Waratahs 2025

[Homer]

Agree with this, Bowen tbf has had limited opportunity. Would think they might be sounding out a guy like HMP, to me he has a higher ceiling than the 3 they have, and is definitely number 2 for the Reds, so might shift with the hope of a starting position to start to build a case for WC2027

Get Will Harrison back, is more talented than the current crop and was cut due to injury, when they had to decide between him, Donno and Tane. Tane played his best game ever against the saders at Leichardt and the decision was made.

Prior to his knee issues Harrison was way ahead of Edmed, better pass, better runner/speed and great support play.

 

[wamberal99]

Get Will Harrison back, is more talented than the current crop and was cut due to injury, when they had to decide between him, Donno and Tane. Tane played his best game ever against the saders at Leichardt and the decision was made.

Prior to his knee issues Harrison was way ahead of Edmed, better pass, better runner/speed and great support play.

Too small.

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

Dare I suggest it - James O'Connor.

 

[LeCheese]

Dare I suggest it - James O'Connor.

Irrespective of anything else, I dare say he's very happy with how things are going at the Crusaders, and that the Crusaders would be very happy to have him stick around.

 

[The Bulldozer]

Good old tahs. Looking at a treacherous ending to the season. Could very well see us placing 10th at this point

 

[BobbyD]

Dare I say it, are we in ‘planning for next season’ mode from now? Not sure who from the wider squad, Shute Shield, Academy, U20’s etc would viably come in at the moment anyway.

 

[Wilson]

Dare I say it, are we in ‘planning for next season’ mode from now? Not sure who from the wider squad, Shute Shield, Academy, U20’s etc would viably come in at the moment anyway.

If that's the call than Talataina should be getting more game time, probably in place of Leota. There was plenty of talk about Kunavula and Ropata at the start of the season, either of them could get a bench spot, assuming they're hanging around. The rest of the positions are harder to tell while contracting is still up in the air. Kailea probably needs more of run too.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Too small.

Gotta disagree with that. He’d be bigger than Lynagh and probably similar to a guy like Foley back 2014 size wise.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I’ll give you another name. Ben Donaldson to return. He’s off contract this year right?

It’s new coaches and management. How many blokes did we see go to the Rebels back in the day and return to their home states? They can sell him on plenty of players like JAS.

 

[Wilson]

I’ll give you another name. Ben Donaldson to return. He’s off contract this year right?

It’s new coaches and management. How many blokes did we see go to the Rebels back in the day and return to their home states? They can sell him on plenty of players like JAS.

Can't see him taking the backwards step, not now that he's locked down the starting jersey in Perth. In the past you usually saw those returns from the Rebels because the prospects back home were generally better, but the Force are trending upwards and generally looking pretty solid, while there are still a lot of questions to be answered at the tahs. There won't really be any capacity for the tahs to outbid the Force for him either.

They'd be more chance of signing Pasitoa from the Force, now that he's effectively blocked by Donaldson. Not much point to that though, it would just be a reset gambling on a higher peak in a few years time. They simply need to pick and stick, try and actually build something rather than buying it in.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Don’t think anyone wants Pasitoa. He’ll be playing for the Water Bubblers in D2 soon.

Keep hearing about trending up but as of right now still have less wins than NSW who in reality have a much higher potential over the next 3-5 years with what they can draw upon. Argument can be made that this is as good as it will be for them.

 

[Wilson]

Don’t think anyone wants Pasitoa. He’ll be playing for the Water Bubblers in D2 soon.

Keep hearing about trending up but as of right now still have less wins than NSW who in reality have a much higher potential over the next 3-5 years with what they can draw upon. Argument can be made that this is as good as it will be for them.

I don't think the tahs have done anywhere near enough to make themselves them an attractive destination for Australian players already starting for an Australian super side. Certainly not for a guys like Donaldson who is very clearly valued by the Force, when the tahs said "thanks but no thanks" only a couple of years ago.

For all the potential it's still not a rosy picture of stability and progress in NSW - they've already lost their starting 6 and 8 (probably the best player all season) and stand to lose quite a few more frontline players based on current contracts. There's every chance it's a sideways step for them next year after the Rebels influx provided a bit of a false dawn this year.

 

[molman]

I don't think the tahs have done anywhere near enough to make themselves them an attractive destination for Australian players already starting for an Australian super side. Certainly not for a guys like Donaldson who is very clearly valued by the Force, when the tahs said "thanks but no thanks" only a couple of years ago.

For all the potential it's still not a rosy picture of stability and progress in NSW - they've already lost their starting 6 and 8 (probably the best player all season) and stand to lose quite a few more frontline players based on current contracts. There's every chance it's a sideways step for them next year after the Rebels influx provided a bit of a false dawn this year.

You don't think that's a bit reductive @Wilson?

For starters this is just their job, there is the human element also to consider. For some of these players their friends, family etc. are all based in NSW and/or Sydney. Sometimes this is amplified with their girlfriends and/or wives also being from NSW and/or Sydney which becomes even more pronounced if they have kids.

There are lifestyle elements that might also come into play, living in one of the larger Australian cities vs. a smaller one like Perth (or even Canberra).

This is before all the other elements of contract negotiations like pay etc. are considered.

The loss of Gleeson and Leota I'd hazard is more about the global market for players atm and money than anything. Both who were likely behind other Wallaby options in terms of top ups to bridge the gap with overseas offers. Though for Leota being from Melbourne and after what happened with the Rebels there might not be as strong a connection to AU Rugby either.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Do have to take into account we always carry opinions of other sides with a bias from who we support.

