Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[rugbywatch]

M
No speight?
Thought Jones given lock and 6

M
No speight?
Thought Jones given lock and 6

Completely forgot about Jones. I think the wingers are going to be the hardest for selectors to choose. So many quality wingers currently

 

[TOCC]

If you pick Giteau in the squad as the 3rd halfback you're not expecting him to play halfback unless there's an injury 48 hours before a Test. Even then he will be on the bench and might only get a couple mins or none. You'd expect the 2 halfbacks to make every 23. Nic White will be in France during the RWC and if there's an injury you can just bring him in. A RWC spot would be wasted on a 3rd halfback who shouldn't play.

Well you left out a key component of the replacement rule which is that any replacement made to the World Cup squad is permanent. If for example Nick Phipps pulls up with an injury during the pool stages and it has a 7 day recovery time frame, Cheika would be forced to permanently swap out Phipps for White or risk having Giteau as the reserve halfback for 2 games..

3 halfbacks offers redundancy, but it also chews up a position.. There is merit in going either 2 or 3 halfbacks.


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[Brumby Runner]

Funny though how the scrum held together when Kepu is at prop

But not last year as soon as Will Skelton came on as a replacement. Kepu had as much trouble holding the TH side as Ben did with Skelton and Hooper behind him.

Absolutely chuffed at Skelton's scrummaging this year.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I thought the idea of JOC (James O'Connor) playing/covering 10 was lambasted from pillar to post.

In such a critical position don't you actually want your back up option to have played there. If there are injuries you bring in another player that plays there.

Precisely. Couldn't agree more. JOC (James O'Connor) does not cover 10 anywhere near adequately. 10 will be covered by Foley, Quade and Matt To'omua and maybe Christian Lealiifano if he gets the nod for the squad. Consideration as a utility should only be in relation to positions 12, 13, 11, 14 and 15. I'd have Horne any day over both Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) at 12, 13 and wing, and I'd also be content with Foley covering 15. If another utility player is needed and it becomes a choice between Beale and JOC (James O'Connor), then I'd prefer JOC (James O'Connor) for his more reliable defense.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The Genia vs Phipps debate highlights one thing- Nic White is really in danger of missing the plane for the RWC.

I think his form has dropped off a fair bit from where it was earlier this year. He was poor against the Bulls, particularly in the last 10 minutes where he made a number of errors. I wonder if he is worth the risk at International level, the gap between his good things and bad things is so much wider than Phipps and Genia.
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I'd really like someone to make a "the Good, the Bad, the Ugly of Nic White" post. His form atm is not so bad, but he does do some ugly things and at times looks bad.

The good encompasses speed to the breakdown where he is equal or second to Phipps, his reading of the game where he is the best of the halfbacks imo or at least equal with Genia, his passing which is again at least as accurate or better than his competition, and unquestionably his line kicking on penalty, where he is far and away the best of the No 9s. He gets heavily criticised here for the times he misses touch trying for a 40 - 50m territory gain like at the end of the Bulls game, but he regularly peels off huge amounts of ground and the occasional miss kick can be tolerated. He is also more willing than either of Phipps or Genia to join a ruck to protect possession if there is a shortage of available forwards. His cover defense is as good as Phipps' and Genia's and he is more adept at bringing down large forwards in one-on-one defense than the others.

The bad is highlighted by his box kicks which almost never achieve the desired effect.

The ugly comes out with his incessant chirping (although show me a half back who doesn't).

 

[Brumby Runner]

My 31-Man Wallaby Squad (thoughts, concerns or players missing welcome)

1. James Slipper
2. Stephen Moore
3. Sekope Kepu
4. Will Skelton
5. James Horwill
6. David Pocock
7. Michael Hooper
8. Scott Higginbotham
9. Will Genia
10. Quade Cooper
11. Drew Mitchell
12. Matt To'omua
13. Tevita Kuridrani
14. Adam Ashley Cooper
15. Israel Folau
RESERVES
16. James Hanson
17. Ben Alexander
18. Scott Sio
19. Sam Carter (Depending on Injury)
20. Sean McMahon
21. Nick Phipps
22. Bernard Foley
23. Matt Giteau
REST OF SQUAD
24. Pek Cowan
25. Tatafu Polota-Nau
26. Rob Simmons/Adam Coleman/ Scott Fardy
27. Liam Gill
28. Nic White
29-31 out of: Christian Lealiifano, Kurtley Beale, James O'Connor, Samu Kerevi

Well, the stand out problem is only two wingers in the whole squad.

 

[barbarian]

I'd really like someone to make a "the Good, the Bad, the Ugly of Nic White" post. His form atm is not so bad, but he does do some ugly things and at times looks bad.

