Actually no I don't , I never met a faultless CEO of anything, but if you like to imagine things , not for me to tell you different. I was just saying it wasn't me getting at Hamish I was defending him signing up for what he thought was best for Aus rugby
No I saying it must be best for RA, because your your board has signed up for it!! Not ME but your board, so do Hamish, Leapfrog know more or less about what is good for game in Aus? Or do you think they would sign up for what they believe with all the facts it is bad for the game?no you’re trying to sell a narrative they SR TT is best for Australian rugby. And what we are telling you as Australian rugby fans, is that we don’t think it is best.
You’ve also made claims previously that there’s more going then what we see, so why does that not apply now?
Haha Dan you’ve literally said it multiple times.No I saying it must be best for RA, because your your board has signed up for it!! Not ME but your board, so do Hamish, Leapfrog know more or less about what is good for game in Aus? Or do you think they would sign up for what they believe with all the facts it is bad for the game?
If you do what do you think of them as a board, if they are hurting Australian rugby?
Anyway time for me to go and get some stuff sorted before bed .
Although our 1999 RWC victory was largely built on the foundations of the amateur era - all of the players and coaching staff were developed in the systems of the time. The introduction of SR in 1996 would certainly have added polish to the players, but it wouldn't be entirely accurate to put that success down to SR. In fact the demise of Australian rugby broadly mirrors the SR era - not because of SR itself, but because the systems below were either neglected or bypassed by the administration.It depends on what you want to 'work long term'.
If you are looking at on-field rugby success, SR has been proven to work with Australia winning 1 RWC, a number of SR titles and maintaining 2nd or 3rd in the world rankings.
If you are looking for the domestic 'footprint' then SR doesn't work in Australia. It's not designed to do that. Who blames the spanner for not cutting wood?
But isn't that the sad thing about all of this, of course lets sign up for another crappy Super Rugby format. Do you reckon Marinos isn't already lining up a RWC consultancy role, let the gravy train continue. All with the promise of riches to Aus rugby with the Lions and the RWC.Haha Dan you’ve literally said it multiple times.
I feel the current situation is nkthing more then a best crappy compromise that RA and NZRU were willing to negotiate too. And like you’ve said previously, I’m sure there’s more going on then we are privy.
I wouldn’t it past, that there’s more to this then RA simply believing SR is the best for Australia and this is a compromise to satisfy some short terms motives
2027 RWC vote, TRC negotiations and potentially a revenue sharing all part of that of the terms we won’t see.
Just an interesting note, the Warriors confirming Redcliffe (Brisbane) as there 2022 base with games in NZ if possible. Should make Super Pacific with an 18th February start intersting.
Quick,Although our 1999 RWC victory was largely built on the foundations of the amateur era - all of the players and coaching staff were developed in the systems of the time. The introduction of SR in 1996 would certainly have added polish to the players, but it wouldn't be entirely accurate to put that success down to SR. In fact the demise of Australian rugby broadly mirrors the SR era - not because of SR itself, but because the systems below were either neglected or bypassed by the administration.
My view, for what it's worth, is that had ARU/RA continued and strengthened the amateur era systems and professionalised what was already there in terms of player and coach development then I think that we would have a vibrant national club competition similar to English Premier Rugby or French Top 14. (possibly not with the same quantum of money, but SR doesn't have the same quantum of money as those competitions either) Had that occurred we wouldn't need to use SR to spread the game and it could be a short elite representative competition linking to test rugby (which is what it was originally designed to be).
This has always been my argument, and why my beloved Woodies and there treatment along with other Shute teams is so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so misunderstood.
Many over the years have a go at me because I class rugby as a challenger code to the more dominate codes of cricket, AFL & NRL. Saying as a challenging code we need to look at what the other challenger codes do.
With the various regional competitions like the Shute competition, club rugby was king, and each team like the Woodies had a number of junior teams supplying a constant stream of hopefuls.
Schools like Epping Boys also supported the local club rugby team.
SR not only robbed the Shute teams of there best but openly attacked club rugby folk [half included] annoyed that we still wanted our local traditional competitions.
I can still recall the joy in the faces of the locals at TGM on club days when former test player would come down and present prizes.
SR did not develop youth academies, they just kept raiding like a thief players from club rugby.
