Wallaby 10 debate

[Yoda]

**disclaimer*, below comment is all with the aim of winning the home world cup in 2027.

A seperate discussion id like to hear the forum's view on is whether Aus. should be aiming to win in 2027 (and make the necessary changes in the team at flyhalf to do so, or whether we as supporters should be content with a knock-out stage exit i.e. top 8?).

Interested to hear what games / attributes you've seen of Donaldson that is deserving of this status as top 2 flyhalf in Aus?
I get we're short of 10's but I'd suggest that means RA need to source elsewhere rather than hammering away at players who will never cut it on the world stage. I dont think this mantra applies for every position, but interested to hear of examples where flyhalves who seriously underperformed at Super Rugby level (let alone internationally even against 2nd-tier nations (e.g. Georgia, Fiji, Wales) in the early stages of their career and went on to dominate later on?

I've said it before but if we want to have any hope of winning the world cup, donaldson will simply not cut it. We haven't seen enough of Carter in recent times but he is certainly the best we have but absolutely not Donaldson or Edmed.

Suggest Lynagh is number 2 option in Aus notwithstanding he has serious concerns surrounding his head knocks

I will just to wait to see how all fly halves perform next year, including young Meredith at the Brumbies. That is when we'll see who is the best performing, as no one has stood out as yet. Not one. I don't think it has helped playing a very predictable attack plan set by Schmidt though.

 

[Hogan]

None of our 10’s are world class. Although Lolesio has at times performed well at Test level. All our playmakers have displayed their class at Super Rugby level…but none consistently. It’s unlikely that other candidates will force their way into Wallabies contention over the next two years. So whoever performs the best in season 2026 and 2027 between Gordon, Lynagh, Donaldson, Edmed (and Lolesio and possibly O’Connor) will get the WC gig in ‘27. I expect them all to improve over the next 2 years as they gain more experience and consistency in the 10 jersey.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I will just to wait to see how all fly halves perform next year, including young Meredith at the Brumbies. That is when we'll see who is the best performing, as no one has stood out as yet. Not one. I don't think it has helped playing a very predictable attack plan set by Schmidt though.

Yoda, are you under a misapprehension about Declan Meredith? He is not a yougster coming through the pathways. He is older and more mature as a player than Donno, Edmed, Gordon, Lolesio and Lynagh. It is a black mark, imo, against the Brumbies coaching staff that he hasn't got more exposure over the past 2 - 3 years, but Bernie Larkham had almost absolute belief in Noah being a world class No 10. Meredith's extra maturity at this crucial time is just another positive in his armory.

 

[LeCheese]

He is older and more mature as a player than Donno, Edmed, Gordon, Lolesio and Lynagh.

Fact check wrt 'older' - Meredith, Lolesio, and Donno were all born in '99, with Donno in fact being 3mo older than Meredith.

Super keen to hear about how you're quantifying 'maturity', however.

 

[Yoda]

Yoda, are you under a misapprehension about Declan Meredith? He is not a yougster coming through the pathways. He is older and more mature as a player than Donno, Edmed, Gordon, Lolesio and Lynagh. It is a black mark, imo, against the Brumbies coaching staff that he hasn't got more exposure over the past 2 - 3 years, but Bernie Larkham had almost absolute belief in Noah being a world class No 10. Meredith's extra maturity at this crucial time is just another positive in his armory.

I actually didn't know his age BR. Le cheese has pointed out he's similar in age to Noah and Ben. I guess with Noah backed by Wallaby coaches, he was getting preferred at Brumby rugby but I have thought on the limited times I have seen him play that he is very capable and that Noah was definitely not streets ahead of him by any means. It's what I think about all our options including JOC (James O'Connor). No one is standing out on a consistent basis to be our first choice.

 

[Wobblies2027]

How did the brums perform when Meredith was at the helm? vs Noah starting at 10?
Agree he is pretty to watch and looks as though he has time with ball in hand (one of the great attributes of any strong flyhalf)

 

[Dctarget]

With the reporting at the Reds, I wouldn't be surprised to see our preferred flyhalf, Gordon, play Super at inside centre and our preferred outside play Super at fullback.

 

[Strewthcobber]

How did the brums perform when Meredith was at the helm? vs Noah starting at 10?
Agree he is pretty to watch and looks as though he has time with ball in hand (one of the great attributes of any strong flyhalf)

Just looking at the numbers.....

Meredith has only played significant minutes (> 30mins) 5 times at Super Rugby level, so very small sample size, but it included some good wins - Blues away and Reds at home, although they were losing by a couple of points when he went off against the Blues.

Lolesio has by far the best record of any 10 in consideration, having played 77 times for the Brumbies and won >70% of them over the years.

