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Wallabies vs Wales - Suncorp Stadium June 9

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J

Jiggles

Guest
cyclopath said:
The Tahs front row scrum well. So do some others, but as a unit, less well. You discounted them out of hand, with the grudging exception of Robinson, in favour of "workers". That was the point, it didn't seem so obtuse. If we have seen nothing else of latter years, the need for a solid scrum is paramount. In any event, I never said Palmer et al were poor, I was arguing that the Tahs were not.
As I have stated elsewhere, I would pick Robinson / Moore / Kepu or Palmer depending on what bench they want. Slipper on bench. Not Holmes. Not Alexander, unless he plays LHP only.
Your dismissal of them as woeful is as batty as anything against which you rail. I see you again quote the Tahs win / loss record as a reason their front rowers must be shit. That aspect of the team has been going very well, most others haven't. By your astounding logic, Pocock should be gone (Force are crap), and no Reds players (pre-2009/10) or Brumbies players (last year) should have been picked.
Your bitching about them because of the team they come from, not because of their objective ability.
Enlightened enough, Jiggly?
Click to expand...



Not really. It skims all over all my points, actually.

My clear point, is that the Tah's front row strength does not out weigh the fact that they have been members of a poorly functioning pack. It does not outweigh the fact that despite being marginally better in one component of the game, they are some way behind other provinces in areas of the game that are so much more important. They are not that much better in the scrum, that it justifies their selection to the determent of the Wallabies play around the part. You are being extreme if you think that by not having TPN or Kepu there, that some how we will get demolish like Baxter, Dunning and Shepherdson did, so many time.

That is not my logic at all but since you are trying to justify your obscure posts by brandishing me at a "tah hater" I will respond. The force are crap but Pocock has been performing above and beyond any other of the other options, so what a silly suggestion. That same cannot be said for one member of that Tahs squad. Brumbies players like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and BA got rewarded for poor performance last year, and it carried on into the test matches, the same is happening here with the Tahs. Vickerman and Elsom got rewarded for not even playing. Only Latham, who was so far above any other options, and perhaps Holmes should've gotten a position in the Wallabies squad throughout those shit reds years, and rightly so only those 2 did. Horwill couldn't be justified at the beginning of his career and neither could Rodney Blake when he was picked.

It is just amazing that the Tah players selected are so clearly out of sorts and unfit and yet they can get the equal highest number of players into the train on squad. It is also amazing that fan boys, like yourself, can justify to yourselves that the bulk of an underperforming pack can warrant selection. Thats before we even get started on players like Barnes, Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the backline.

This is a perfect example of what I described as the key fundamental problem of Australian rugby - acceptance and justification of mediocracy and the nepotism that makes this acceptable.
 
C

cardiffcider

Stan Wickham (3)
as a welshman the biggest hang up wales will have is that we have not won in the southern hemisphere big three since 1987 world cup play off game against australia. before that 1969 again against australia so we are overdue a win and saturday looks like being the day not being cocky just crossing my fingers and everthing else. as australia on saturday will be a different side than the one that lost to scotland yesterday. will stick my kneck out and say wales by 9
 
R

RedCard

Peter Burge (5)
Can't say I am that positive about Wales taking this. Priestland needs to find some form again and will have to see what centre partnership we have. Upfront we should be able to create a platform even missing a few first choicers.


It's a massive game first up. I do think there is more pressure on Oz for this one as to take a loss after last weekend will be hard to get over.

Looking forward to seeing both teams now.

Personally, I would have prefered an Oz win against the Scots and to have looked good as I would then know Wales would come out firing as the clear underdog tag sits nicely with us. Being expected to have a chance frightens me as too many bad memories and false dawns.
 
emuarse

emuarse

Desmond Connor (43)
Slim 293 said:
Robinson's workrate around the field has never really been an issue, coupled with excellent scrummaging there is no better loosehead in Australia. No one comes close.

As for Kepu, his scrummaing has been excellent the past couple of years and he would have a higher workrate than Palmer.

You can't put all the Tahs troubles on these 2 guys when there's 15 players on the park and 6 other forwards.

But if we're not going to select players based on their workrate and effectiveness around the breakdown then we'd better cull Sharpe and Higginbotham from this team, as well as a few others.

Also, I wouldn't rate that as the best grunt work from the Wallabies.

That was far from impressive.

And you continue to ridicule Alexander while praising Slipper, which I find odd as they're pretty equal in their abilities. Both good around the field. Not the best scrummagers who can play both sides, but adequate.

