Wallabies Watch

[Lee Grant]

Agree Lindommer - I would be a happy camper also.

"A defender" with the 13 jersey means different things to different people. To some it means "making his tackles"; to others it is "being in position to make the tackles then making the tackles"; to others it is all of the above plus "directing players near him to do the above so that he is available to tackle a support player."

Good outside centres have to have a good idea of the yin and yang of outside back defence to go with similar issues on attack.

It is rare that an outside centre acquires both to a high level, and that is why O'Driscoll is so well regarded, even now.

Folau has a bit of a journey to acquire the defensive skills of a rugby union outside centre - if he ever can.

We have to wish him well.
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[Brumby Runner]

My Wallabies 22 for the first Lions test would be:-
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Horwill
5. Douglas
6. Mowen
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Genia
10.Cooper
11.Ioane
12.Taps
13.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14.O'Connor
15. Beale


16. TPN
17. Robinson
18. Slipper
19. Timani
20. Hooper
21. Dennis
22. White
23. Mitchell

If its a 5:3 split id go with

16. TPN
17. Palmer
18. Slipper
19. MMM
20. Hooper
21. White
22. McCabe
23. Mitchell

I'd like to see how the season plays out before the flyhalf position is locked down. An in-form cooper is obviously the best case scenerio, but im open to the idea of O'Connor playing at 10 if he shines there for the Rebels.

If Palu is out injured i go with

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Horwill
5. Timani
6. MMM
7. Pocock
8. Mowen

plenty of aggression in that pack and three genuine lineout options

I simply cannot agree with Benny A playing tighthead. And with two props on the bench for test matches, there is no reason for him to ever play that side again. Benn R and Benny A are the best loose heads and should start according to who is in best form at the time. Ditto Slipper and Palmer for tighthead. My next cab off the rank would be Holmes if any of the above are injured.

I have been saying for some time that Palu is no longer our best No 8. He is injury prone, and it has been a long time since he was destructive in attack. But I do expect to see him in Deans' team.

I would also not put Sita Timani in as lock until he learns to be an effective lineout option. There are many better options around today, namely Pyle, Douglas, Neville, Jones, Fardy and Carter (probably even Simmonds on last week's display).

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Long time observer, first time commentor.

I can't help but notice 80% of people suggesting teams have Cooper as the first choice 5/8th. Do people genuinely believe that he will be a walk up start in a team coached by Robbie Deans? I remain sceptical and think he has A LOT to prove to his team mates, the ARU, the coaching staff and the rugby community.

Appologies if this has been raised in another post - but I feel it is applicable here.

Here is my 23 for the Lion series (based on a mix between the form of 3 rounds, current injuries and incumbents).

1. Benn Robinson: Cheika dropping Fat Cat in the first round has proven t be a master stroke. He has realised he is a disposable commoditu and has raised his game. Need to continue this strong form.
2. Stephen Moore: The most consistent hooker we have, strong at the set peice and a cattle-dog around the park.
3. Dan Palmer: Tighhead is a hotly contested position with Alexander, Kepu, Palmer and Ryan all there or there abouts. Palmer's form for the ponies has been strong, and I'd prefer not to play Alexander out of position.
4. James Horwill: Yes, this is somewhat of a punt. He needs to get back to full fitness and prove his worth in a handfull of Super games.
5. Kane Douglas: I quite like the balance of a Horwill / Douglas second row. It provides grunt at the set peice and aggression around the field. Others worth considering include Jones, Pyle, Fardy and MMM. However, with National experience, Douglas gets the nod.
6. Scott Higginbotham: No sold here. There is a raft of quality players coming through in the likes of Angus Cotteral and Ed Quirk... not to menton the dream comeback of MMM or Smith. However, again, this is a lions series and you want to g with a bloke with a track record. Yes, a track record of sea-gulling, but a track record none the less.
7. David Pocock (Captain): Yes, Gill and Hooper are breathing down his neck - but BAM BAM is BAM BAM, the heart and soul of the pack. Respected by his team mates and feared by the opposition.
8. Ben Mowen: Hard and abbrasive.... he's served a long apprenticeship and I think this mature player would thrive in the national colours. Yes, I debated Cliffy. but he hasn't really proved too much recently.
9. Will Genia: Same as Horwill, needs to get back ASAP and prove himself. If not, White is a ready made understudy.
10. Kurtley Beale: Okay, let the debate begin. Yes, he plays his best football at 15. However, he is the inbumbent, Cooper needs to do alot to prove himself, JOC (James O'Connor) is better served out wide (will be interesting to see how he goes at 10 for the Rebs) and I like the look of Lilo and To'omua... but both untested.
11. Digby Ioane: Walk up start in most international sides. Give him a roving commission.
12. Ben Tapuai: The merits of Lilo vs Taps can be argued till the cows come home. Taps gets the nod on previous national experience.
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper): I would love to see Paddy McCabe get a run at 13 for the Ponies. I reckon it would be his best position. However, that is all pie in the sky for now, and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) gets it as the incumbent.
14: Jesse Mogg: This is my gamble. Yes he can be a little fragile in D. Yes, he is untested. Do I think he will get a run? Probably not. BUT he is one of the most exciting prospects running around this years Super competition and I think he could make a fine national winger.
15. James O'Connor: Little extra space at the back and given a roving commission to pop up at first receiver and further out wide, could be very damaging. Also given kicking duties.

