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Waratahs 2025

The Ghost of Raelene

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
None of those names rally move the needle and Kuenzle can own the 13 at the Force I think.

Leahy has been a strange one. Blooded last year but not seen this year with Poolman being preferred. Brumbies will be looking for some fresh faces to come in over the next couple of years so who knows their plans also.
 

Homer

Billy Sheehan (19)
I think everyone underestimates how long it takes to turn the ship around. Look at Canterbury in the NRL, Ciraldo has taken several years to get them in shape. Last year the tahs went winless and today we are still mathemetically a chance of making the finals, so things are on the up.
Im not too fussed about Leota going as Talataina has massive potential. Gleeson going will hurt much more as elite ball runners are scarce. 5/8 and the centres are the issue. Hopefully JS can get back there next year, but without a better 5/8 we will continue to struggle as the speed of the game plan is glacial currently. Watch how fast the brumbies were when on the front foot on Saturday, super impressive.
Ropata has been very good for the Rats but not sure about the next level. Dre Pakeho is giving off young Ikitau vibes at the moment for the reds.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Ropata is a very good player and worth a shot IMO and we won't know until he's there.

Bit of a hybrid between Perese and Foketi. Got natural skill like Foketi but more explosive like Perese. Not as explosive but more than Foketi...

I think he and O'Donnell have a bright future. O'Donnell has been asked to do a lot this year and theres been a few errors but I'd say more good than bad for young starting 13. He'd had 5 stints off the bench for the Force last year and less than 80 mins total so this year is a big jump. He was good for the Aus 20, arguably the best player on the park for Norths in a losing GF last year v a stacked Easts so I think he's got a strong future. Natural Centres are hard to find.
 

Dctarget

David Wilson (68)
Fantastic news. Waratahs bringing back some older, heavily capped Wallabies in Philip and Samu. Really what they need too. Just sign Cheika now and you're good :)
 

molman

Jim Lenehan (48)
No, or at least I don't think it's any more reductive than most of what we post here. There are always individual circumstances to these decisions that are usually hard to know from the outside, but there's been absolutely no indication that Donaldson is looking to get back to Sydney or even out from the Force.

I definitely wouldn't be looking at it like a move the Rebels as Ghost did either - a move West is pretty different for people in all professions, not just rugby. It's a much more significant move with less direct linkage back home and the make or break for a lot of people tends to come earlier. It's pretty significant that we haven't seen a trend of Force players flooding back east after their re-introduction to the comp. If it does happen it tends to be via a move overseas first, and then an eventual return home.

On the lifestyle factor I think you're probably underrating Perth there. I can't speak to Canberra, but Perth is arguably the best 'lifestyle city' in Australia for young professionals (~25-35), and as far as size goes it's much more a kin to Brisbane. The isolation has actually benefited it a fair bit in this - if people in Perth want something cool they can't just hop a long the east coast for the weekend, they need to make it happen locally. The beaches, close wine regions and WAPA really help boost this and has lead to a pretty varied and interesting offering.

None of this is to say the tahs can't get Donaldson back, but all things being equal (which they do generally look to be), they're probably going to need to bid overs to get someone like Donaldson back, which is something I don't think they have any capacity to do for an established wallaby. This is different for players who are undervalued at their current province, but Donaldson is probably in the top 3 most important players to the Force and they're future plans right now (Tizzano and Williams the other two, Pearce and Potter just outside that for mine).

The alternative is to present a much more stable setup with greater potential, but while it's improving from last years mess it doesn't look like a selling point compared to the Force right now, at least not for a well established player at the Force (it'd be much more of a toss up for a neutral choosing between the two). That was my point about Gleeson and Leota - not that the setup turned them off, but the loss of two crucial players in the pack (Gleeson in particular) leaves more currently unanswered questions about where they're going and would give someone like Donaldson pause. He might end up thinking something like "Is this going to be another shaky rebuild year next year, and will I cede too much ground in the battle for the Wallaby 10 jersey by making the jump?". It would likely be a very different story if Cron was off contract right now, but he's signed through to the end of 2026 so the guys in Perth know what to expect.
I don't disagree, in that I'm personally doubtful Donaldson will return at this stage (but honestly I don't know), but your prior statement "I don't think the tahs have done anywhere near enough to make themselves them an attractive destination for Australian players already starting for an Australian super side." is just so sweeping and unsubstantiated (by history or fact) and is what I was responding to (not just Donaldson)

If you want to see the pull between organisations it would be easy enough to look at the historic players transfered from Super club to Super club. But even then, with a smaller local pool of talent WA / The Force will always skew (the same as the Rebels did) in pulling players from the Reds, Tahs & Brumbies.

I don't disagree that the Waratahs as an organisation are not the case study that will be studied for best practice over the years and winning (success) also always helps, but there is still many things that would still potentailly draw a range to Super Rugby level players (even those currently at other clubs) to the organisation, including Samu most recently.
 

