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Western Force 2017

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mst

Peter Johnson (47)
With all the players who have already left and reported to be leaving, I can't see 2018 been any better regardless of who the coach is..

Force/ARU should look to form an agreement or partnership with someone like Fiji.. Come to an agreement where the Force play a trial match or two in Suva, coaching and support staff assist in academies run in Suva, in exchange Fiji provide scouting reports and access to local academies so the Force can sign some Fijian players.

It wouldn't be to make them eligible for the Wallabies, rather offer them professional rugby opportunities with the guarantee that if they choose to play for Fiji then the Force would make them available and offer progress reports on there players.

There's the argument that this will mean less opportunities for Australian eligible players, well that it may, but first the Force need to be competitive.. A Fijian styled Force backline would be brilliant to see and provide flavour to Super Rugby

We are desperately looking for good pathways and opportunities to develop or give young players exposure to professional rugby so why waste a perfect opportunity for development of Australian on a Fiji program? Why send good money offshore and out of Aussie rugby? I am lost as to how Aussie rugby wins with a investment in Fiji rugby?

I would be confident in saying that a team of young rookies that were competitive under a good head coach as development that finished in the lower end of the table would capture the hearts, minds and support of the "The Blue Army" and casual supporters over a bunch of successful Fijians playing as the Force.

I would even venture to say they would get less support from the Aussie public as the hostilities about the ARU funds going to a Fiji project rather than staying in the country would certainty evoke some passionate reactions.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
We are desperately looking for good pathways and opportunities to develop or give young players exposure to professional rugby so why waste a perfect opportunity for development of Australian on a Fiji program? Why send good money offshore and out of Aussie rugby? I am lost as to how Aussie rugby wins with a investment in Fiji rugby?


Because the pathways out West have been paying dividends under the current construct right? How many south africans and ineligible/development players are there currently in the squad?

A competitive Western Force would generate a greater return for Australian Rugby then a few extra Australian eligible wallaby players ever will. Players like Kyle Godwin could potentially be a Wallaby had he been playing in a competitive team surrounded by quality players.

You don't seem to concerned by having Cubelli in the Brumbies, why should we invest in Argentinian Rugby? Would Australian Rugby not have benefited greater by Joe Powell starting instead of Cubelli?
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Phil Kearns (64)
Actually TOCC, I would say we're on the right track with player development over here. Look how many WA players have made their way into the Force squad recently. Sure they're not all test quality, but at least the pipeline is improving and it's better than just wholesale importing players. That's unsustainable in the long term.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
Actually TOCC, I would say we're on the right track with player development over here. Look how many WA players have made their way into the Force squad recently. Sure they're not all test quality, but at least the pipeline is improving and it's better than just wholesale importing players. That's unsustainable in the long term.

You are correct. So why go and look in Fiji? It provides no financial return, is already being tapped by European clubs and the Force attract O/S players looking for opportunities regardless.

It well known that financially games in the Pacific nations are at your own cost, thus why either World Rugby bares the cost for development reasons (like tests etc), or NZ Rugby does it as an assistance package at their expense ( I believe Wordy rugby again may have assisted).

The Force system is slowly yielding results so further and better development will yield better returns. Supporters will invest in players that are produced from the system: AKA the rusted on. The rust will spread as the player yield and results increase and improve. Jooste is a perfect example of what is on the horizon, but you need the coaches in WA to keep him developing in house.

The key to getting supporters on board is keeping the investment local.

Strategic investment in players and coaches is always wise - like having a Cubelli, a world class 9 around the likes of Dowsett, Powell and Lonergan. It would may also benefit the Force to have a Meyer or Lancater or similar.
 

Charlie Brown

Chris McKivat (8)
There are player after player who have played 2 years of NRC or emerging into this comp in Australia that are crying out to be given an opportunity?? Why are we looking over seas. Isn't this what the NRC is supposed to be for everybody??? To build depth in Australian Rugby??? Because these players are trying hard to crack the Super Rugby comp they are less expensive and try bloody hard to get game time.. Remember when Jake White found youngsters within the Brumbies stocks who were contracted but pretty inexperienced. Look how far these boys have come now. Most in the Wallabies squad/team. I think you can get a lot out of youngsters once given the chance..I agree the Force need a classy coach for players to want to come to Perth. Young players will go anywhere given half the chance..they just need to be given the chance. Look at quality performances in the NRC from all franchises IMHO.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Strategic investment in players and coaches is always wise - like having a Cubelli, a world class 9 around the likes of Dowsett, Powell and Lonergan.


funny....

We are desperately looking for good pathways and opportunities to develop or give young players exposure to professional rugby so why waste a perfect opportunity for development of Australian on a Argentinian program? Why send good money offshore and out of Aussie rugby? I am lost as to how Aussie rugby wins with a investment in Argentina rugby?
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Actually TOCC, I would say we're on the right track with player development over here. Look how many WA players have made their way into the Force squad recently. Sure they're not all test quality, but at least the pipeline is improving and it's better than just wholesale importing players. That's unsustainable in the long term.