The good encompasses speed to the breakdown where he is equal or second to Phipps, his reading of the game where he is the best of the halfbacks imo or at least equal with Genia, his passing which is again at least as accurate or better than his competition, and unquestionably his line kicking on penalty, where he is far and away the best of the No 9s. He gets heavily criticised here for the times he misses touch trying for a 40 - 50m territory gain like at the end of the Bulls game, but he regularly peels off huge amounts of ground and the occasional miss kick can be tolerated. He is also more willing than either of Phipps or Genia to join a ruck to protect possession if there is a shortage of available forwards. His cover defense is as good as Phipps' and Genia's and he is more adept at bringing down large forwards in one-on-one defense than the others.

The bad is highlighted by his box kicks which almost never achieve the desired effect.

The ugly comes out with his incessant chirping (although show me a half back who doesn't).

But see it's this that sums it up. It's not necessarily the swings in form, it's the bad decisions at key times. The Brumbies were only up by 6 in the dying stages of the game. Finding touch was crucial, as you couldn't give the Bulls a sniff.

He missed touch. Which was one of about four errors he made in the last 15 minutes.
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[Pusser]

But see it's this that sums it up. It's not necessarily the swings in form, it's the bad decisions at key times. The Brumbies were only up by 6 in the dying stages of the game. Finding touch was crucial, as you couldn't give the Bulls a sniff.

He missed touch. Which was one of about four errors he made in the last 15 minutes.
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Yes but it was the Captains choice to go long to try for a maul and 4th try according to Larkham on the Radio. If you try for extra length then errors can happen. In other words it was not his bad decision. We just had a failure of execution.

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[Joe Blow]

You've completely missed the point.

JOC (James O'Connor) is a first choice outside back. You weaken one of those positions by moving him. 10 is already weakened by your first choice player being injured. So regardless, you are weaker at 10.

If you have a great player to slot in at fullback or the wing, it's no loss. If you don't you weaken to positions significantly.

Your hypothetical makes no sense, as you are talking about 2 players who both play 10 as a first choice (though one normally plays 12) being fullbacks. They are not.

I don't think JOC (James O'Connor) is a first choice outside back or a first choice reserve. I imagine that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will prove to be the first choice bench back as long as he is not required at 13 to start.
The out and out wingers on Aussie soil are going pretty well and JOC (James O'Connor) is a fair way down the pecking order and then there is Drew Mitchell.
JOC (James O'Connor) is not regarded as a test 12, or any kind of 12 so far. His positions are back 3 or 10 and he isn't even close to test selection in any of those.
Drew Mitchell, if chosen, is a much better prospect at 15 should Folau go down.

 

[No4918]

When did Mitchell last play 15? He has played one game in the last 2 years that has people excited. Before that game, many of those saying he wasn't close are now his biggest fans.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Joe Blow I was talking about in the context of the Reds.

 

[Dave Beat]

Well, the stand out problem is only two wingers in the whole squad.

That would not be a problem if Rugbywatch was a forward - who needs backs

 

[Dave Beat]

Precisely. Couldn't agree more. JOC (James O'Connor) does not cover 10 anywhere near adequately. 10 will be covered by Foley, Quade and Matt To'omua and maybe Christian Lealiifano if he gets the nod for the squad. Consideration as a utility should only be in relation to positions 12, 13, 11, 14 and 15. I'd have Horne any day over both Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) at 12, 13 and wing, and I'd also be content with Foley covering 15. If another utility player is needed and it becomes a choice between Beale and JOC (James O'Connor), then I'd prefer JOC (James O'Connor) for his more reliable defense.

Forgot Horne was a 12, that option adds allot more versatility.
He hasnt stood out this year as much this year but Godwin has now played 10 / 12 / 13

 

[Braveheart81]

When did Mitchell last play 15? He has played one game in the last 2 years that has people excited. Before that game, many of those saying he wasn't close are now his biggest fans.

He was picked at 15 for Toulon at least once in the last couple of months.

 

[Viking]

If you pick Giteau in the squad as the 3rd halfback you're not expecting him to play halfback unless there's an injury 48 hours before a Test. Even then he will be on the bench and might only get a couple mins or none. You'd expect the 2 halfbacks to make every 23. Nic White will be in France during the RWC and if there's an injury you can just bring him in. A RWC spot would be wasted on a 3rd halfback who shouldn't play.

Like @TOCC mentioned. A swap would be permanent. If their is only a niggling injury to Phipps which would only keep him out of a game or two then you certainly wouldn't want to permanently swap him. Not having 2 half-backs in the starting 23 is a huge risk. If Gits actually had to play we would be mightily screwed. You need 3 in the squad.