Slipper did give away the final penalty.
Click to expand...

That last remark destroyed your entire post - it was ben Alexander who received the credit for the penalty.
 
Riptide

Riptide

Dave Cowper (27)
RedCard said:
Can't say I am that positive about Wales taking this. Priestland needs to find some form again and will have to see what centre partnership we have. Upfront we should be able to create a platform even missing a few first choicers.


It's a massive game first up. I do think there is more pressure on Oz for this one as to take a loss after last weekend will be hard to get over.

Looking forward to seeing both teams now.

Personally, I would have prefered an Oz win against the Scots and to have looked good as I would then know Wales would come out firing as the clear underdog tag sits nicely with us. Being expected to have a chance frightens me as too many bad memories and false dawns.
Click to expand...

Agree about Priestland; he seems a little fragile in that he rarely recovers from a poor start. He is a big unit so he can hit it up but his distribution and kicking game suffer. Still, he brings his runners into the game in a way no other Welsh 10 can. If he is on, and Phillips allows him to dictate play and doesn't overdo his Samson routine at the base, I think Wales take this.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Jiggles said:
Not really. It skims all over all my points, actually.

My clear point, is that the Tah's front row strength does not out weigh the fact that they have been members of a poorly functioning pack. It does not outweigh the fact that despite being marginally better in one component of the game, they are some way behind other provinces in areas of the game that are so much more important. They are not that much better in the scrum, that it justifies their selection to the determent of the Wallabies play around the part. You are being extreme if you think that by not having TPN or Kepu there, that some how we will get demolish like Baxter, Dunning and Shepherdson did, so many time.

That is not my logic at all but since you are trying to justify your obscure posts by brandishing me at a "tah hater" I will respond. The force are crap but Pocock has been performing above and beyond any other of the other options, so what a silly suggestion. That same cannot be said for one member of that Tahs squad. Brumbies players like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and BA got rewarded for poor performance last year, and it carried on into the test matches, the same is happening here with the Tahs. Vickerman and Elsom got rewarded for not even playing. Only Latham, who was so far above any other options, and perhaps Holmes should've gotten a position in the Wallabies squad throughout those shit reds years, and rightly so only those 2 did. Horwill couldn't be justified at the beginning of his career and neither could Rodney Blake when he was picked.

It is just amazing that the Tah players selected are so clearly out of sorts and unfit and yet they can get the equal highest number of players into the train on squad. It is also amazing that fan boys, like yourself, can justify to yourselves that the bulk of an underperforming pack can warrant selection. Thats before we even get started on players like Barnes, Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the backline.

This is a perfect example of what I described as the key fundamental problem of Australian rugby - acceptance and justification of mediocracy and the nepotism that makes this acceptable.
Click to expand...
Last time I'll bother with you. You say you're not a Tah hater, then yet again write off specific players on that basis, again the front row. I am far from a fan boy, but you use that a glib dismissal of my position that , as individuals, the Tah front rowers are good players. Many others who would also not be described as fan boys have Kepu and TPN in their squads, even fans of other teams, believe it or not. I was talking Palmer up last year, when he was derided as a pot plant.
As for the backs, what the fuck has that got to do with a discussion specifically on the front row? Clearly you can't separate your dislike of NSW from rational discussion of good players. That was my abundantly clear point about Pocock - of course no-one will ignore him, despite the Force. Neither should we ignore other good players.
 
kronic

kronic

John Solomon (38)
Looks like mass changes after all
Wallabies changes loom as as Robbie Deans regroups

WALLABIES coach Robbie Deans is set to make mass changes for the first Test against Wales in Brisbane on Saturday night after the team's shock loss to Scotland .

Almost half of the line-up that started in the 9-6 loss to Scotland in Newcastle on Tuesday night is expected to go.

The front row of James Slipper, Stephen Moore and Dan Palmer, blindside flanker Dave Dennis, centres Mike Harris and Anthony Fainga'a and fullback Luke Morahan are likely to be benched or omitted from the 22-man squad altogether.

Moore, who got through a huge amount of work against Scotland, may need a rest on the bench, while the in-form Dennis may also be rotated.

Deans was always going to make changes because of the scheduling of two Tests in five days, which were preceded by a round of Super Rugby.

Several Brumbies, NSW Waratahs and Melbourne Rebels players were omitted from the Scotland Test because they played last weekend, while the Queensland Reds and Western Force had byes.