 

[Wilson]

You don't think that's a bit reductive @Wilson?

For starters this is just their job, there is the human element also to consider. For some of these players their friends, family etc. are all based in NSW and/or Sydney. Sometimes this is amplified with their girlfriends and/or wives also being from NSW and/or Sydney which becomes even more pronounced if they have kids.

There are lifestyle elements that might also come into play, living in one of the larger Australian cities vs. a smaller one like Perth (or even Canberra).

This is before all the other elements of contract negotiations like pay etc. are considered.

The loss of Gleeson and Leota I'd hazard is more about the global market for players atm and money than anything. Both who were likely behind other Wallaby options in terms of top ups to bridge the gap with overseas offers. Though for Leota being from Melbourne and after what happened with the Rebels there might not be as strong a connection to AU Rugby either.

No, or at least I don't think it's any more reductive than most of what we post here. There are always individual circumstances to these decisions that are usually hard to know from the outside, but there's been absolutely no indication that Donaldson is looking to get back to Sydney or even out from the Force.

I definitely wouldn't be looking at it like a move the Rebels as Ghost did either - a move West is pretty different for people in all professions, not just rugby. It's a much more significant move with less direct linkage back home and the make or break for a lot of people tends to come earlier. It's pretty significant that we haven't seen a trend of Force players flooding back east after their re-introduction to the comp. If it does happen it tends to be via a move overseas first, and then an eventual return home.

On the lifestyle factor I think you're probably underrating Perth there. I can't speak to Canberra, but Perth is arguably the best 'lifestyle city' in Australia for young professionals (~25-35), and as far as size goes it's much more a kin to Brisbane. The isolation has actually benefited it a fair bit in this - if people in Perth want something cool they can't just hop a long the east coast for the weekend, they need to make it happen locally. The beaches, close wine regions and WAPA really help boost this and has lead to a pretty varied and interesting offering.

None of this is to say the tahs can't get Donaldson back, but all things being equal (which they do generally look to be), they're probably going to need to bid overs to get someone like Donaldson back, which is something I don't think they have any capacity to do for an established wallaby. This is different for players who are undervalued at their current province, but Donaldson is probably in the top 3 most important players to the Force and they're future plans right now (Tizzano and Williams the other two, Pearce and Potter just outside that for mine).

The alternative is to present a much more stable setup with greater potential, but while it's improving from last years mess it doesn't look like a selling point compared to the Force right now, at least not for a well established player at the Force (it'd be much more of a toss up for a neutral choosing between the two). That was my point about Gleeson and Leota - not that the setup turned them off, but the loss of two crucial players in the pack (Gleeson in particular) leaves more currently unanswered questions about where they're going and would give someone like Donaldson pause. He might end up thinking something like "Is this going to be another shaky rebuild year next year, and will I cede too much ground in the battle for the Wallaby 10 jersey by making the jump?". It would likely be a very different story if Cron was off contract right now, but he's signed through to the end of 2026 so the guys in Perth know what to expect.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I just can't buy the greater potential part. I get this feels as stable as they have ever been but for all the pats on the back they will finish the year with a losing record which is a fail as a professional sporting side. I don't see right now more cavalry arriving either, although there will be movement of players soon...

Tahs have a Force like season its a failure. Force have the same season and everyone tells them how good it's looking. We don't feel threatened by them so it's nice to pump the tyres.

 

[Wilson]

I'm not saying the Force have greater potential than the tahs, I'm saying the tahs aren't demonstrating significantly greater potential than the Force, at least in the short term. That's what they need to demonstrate if it's going to be effective in luring a front line player away from the Force, particularly while the Force are on a steady upward trajectory (all be it a slow on). The year on year improvement the Force have experienced (winning away, winning over kiwi sides, increased wallaby representation) will all combine to create a pretty positive atmosphere there.

It's a very different calculation if you're talking about a neutral player being lured back from overseas - they're much more likely to look at both teams in a similar position right now and see the tahs as a better bet going forward. Where ever that neutral goes, they're going to have to establish themselves and they're already willing to pay the 'cost of moving'. That's not the case for a player deciding between staying where they are and moving to the tahs.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Yeah, again their record in NZ is as bad/good as the Tahs in regard to points conceded and wins over Kiwi sides at home. Win over the Brums was awesome and a great game overall. I expect them to pump the Tahs at HBF in a couple of weeks.

Tbh I don't see Donaldson coming back. He left looking for a new start and he's playing as consistent as ever so good luck to him. Just brought the name up as he's off contract. I'd rather someone like Will Harrison have another crack at Super Rugby with a healthy body. I hope even RA may tell Donaldson that you were beyond erratic before now so maybe it's working for you.

 

[Wilson]

If you were to go after off contract players at the Force it's one of Kuenzle and Pasitoa, Ronan Leahy, Fines-Leleiwasa and maybe Will Harris who are ripe for luring east. Off contract (not certain on Leahy) and good enough to be getting more game time then they currently are. Not a lot of them are good fits for what the tahs are looking for though.

Getting a bit off topic for the tahs thread given they don't need outside backs, but if Leahy is off contract he should have other teams all over him, he's too good a player and has too much potential to be sitting behind Poolman, especially with chances so rare with Potter and Pietsch both there.

 

[Strewthcobber]

He left looking for a new start

Didn't he leave because the Force were willing to pay him enough to qualify for a Wallaby top-up and the Tahs weren't?