I understand you point of view though, it would be very convenient if Gits was used as cover but as much as I'd love for Gits to be able to cover half-back he just isn't capable enough.

 

[Viking]

Forgot Horne was a 12, that option adds allot more versatility.
He hasnt stood out this year as much this year but Godwin has now played 10 / 12 / 13

Yeah I'm actually really liking Horne as cover for:

11, 14 - the in form winger
12 - played heaps of games here - plus his running would be similar to To'omua's, we lose a kicker and a playmaker but our running game would still be the same - If Cooper is 10 then playmaking won't be a problem anyway.
13. Played international here

He covers every position but 9,10. But we got two 10's on the field with To'omua anyway.

 

[BDA]

Re Mitchell, I want to see him in TRC before I determine whether he should by in the squad, let alone the starting side. I have seen barely any Top 14 over the last 2 years and I think it's fair to say he wasn't in anyone's calculations before he "that" game last month.

Also, I'd prefer to see the Australian team take a cautious approach to picking overseas based players. If these new laws are to work (maybe even be further relaxed in future) there should to be a general policy that we should be picking locally based talent, unless there is a clearly a better player available overseas. Simply because the rules give us some flexibility (which is what we need going forward) it doesn't mean that we shouldn't still be rewarding talent that have committed to playing in Australia.

Case and point is George Smith. If he was playing for the Brumbies this season, it would be very hard not to select him. However, we have great local alternatives that can do the job, and clearly have more of a drive to be playing test rugby. Likewise we have plenty of good wingers to choose from (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Speight/Tomane/JOC (James O'Connor)/Horne) and it remains to be seen (at least to me) whether Mitchell is better than those players.

It either Cooper or Foley went down injured, I think you could certainly say that Giteau would clearly be the next best option for Australia and so I could understand his selection in the 23 in those circumstances.

I'm not saying we shouldn't pick the best players from overseas, merely that they need to prove that they are better options than the players we have in Australia already. As has been discussed ad nauseam, that can be a tough task particularly when most people would argue that the standard of talent in Super Rugby is more impressive.

I'd like to see both Giteau and Mitchell come down here for TRC and stake their claim to a jersey. At the moment they're behind the 8-ball.

Also re Skelton's scrummaging, it really remains to be seen how far he's come until we get to TRC. The scrummaging in the world cup will be a whole different beast to Super Rugby scrummaging. There'll be no calls for "use it". England will let the ball sit in the scrum and wait for the Wallabies to crack. We need excellent technique and structure as an 8 to avoid falling apart. Skelton could still be a liability (I hope not).

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think Phipps is well ahead for the style Cheika wants to play. Genia doesn't have the speed to the breakdown to do that at the moment.

And that's exactly the fault in Cheika's coaching which may very well be the Wallabies biggest downfall.

I think Phipps is Australia's best 9. I also have been very critical of Genia and would not take him to the RWC.

But for the Wallabies perform the best, they need to play the style that makes best use and gets the best results from the best talent available. Whoever they may be, and however they may play.

If Cheika is to rigid to change to suit the 31 blokes in the squad, how is it reasonable for him to expect multiple players to change to suit him? Or does he just select the players that suit him best, ignoring actual ability?

At the same time, I have been vocal in my support of Hooper as a better footballer than Pocock. Right now Pocock's playing a lot better and being more influential though, does Cheika just ignore that and go for Hooper because that suits himself best?

Is Austalian rugby going that well that you can afford to not make use of the best talent available?

 

[hammertimethere]

Is Giteau the clearly best "back up 12 who can play 10?" For mine, Lilo should fill that spot I've been quite happy with him recently.

At this stage I'd be looking to take 3 halfbacks (include White) and Lilo thus removing a spot for an outside back but I certainly could see the merit in taking 2 halfbacks, Giteau and an extra lock/backrower (Timani? Gill?) or utility back (Beale?)

 

[Brumby Runner]

It either Cooper or Foley went down injured, I think you could certainly say that Giteau would clearly be the next best option for Australia and so I could understand his selection in the 23 in those circumstances.

I should open by acknowledging my Brumbies' bias. Have been a member since 1997 and attended every home game up til last year when illness has prevented.

But that's all right insofar as commenting on Matt Giteau because he was also mostly and lastly a Brumby before he went off o/s.

I would not like to see MG brought into the Wallabies as a No 10. His form in his last seasons with the Brumbies was very poor. Sideways running, ignoring his outside backs and an unhealthy penchant for kicking possession away. That sums up his form on the field, and there appeared to be other disruptive type influences around him as well.

Either of Matt To'omua or Christian Lealiifano would be far better options at No 10 if both Quade and Foley go down with injury. That's my opinion and I daresay it is shared by a lot of other Brumbies' supporters judging by many posts on this forum.