Club rugby was far more the the Shute Shield, there were a number of club rugby competitions an all had youth development in place.
But not developing youth academies, nor having a feel for locals, club ruby started to falter, and so did their junior competitions, especially Saturday morning competitions, unbelievably and sadly moved to Sunday for the benefit of the private schools.
My idea of RA developing a competition and then inviting private teams to enter, has another aspect in that as part of the entry criteria set up by RA, all teams coming in need to have a base of a certain numbers of juniors and must operate a youth academy for the development of the rep sides taken from their local park teams.
Quick, the incredible damage done by SR to youth development and to the various club rugby competitions is huge, mostly ignored but never talked about as it has not suited the flag waving SR folk.
Essentially after Matthew Ridge went to Manly even NZ got scared and rugby sold its soul to a US media company, and while the first say 3 to 5 years were good a pause, take control, we should have used the various club rugby competitions to create a national competition.
Quick, you have opened up a lot of old wounds..
So so so true mate.SR is not club rugby. Though I'll grant you an important part of it. But it is not club rugby. SR had a privileged position reading into the Wallabies for a long time. Even to the retrograde of Qld rugby.
It is (surely) time to go forward. It starts with letting go of old tropes.
Exactly. And you can expect the same kind of results from the Wallabies.None of us on here have said anything here about rugby matching the NRL or AFL, but don't you remember all the talk of Super rugby taking over the world though, a bloody lot of that coming from NZ.
Your right though it will be more like the NBL and A-league, but that is where rugby is in the Australian landscape, and sadly nothing will change until it all collapses just as Super Rugby did, as those at the top here are all still pulling in wages that the game here has never been able to generate or sustain.
Who is being facetious now?Just being facetious now. Obviously it won't be as popular as NRL and AFL. But from a very limited sample size we can tentatively conclude it will be more popular than TT. And popularity is what you build on.
Not some mythical 'you have to play though because we are NZ and we the bestest'.
Fuck me - it's not about playing NZ. It's about playing the better competition.What's the justification for this, though? Not playing NZ doesn't seem to be an issue for anyone else.
South Africa have actually gotten better since they stopped. Doesn't seem to be a problem for England or France. Japan are probably making the most strides in World Rugby and they don't.
Its perfectly possible that if we built a popular domestic comp it could develop quality players.
An old interview came up in my facebook post with Jon O'Neill yesterday, I can't beleive how ridiculous it sounds now. Like building empires, look what they ended up with. The whole thing was built on a house of nothing, yet they've still got the same mentallity.So so so true mate.
I have been arguing this before 2000.
The undeliverable naive foolish or whatever words can be used to describe of how we trusted a company like News to develop the future of rugby was insane. Yet akin to Trump voters in the US today rugby folk could not see the bleeding obvious.
Trolled?! I'm pretty sure Dan and I are both dvocating what we think will make for better quality of rugby in Australia. You can disagree but fuck off with your 'trolling'. You guys act like Aussie rugby fans are the only ones who live here and enjoy good rugby. Plenty of kiwis live here and pay for our Stan subscriptions and go to games, buy our kids the fucken paraphernalia etc. Yeah - we'd like to see good rugby here too.Pretty sure we are just being trolled.
Be interesting to see how smug kiwis are feeling when Aus rugby is gone and their players are all being sucked down the player drain with only the NPC or Japan (lol - height of competitiveness that) to play in.
To me, SANZAR tried to grow way too quickly. Super 12 went for 10 years and was a great comp. Expanded to to 14 and that was fairly good too.An old interview came up in my facebook post with Jon O'Neill yesterday, I can't beleive how ridiculous it sounds now. Like building empires, look what they ended up with. The whole thing was built on a house of nothing, yet they've still gt the same mentallity.
The only trend that matters in sport can be followed in the win/loss column. That hasn't changed.This rhetoric that SR was popular 20 years ago so we should just go back to that structure and number of teams is wilfully naive, it ignores 101 other trends which have occurred which have shaped market demand in that time, and incorrectly assumes that changing one variable will return to past glory. It wont, and it irks me people continue to look at past glories as an example of what could exist today, you need to understand the market as it exists today, not what existed 20 years ago.
Myspace was popular back in the early 2000’s as well, another example of a product which failed to effectively innovate and understand market trends.