• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Where to for Super Rugby?

hoggy

Cyril Towers (30)
You never know. It could go brilliantly and everyone want to continue with the same multi-tournament structure. It would reduce the number of inconsequential games to near 0. If you bring in some of the top Japanese and in time, South American teams you could have a 16 team tournament with 4 pools of 4 followed by quarter finals etc.

Both domestic leagues went well this year, allowing unions to finally engage in there own fanbase without this all this rugby conferences taking over the world bullshit.

Separate leagues allows for expansion within there own markets, short term goal would be 6 teams each, but then the separate TT allows for flexibility in scheduling, formats, look at introducing SA & Japanese teams to this part of the league.
 

sendit

Bob Loudon (25)
It’s going to get so fucking boring if we just play amongst ourself a for the next 5-10 years, I was getting over it towards the end of this season

I want to see the reds play the blues, the Waratahs up against the Crusaders etc and not in a one off finals game, if a team has a rough run for a few years they could go ages without playing kiwi opposition and miss out on the support and $$ from expats that live in that state
 

hoggy

Cyril Towers (30)
It’s going to get so fucking boring if we just play amongst ourself a for the next 5-10 years, I was getting over it towards the end of this season

I want to see the reds play the blues, the Waratahs up against the Crusaders etc and not in a one off finals game, if a team has a rough run for a few years they could go ages without playing kiwi opposition and miss out on the support and $$ from expats that live in that state

But you won't just be playing amongst yourself, every year you will be playing the Crusaders, that is the TT part of the season. and by the way the English premier league AFL & NRL are all doing pretty okay playing themselves every year, they somehow aren't finding it boring.
 

Dan54

Michael Lynagh (62)
But you won't just be playing amongst yourself, every year you will be playing the Crusaders, that is the TT part of the season. and by the way the English premier league AFL & NRL are all doing pretty okay playing themselves every year, they somehow aren't finding it boring.

Good point, with one slight problem, EPL,NRL AFL aren't made up of 5 teams.
 

hifflepiff

Darby Loudon (17)
I'd be happy with that too, but there could be changes in 2-3 years time if they want to do something with Japan, which has been flagged.

Im not sure if it would be good for Japanese or Australian rugby long term to have our domestic leagues tied together beyond a champions league style post season.

Similar problem to the Saffas, too far away and no tribalism or rivalry between the teams or their fans.

Plus Japan seems to be going full steam ahead with its 3 tier domestic professional league. As we've seen from the number of Wallabies and All Blacks going over there, I don't think they have any want for top quality talent or support.
 

dru

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Not really, para. 2 was such an obvious attempted wind-up I just replied as if it weren't there.

We really are better to base ourselves in reality which starts with an obvious quality gap between NZ and Aus. Ultimately it is an issue that will need to be addressed for the comp to be successful.

It will surely be top two teams in the final, not top team from each “conference”. As long as the domestic comps are the main stay of the season’s rugby I am good with it.

Merge it into one TT comp and I want out - back to domestic. UNLESS the comp takes active measures to address levelling the playing field. Constantly being clouted by Kiwi teams is utterly harmful to Australia and in no time flat harmful to the comp in NZ. It is not a matter that has gone away as we were impacted by COVID and are now in fine recovery.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
Im not sure if it would be good for Japanese or Australian rugby long term to have our domestic leagues tied together beyond a champions league style post season.

Similar problem to the Saffas, too far away and no tribalism or rivalry between the teams or their fans.

Plus Japan seems to be going full steam ahead with its 3 tier domestic professional league. As we've seen from the number of Wallabies and All Blacks going over there, I don't think they have any want for top quality talent or support.

I was referring to a tie in with Japan when it comes to a champions league or some kind of mini cup tournament. Like the TT comp will be next year but expanded to include a couple of Japanese teams (and potentially South American teams).
 

hoggy

Cyril Towers (30)
Good point, with one slight problem, EPL,NRL AFL aren't made up of 5 teams.

But that was a specific decision made when those teams were essentially considered trial set-ups for the National teams, so you end up with the Waratahs being the only team in your biggest market and all the structural issues that come with that.
You can't turn the clock back, but you can hopefully define where you will be in 20 years time.
 

BDA

Peter Johnson (47)
Happy to see some kind of Trans Tasman comp (although I'm not entirely sold on the format).