It's a good system at the Brums!

 

[Wobblies2027]

Yeah wow, those are some telling stats!

 

[Major Tom]

Just looking at the numbers.....

Meredith has only played significant minutes (> 30mins) 5 times at Super Rugby level, so very small sample size, but it included some good wins - Blues away and Reds at home, although they were losing by a couple of points when he went off against the Blues.

Lolesio has by far the best record of any 10 in consideration, having played 77 times for the Brumbies and won >70% of them over the years.

It's a good system at the Brums!

That win against the Blues played out with Beuden Barrett going off with a broken hand. He was destroying the Brumbs before he got injured.
Meredith is a handy player but the sample size is far too small for him to be considered for the wallabies.

 

[Slim 293]

That win against the Blues played out with Beuden Barrett going off with a broken hand. He was destroying the Brumbs before he got injured.

That's not really how it played out...

 

[Major Tom]

That's not really how it played out...

Ok. Explain how it played out? I must have misremembered how Barrett was cutting the brumbies to shreds, then broke his hand just before half time and didn’t return. Brumbs won by a point. Not suggesting Meredith didn’t play well btw.

 

[Slim 293]

Ok. Explain how it played out? I must have misremembered how Barrett was cutting the brumbies to shreds, then broke his hand just before half time and didn’t return. Brumbs won by a point. Not suggesting Meredith didn’t play well btw.

Barrett scored a good individual try for the Blues' first...

Scores were levelled until just a few minutes before half time when the Blues scored two quick tries which Barrett had no involvement in, and in which he missed both conversions...

Barrett left the field just after half time.

 

[Major Tom]

Barrett scored a good individual try for the Blues' first...

Scores were levelled until just a few minutes before half time when the Blues scored two quick tries which Barrett had no involvement in, and in which he missed both conversions...

Barrett left the field just after half time.

On top of the stats you mentioned.
Barrett:
- 8 runs (65m)
- 5 defenders beaten
- 2 clean breaks
- 1 offload
- no handling errors, 3/3 tackles

Bar the missed conversion and pen he was having about as good a game as you can possibly have until he came off!
You don’t wish injuries on players but the brumbies would have been thankful he didn’t come back on.

 

[LevitatingSocks]

With the reporting at the Reds, I wouldn't be surprised to see our preferred flyhalf, Gordon, play Super at inside centre and our preferred outside play Super at fullback.

I question if it's better to have Wallabies playing outside their position in Super Rugby when they could be at their position in Japan or France. Can see both sides of it though.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I always wonder if this stuff matters at all, or is it just managing talent - if you don't have it, then you don't have it?

Sascha Feinberg Mngomezulu has played 10 for his URC side, the Stormers, nine times total in his career so far and he's the #1 player in the world according to Rugbypass

 

[Yoda]

With the reporting at the Reds, I wouldn't be surprised to see our preferred flyhalf, Gordon, play Super at inside centre and our preferred outside play Super at fullback.

Yes. Gordon could play at 12 or 15 along with his best position at 10. While Tiny Tom would only really be able to play at 10. He has no real pace to fill in at 15. I suspect Carter won't be 10 due to this, which would be disappointing for the Wallabies. You need to play plenty of games at 10 to get better...

 

[Major Tom]

Yes. Gordon could play at 12 or 15 along with his best position at 10. While Tiny Tom would only really be able to play at 10. He has no real pace to fill in at 15. I suspect Carter won't be 10 due to this, which would be disappointing for the Wallabies. You need to play plenty of games at 10 to get better...

They will both share the position mate. I think Carter will just be on the bench because he can play multiple positions. Don’t know why you’re disappointed, you don’t rate lynagh’s chances of staying injury free so by your thinking Carter is gonna be the starting 10.

 

[Slim 293]

On top of the stats you mentioned.
Barrett:
- 8 runs (65m)
- 5 defenders beaten
- 2 clean breaks
- 1 offload
- no handling errors, 3/3 tackles

Bar the missed conversion and pen he was having about as good a game as you can possibly have until he came off!
You don’t wish injuries on players but the brumbies would have been thankful he didn’t come back on.

Yeah, I think some of those stats can be attributed to that early try he scored in the game…

But ultimately I think you’re giving him too much credit in his overall influence of the game in the first half.

 

[Major Tom]

Yeah, I think some of those stats can be attributed to that early try he scored in the game…

But ultimately I think you’re giving him too much credit in his overall influence of the game in the first half.

Righto. I only went to the stats because I was going off my recollection of the game. Which was that Barrett was playing very very well. Then he broke his hand and the Brumbs won by a point in the end. Correlation ain’t causation and all that. And any win at eden park is not to be sneezed at but I definitely feel that injury had some impact on this game.