The Waratahs front row of Benn Robinson, Tatafu Polota-Nau and Sekope Kepu is expected to start along with NSW number eight Wycliff Palu.

In the backs, Waratahs utilityAdam Ashley-Cooper is expected to start at fullback with Pat McCabe (Brumbies) and Rob Horne (Waratahs) coming into the midfield.

Of this group, only Ashley-Cooper and McCabe were part of the 22-man squad against Scotland, but they did not play.

"There will be fresh legs, but we can't bring totally fresh legs," Deans said. "There's a significant number of the group who will have to back up, who will have to recover first.

"So we have a conundrum of recovery for those blokes, but also preparation for the weekend. That's going to be a bit of a juggling act and it will affect how we prepare.

"Adapting to that is going to be important, but also making sure we have some progress around those elements of cohesion that were evidently lacking."

Deans was happy with the performances of rookie winger Joe Tomane and second-rower Sitaleki Timani so it is likely they will retain their places in the run-on side.

"They were trying conditions for a winger," Deans said. "He (Tomane) looked to get involved and his impacts were good.

"Timani, in difficult conditions for a forward, was accurate, his frame was evident and he was effective around the contact."

The other second-row spot does not seem as clear-cut with Deans having to make a tough choice between veteran Nathan Sharpe and Rob Simmons.

One change Deans emphatically ruled out was recalling Quade Cooper to replace Berrick Barnes, who is probably the fifth-ranked five-eighth at present behind the injured James O'Connor, Kurtley Beale, Christian Lealiifano and Cooper.

Even though Cooper has played 120 minutes of Super Rugby for Queensland after returning from knee surgery, Deans said he was not ready to play Test rugby.

"There's no chance of that because it would be negligent," Deans said. "He's not ready and he understands that. It's not worth the risk because you could compromise not only him in the long run but also us."

Deans anticipated Wales would devise tactics to take advantage of the fact the Wallabies would be playing their second Test in five days.

"The Welsh play a distinct style of game so it will be a different contest," he said. "It wouldn't surprise me if the Welsh, in the knowledge we have had to play two games already this week ... adapt their tactics to make the most of that."

Asked whether he thought the Welsh would attack the Wallabies through the forwards, Deans said: "That's what Saturday's all about. Finding out."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...e-deans-regroups/story-e6frg7o6-1226386741218
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RedsHappy

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
The piece in today's The Australian by Wayne Smith was far more revealing.

And IIRC a genuine first: a Growden piece doubting Deans, one for the framer. ARU just might be preparing the ground.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
AlexH said:
I am a little confused as to why Deans would pick Horne ahead of Fainga'a.
Click to expand...
I can only guess because he sees Fainga'a and McCabe as too similar? That's my guess. Horne has looked better in recent weeks, as opposed to his very quiet form in the first 6-8 weeks of the Super 15. He'll need to watch his rush up defence, as Wales are no mugs in midfield. Gotta make his tackles stick. Fainga'a a little unlucky.
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
qwerty51 said:
Horne is a better attacker. Simple really.



Pretty sure it was Slipper on the loosehead side.
Click to expand...

I stopped paying attention in the last few minutes of the match but all reports Ive read, including on this site, attribute the penalty to Slipper...
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I'm really surprised Pyle isn't getting a look in.

Given the article above (and really, there were always going to be lots of changes to the side for the 1st Wales test), I expect to see this team announced.

1. Robinson
2. TPN
3. Kepu
4. Timani (disagree with this one)
5. Sharpe
6. Higginbotham
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Barnes
11. Ioane
12. McCabe
13. Horne
14. Tomane
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

16. Moore
17. Palmer or Alexander
18. Simmons
19. Dennis
20. Hooper/McCalman or a back (possibly Fainga'a)
21. White or Phipps
22. Lucas or another utility player.
 
Sully

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
So the plan, if I'm reading correctly, is to replace one of the best defenders and counter ruckers with the player with about the most missed tackles in Super rugby. And this is for his attacking abilities? Against a backline where every player is over 100 Kgs and a team that's just won the 6 nations.

Have I for that right?


Sent using Tapatalk on a very old phone
 
Viking

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
On form Fainga does deserve a spot over Horne. But when u look at it we are playing our 5 choice flyhalf? We need all the attacking threats we can get. Fainga doesnt offer this. He a defensive king, zero attack. Horne at least offers a little threat on attack. With any other Flyhalf Id have Fainga.
 
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