Wilson

John Eales (66)
I don't disagree, in that I'm personally doubtful Donaldson will return at this stage (but honestly I don't know), but your prior statement "I don't think the tahs have done anywhere near enough to make themselves them an attractive destination for Australian players already starting for an Australian super side." is just so sweeping and unsubstantiated (by history or fact) and is what I was responding to (not just Donaldson)

If you want to see the pull between organisations it would be easy enough to look at the historic players transfered from Super club to Super club. But even then, with a smaller local pool of talent WA / The Force will always skew (the same as the Rebels did) in pulling players from the Reds, Tahs & Brumbies.

I don't disagree that the Waratahs as an organisation are not the case study that will be studied for best practice over the years and winning (success) also always helps, but there is still many things that would still potentailly draw a range to Super Rugby level players (even those currently at other clubs) to the organisation, including Samu most recently.

Key word there was starting, and I did mean the key players (I described Donaldson as "very valued by the Force") as I stressed in more detail in the later replies. As I've also said above I don't think that holds when talking about players returning to Australia as the calculation is different, nor does it hold for players in Australia looking for more gametime.

As far as history goes, Kellaway is the only established starter the tahs have lured from an Australian side since before Covid, and that was when the Rebels were already under significant financial strain and the tahs were performing significantly better than they are now. I don't really think you can read too strongly into history right now though, the tahs move to centralisation has likely meant significant changes in how they contract and recruit. As far as I can tell it will limit what they can spend in trying to lure established wallabies from other Australian sides - the purse strings will be tighter and the RA pay masters are going to baulk at unnecessary bidding wars between Australian teams. It means they really do have to demonstrate a significantly better setup if they want to lure those players away in the vast majority of cases.

Of course there are always going to be individual circumstances that change things for players, but in the absence of evidence of those circumstances we can only assume they're not there. The tahs best path forward for bringing in established talent is the one they already appear to be on - luring back foreign based pros, especially those with a connection to Sydney, in the lead up to a home world cup. Beyond that the need to invest in their pathways and can pick up fringe players from other squads looking for more opportunity (Lawson Creighton) or young stars yet to establish themselves (Henry O'Donnell). They simply don't have the juice to waste time and effort trying to get into a bidding war with the other Australian sides on core talent.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Picking up Samu is a huge get. He may not be in his absolute prime or a like for like with Gleeson leaving but he’s been a starter for Bordeaux and a ready to go starter with a heap of experience.

Good sign for DM as well with one of his former troops happy to come under his coaching again.
 

Derpus

Phil Waugh (73)
As much as I rate Samu I think he's not really the type of player the Waratahs need. Better get for the Wallabies than the Waratahs. Philip on the other hand is an excellent procurement.
 

Major Tom

Bob Loudon (25)
Picking up Samu is a huge get. He may not be in his absolute prime or a like for like with Gleeson leaving but he’s been a starter for Bordeaux and a ready to go starter with a heap of experience.

Good sign for DM as well with one of his former troops happy to come under his coaching again.
Good stopgap until you get Gleeson back from his French stint.
 

molman

Jim Lenehan (48)
Key word there was starting, and I did mean the key players (I described Donaldson as "very valued by the Force") as I stressed in more detail in the later replies. As I've also said above I don't think that holds when talking about players returning to Australia as the calculation is different, nor does it hold for players in Australia looking for more gametime.

As far as history goes, Kellaway is the only established starter the tahs have lured from an Australian side since before Covid, and that was when the Rebels were already under significant financial strain and the tahs were performing significantly better than they are now. I don't really think you can read too strongly into history right now though, the tahs move to centralisation has likely meant significant changes in how they contract and recruit. As far as I can tell it will limit what they can spend in trying to lure established wallabies from other Australian sides - the purse strings will be tighter and the RA pay masters are going to baulk at unnecessary bidding wars between Australian teams. It means they really do have to demonstrate a significantly better setup if they want to lure those players away in the vast majority of cases.

Of course there are always going to be individual circumstances that change things for players, but in the absence of evidence of those circumstances we can only assume they're not there. The tahs best path forward for bringing in established talent is the one they already appear to be on - luring back foreign based pros, especially those with a connection to Sydney, in the lead up to a home world cup. Beyond that the need to invest in their pathways and can pick up fringe players from other squads looking for more opportunity (Lawson Creighton) or young stars yet to establish themselves (Henry O'Donnell). They simply don't have the juice to waste time and effort trying to get into a bidding war with the other Australian sides on core talent.
Starters can be pretty broad for some well rotated squads, but sure, I'm not entirely clear on what your point is then because any starting player for any Super Rugby side is unlikely to leave in most cases unless there is a pay differential and/or some other factors come into play. There is nothing really which is unique to the Tahs vs. most other franchises about this.
 
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