16. TPN: Next best after Moore. Solid impact player to bring on with 20 to go.
17. Ben Alexander: Plays his best football at loosehead. Bring him on for Fat Cat after 50 mins.
18. Paddy Ryan: Currently shading Sekope for my mind.
19. Hugh MMM: Verstile enough to cover lock and 6.
20. Gill / Hooper: Flip a coin.
21. White: He's done enough to prove he is above Phipps in the pecking order.
22. Christian Lilo: Can cover 10 and 12.
23: Honey Badger / Paddy McCabe: Abbrasive and fast utility back. Take your pick.

 

[Lindommer]

I simply cannot agree with Benny A playing tighthead. And with two props on the bench for test matches, there is no reason for him to ever play that side again. Benn R and Benny A are the best looseheads and should start according to who is in best form at the time. Ditto Slipper and Palmer for tighthead.

Agree, BR, and it's pertinent to note here their provincial coaches aren't doing the Ws (and them) much favour by not giving them enough game time on their test-selected sides.

We wonder why NH critics don't rate our scrum when we don't play our props in their test positions. This is where NZ's central contracting would be handy in Oz: Alexander should declare what side he wants to play, and if it's THP he'd be moved. Same for Slipper. The days of ambidextrous props are surely numbered with the advent of 23 man squads.

 

[barbarian]

Welcome to the forum Rex, great first post.

I would only disagree with two selections-

- I'd have Palu over Mowen. I think people are getting a little bit carried away with Mowen at the moment. For some reason he is one of those players it is really fashionable to like, whereas Cliffy is the exact opposite. I think Mowen is a good player but I haven't seen anything to make me believe he is an international quality 8. I'd have him on the bench where he can cover 6 and 8. As for Palu, he is our only genuine international 8. Has the ball-running ability I don't think Mowen has (ie the ability to break tackles, get over the gain line and offload in contact), plus I still remember the Wales series where he lead both the tackle and run counts every game despite playing only 60-70 minutes.

- I'd have Barnes at fullback, with JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing in place of Mogg. Barnes was a real steadying influence at 15 for us last season, and is so solid under the high ball. We played a lot better with him there, plus he can step into 10 to take the pressure off Beale. Plus I worry about fielding a Mogg-JOC (James O'Connor)-Ioane back three against the Lions.
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[Braveheart81]

@Try-ranosaurus Rex - I agree with a lot of your choices. I too would put Mogg on the wing if he continues his superb form (and realistically his form needs to remain incredible for him to be a shot). More likely, I think JOC (James O'Connor) will play on that wing and Barnes will play at fullback.

I would also play Beale at 10 and think he is the current front-runner for the position (even with missing the next month). I think Cooper is more likely to be on the bench if he is in the team. I think his form needs to be compelling for him to regain the 10 jersey for the Lions tour. He certainly hasn't shown that in his first three games.

I wouldn't discount Palu at 8 for the Wallabies. He's out this weekend with an ankle injury, but he'll presumably be back the week after. In the last couple of years he's provided more go forward from 8 than any other option we've played. On current form I think we could see Mowen displace Higgers and Dennis for the 6 jersey if his form continues (and again, his form will need to remain head and shoulders ahead of both of them to push two incumbents out of the way).

 

[BDA]

I simply cannot agree with Benny A playing tighthead. And with two props on the bench for test matches, there is no reason for him to ever play that side again. Benn R and Benny A are the best loose heads and should start according to who is in best form at the time. Ditto Slipper and Palmer for tighthead. My next cab off the rank would be Holmes if any of the above are injured.

I have been saying for some time that Palu is no longer our best No 8. He is injury prone, and it has been a long time since he was destructive in attack. But I do expect to see him in Deans' team.

I would also not put Sita Timani in as lock until he learns to be an effective lineout option. There are many better options around today, namely Pyle, Douglas, Neville, Jones, Fardy and Carter (probably even Simmonds on last week's display).

^ I agree that Benny A is a better loose head but I think he played quite well at tighthead last year.

Originally I thought I'd opt for an all brumbies front row (Palmer at tighthead) and then have the Tahs combination of Robinson/TPN come on in the second half. I'd be happy with that. We'd benefit from established combinations and it would probably be our best option in terms of competing in the scrums. But the more I thought about it I came to the conclusion that it is difficult to keep our best loosehead (Robinson) on the bench, nor would I want Alexander on the bench. It is hard to justify starting Palmer in front of Ben A. Palmer had been better this year in open play, but BenA is a much more dynamic player in attack and defence.

Re Palu, I disagree. Palu is one of the few guys in the Wallabies set up that always gets over the advantage line and gives some sting in defence. I don’t think we have to discard Timani either. He offers a similar skill set to Palu. Both are very physical and neither is a genuine line-out option. As long as we don’t have them both on the field at the same time im fine with both. My approach would be to sub timani on around the same time as Palu is subbed off. When you bring on Timani, replace Palu with a guy like MMM, Mowen, Dennis, McCalman and you’ve lost nothing at lineout time.