I share the general sentiment that I'd like to see the Domestic Super Rugby Australia Comp continue into 2022 and beyond, regardless of what Trans-Tasman or other cross-regional comp they want to develop. Never thought I'd enjoy just watching the Aussie sides go at it, but I found it so much more engaging than previous seasons.
 
200w.webp

"So, my Blues will be playing the
Cantabs in the final next year....."
 

hoggy

Cyril Towers (30)
That is a very poor example to use

Sorry maybe a poor example but its still the end result, were the ones that locked in state based teams some 20 years ago.

My concern is if we solely go down the TT route, how does that then change things because immediately your competing with the interests of the NZ domestic set-up, who will forever want us to remain at something that suits them.

If we separate the competitions, at least we have the flexibility of adapting to Australian market conditions, who knows 15 years time we could have 8-10 professional team, what NZ chooses to do is there decision.

My point is of course we want more teams to grow the game domestically, but I fear signing up solely to a TT comp just ensures you will still just have 5 teams in 15 years time.

Look if the marketplace, say yourself deem the local content to be to repetitive that in itself will drive commercial interests to expand the market.
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
Both domestic leagues went well this year, allowing unions to finally engage in there own fanbase without this all this rugby conferences taking over the world bullshit.

Separate leagues allows for expansion within there own markets, short term goal would be 6 teams each, but then the separate TT allows for flexibility in scheduling, formats, look at introducing SA & Japanese teams to this part of the league.
6 teams? how the fuck we gunna manage that. We can't put together 6 SR quality teams, period.

If we were going to add teams domestically it would have required a complete restructure of the entire comp, it could only be done in isolation (no TT), and the average quality of the squads would drop dramatically.

Also - why would we re-introduce SA into the comp, isn't that just rebuilding the Super 15 abomination?

I still don't understand, Covid permitting, why they wouldn't just do a 10 team home and away comp. That's 9 home games a year guaranteed. (edit: unless there isn't time for that many rounds?)

If the Aussie teams arent good enough to make the finals then so be it.
 

hoggy

Cyril Towers (30)
6 teams? how the fuck we gunna manage that. We can't put together 6 SR quality teams, period.

If we were going to add teams domestically it would have required a complete restructure of the entire comp, it could only be done in isolation (no TT), and the average quality of the squads would drop dramatically.

Also - why would we re-introduce SA into the comp, isn't that just rebuilding the Super 15 abomination?

I still don't understand, Covid permitting, why they wouldn't just do a 10 team home and away comp. That's 9 home games a year guaranteed. (edit: unless there isn't time for that many rounds?)

If the Aussie teams arent good enough to make the finals then so be it.

But it doesn't have to be done in isolation, you run the (TT or Champions League) after each countries domestic comp, okay the just keep it at 5 teams if that suits. SA & Japan put simply money.

Okay run a 10 team 2 round TT comp, I'm just not sure the money will be there to sustain it long term.
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
But it doesn't have to be done in isolation, you run the (TT or Champions League) after each countries domestic comp, okay the just keep it at 5 teams if that suits. SA & Japan put simply money.

Okay run a 10 team 2 round TT comp, I'm just not sure the money will be there to sustain it long term.

As long as teams live within their means it will always be financially viable. The issue is how they deal with big money overtures for their players.

Personally, i think SA have taken the right approach to it. They have focused their limited resources on domestic players and let players who can demand huge salaries pursue those opportunities in Europe whilst still being available for selection.

I think it's essentially inevitable that we open up selection in a similar way (if European and Japanese salaries keep going up, which is not certain). Make Wallaby top-ups per match played rather than a salary add-on.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Personally, i think SA have taken the right approach to it. They have focused their limited resources on domestic players and let players who can demand huge salaries pursue those opportunities in Europe whilst still being available for selection.

I think it's essentially inevitable that we open up selection in a similar way (if European and Japanese salaries keep going up, which is not certain). Make Wallaby top-ups per match played rather than a salary add-on.


South Africa also have a lot more depth and are a lot closer to Europe where the players are playing.

Bringing more players back for test matches is a lot more feasible due to the travel time being less than half and importantly no jetlag due to the similar time zones.

Bringing back far more players is also a lot more feasible at a RWC where everyone gets the long time prepping and playing together. We will see over the next couple of years whether they are as good with that method where the preparation times are shorter.
 

Adam84

Mark Loane (55)
Also we'll see if having weak domestic teams drags down viewership/playing numbers etc
Correct and this is the issue of Australia were to follow that path, a competition without high quality or high profile players is pretty hard to market and sell, especially in competition with the NRL.
 
Top