Yeah i agree that the Force has done well with the local pathway, but you surely can't sit there and tell me that the current Force roster for 2017 or even the current one for 2017 has the ability to win the Championship?

Based on current trends the Western Force are still decades away from been a fully self-sustaining rugby union team where a competitive squad of 33 Western Australian born and bred can be picked.

So in the mean time, why ignore a market where there is a production line of talented rugby union players, one where there is no professional rugby union set up and one where there is opportunity to benefit both parties? Im not saying the Force go out and sign 10 or 20 Fijians, thats not ideal, but scouting and selecting 4 or 5 Fijians/Tongans or Samoans in a strategic partnership with the governing body stands to not only benefit the Force, but rugby union in the Pacific Islands.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Liberties - recruiting program in Fiji is hardly a comparison to Cubelli at the Brumbies. :rolleyes:


Its the same shit really..Foreign players filling positions in Australian Super Rugby sides.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
Yeah i agree that the Force has done well with the local pathway, but you surely can't sit there and tell me that the current Force roster for 2017 or even the current one for 2017 has the ability to win the Championship?

Based on current trends the Western Force are still decades away from been a fully self-sustaining rugby union team where a competitive squad of 33 Western Australian born and bred can be picked.

So in the mean time, why ignore a market where there is a production line of talented rugby union players, one where there is no professional rugby union set up and one where there is opportunity to benefit both parties? Im not saying the Force go out and sign 10 or 20 Fijians, thats not ideal, but scouting and selecting 4 or 5 Fijians/Tongans or Samoans in a strategic partnership with the governing body stands to not only benefit the Force, but rugby union in the Pacific Islands.

What roster for 2017? What coach 2017? What programs for 2017?
So I see you certainly didn't bet on Leicester in the EPL!!!:p Money buys wins and so does superstars -right!

Can you name a single team in the world playing at an elite level that are all born and bread in the same city or region they play?

If there is a production line of player in Fiji they would be contacting the Force due to the lack of professional opportunities. But would they would be the left overs from the European teams's academies and programs you mentioned earlier?
 

dru

John Eales (66)
Those interested in following coach selection should have a quick gander at the Reds 2017 thread, particularly two posts by Reg: #525 and #529.

A couple of thoughts out of that:
1. The Force/ARU need to let the WA rugby world understand the process for coach selection and initial success such as number of candidates short listed.
2. Reds HC selection committee appears to be bound in with ex-ARU and current ARU people. Given the ARU is effectively selecting in WA I'd like to know that there is either a "Chinese Wall" around the two camps, or perhaps that communication is formalised.
3. Were I a Force fan, I'd be disappointed if the HC list was constrained compared to the Reds.
4. For the Reds my knee jerk reaction to Lancaster was similar to posts here. But we should respect the selection process, Lancaster may well have grown and could be a great HC. His problem being that his recent record will lead to doubters and both Reds and Force fans are low on tolerance at the moment. I would think its a reasonable chance that Lancaster arrives at one of these franchises.
5. Despite my concerns over a "Chinese Wall" surely the ARU should be supporting the push to get Blackadder in Australia.

Interesting times.
 

Melchior

Herbert Moran (7)
Those interested in following coach selection should have a quick gander at the Reds 2017 thread, particularly two posts by Reg: #525 and #529.

A couple of thoughts out of that:
1. The Force/ARU need to let the WA rugby world understand the process for coach selection and initial success such as number of candidates short listed.
2. Reds HC selection committee appears to be bound in with ex-ARU and current ARU people. Given the ARU is effectively selecting in WA I'd like to know that there is either a "Chinese Wall" around the two camps, or perhaps that communication is formalised.
3. Were I a Force fan, I'd be disappointed if the HC list was constrained compared to the Reds.
4. For the Reds my knee jerk reaction to Lancaster was similar to posts here. But we should respect the selection process, Lancaster may well have grown and could be a great HC. His problem being that his recent record will lead to doubters and both Reds and Force fans are low on tolerance at the moment. I would think its a reasonable chance that Lancaster arrives at one of these franchises.
5. Despite my concerns over a "Chinese Wall" surely the ARU should be supporting the push to get Blackadder in Australia.

Interesting times.

Interesting as you say. Seems like the ARU are holding the whip hand for the coaches role at both the Reds and Force. I think on his WC results Lancaster is not preferred over Blackadder and if the scenario evolved whereby Blackadder took the reins at the Reds and Lancaster at the Force, I think this would reinforce the view in the west that the ARU thinks they are second best.

Not sure if there are any other higher profile coaches available though, except for Meyer who recently put his hand up for the Force. I would assume the ARU would be in serious talks with him right now.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
No chance they will hire two foreign coaches leaving just two Aussie coaches in charge of Super Rugby teams.

The ARU don't hold the whip hand in QLD
 

todd4

Jim Clark (26)
If Blackadder was to be the favored choice of both the Reds and Force it would have to be seen as his choice which team he gets. Would not be a good look for the ARU to be seen to try to influence him toward one team or the other.

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