 

[Richo]

I think it'll be tougher than usual to dislodge anyone with test experience for the Lions tour. Obviously the team shouldn't be too conservative, but it's the most important rugby event in Australia since 2003 and the pressure on players, coaches and administrators will be intense. I could certainly see someone like Mowen, who is a provincial captain and a veteran player, getting a shot at a weak position like 6, where neither Dennis nor Higgers have shone. The Wallabies are more spoiled for choice in outside backs and are, I would guess, more likely to go for balance and experience -- some mix of Digby, JOC (James O'Connor), Barnes and Beale seems about right, at least in the 15.

 

[Braveheart81]

I thought Benny A showed he had improved massively in the scrum in 2012. I think he shaded both Slipper and Kepu in that department last year.

Dan Palmer would have played more test rugby last year if he hadn't got injured. He is obviously a massive asset in the scrum but most of the other options (well, all of the other options) beat him around the field. He needs a big year to show that he deserves a spot in our top four props come test time.

Paddy Ryan is also set for a big season if he can stay fit. I think he will pass Kepu this season as the Tahs best THP (on form after two games, he already has, but you can't say that is a permanent thing at this point).

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Braveheart. I agree wholeheartedly with you analysis of my team.

Frankly, I think Barnes at fullback would provide stability and for internationals JOC (James O'Connor)'s best position is probably wing. However, I really like the idea of an out and out flyer (like Mogg) on the wing. I guess I see shades of Roff or Latham in him. Obviously, he has a lot to prove over the course of the next couple of months even to be considered for selection.

In regards to Palu, I agree to some extent. I guess I just want more from him. He has hardly delivered to his potential for a while. While he does bend lines, I can hardly remember the last time he broke one... and I'd love to see a little more hunger and intent from him. He seemingly just plods along from time to time. Moral of the story is I'd like to see more from him.

I know Mowen is far from a walk up start for the WB's an needs to prove himself consistently for the next two months.... BUT he is a fantastic line-out operator, a leader and above all a blood hard worker. For this I could see him as an international 6.

 

[BDA]

I think it'll be tougher than usual to dislodge anyone with test experience for the Lions tour. Obviously the team shouldn't be too conservative, but it's the most important rugby event in Australia since 2003 and the pressure on players, coaches and administrators will be intense. I could certainly see someone like Mowen, who is a provincial captain and a veteran player, getting a shot at a weak position like 6, where neither Dennis nor Higgers have shone. The Wallabies are more spoiled for choice in outside backs and are, I would guess, more likely to go for balance and experience -- some mix of Digby, JOC (James O'Connor), Barnes and Beale seems about right, at least in the 15.

I think MMM is one player that will walk into the squad. He is a great option for us.

 

[barbarian]

With reasonable and intelligent opinions like that you won't last long here Rex I'm afraid

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

With reasonable and intelligent opinions like that you won't last long here Rex I'm afraid

We'll see about that... I can be as deluded as the next bloke.

 

[Braveheart81]

The biggest problem Mogg has in regards to getting a gig on the wing against the Lions is that the two likely wingers he'll face are Tim Visser and George North.

We really need good defenders on the wing to face those guys.

 

[Richo]

I think MMM is one player that will walk into the squad. He is a great option for us.

Agreed. Even though he's not an incumbent, MMM kinda makes my point. He's got 20-odd caps already, played in a RWC, etc.

 

[fatprop]

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Palmer
4. Horwill
5. Douglas
6. MMM
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Taps
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. O'Connor
15. Beale

16. TPN
17. Alexander
18. Slipper
19. Dennis
20. Mowen
21. Hooper
22. White
23. McCabe/Mogg (strike or defense - dunno)

Our best scrummaging front row, big athletic locks, a back row to smash
Athleticism & workrate off the bench as the game opens up

 

[wamberal]

Our best scrummaging front row, big athletic locks, a back row to smash
Athleticism & workrate off the bench as the game opens up

I would like to see one bigger unit for the lock/6/8 bench than either Dennis or Mowen. A lot depends on how fit and durable Palu and Horwill are, but if either goes down early, we might be in big trouble against what will be a very big Lions pack.

Maybe Timani, he could potentially be a match-winner in the last quarter of a Test.

 

[Dumbledore]

The biggest problem Mogg has in regards to getting a gig on the wing against the Lions is that the two likely wingers he'll face are Tim Visser and George North.

We really need good defenders on the wing to face those guys.

Mogg's tackling last year was disgraceful. Ended up with a completion rate of something like 55%. That's the side of his game that has to improve. There's a lot of competition for the wing spots as well. Fitting Digby, Speight, Tomane, Mitchell, Shipperly, Cummins and JOC (James O'Connor) into two spots isn't the easiest thing in the world.

 

[wamberal]

This is going to be the year of the big winger.

 

[Slim 293]

Deans played a winger during the Welsh series who couldn't tackle, was awful under the high ball, couldnt kick, and yet had less attacking capabilities than Mogg.........

So there's hope for the boy.........