Wallabies 2020

[Drew]

Probably right re Deegan. Although I guess he’s the most senior specialist 10 playing (not playing) at present.
I agreed more with the rhetoric that HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) is hard done by, and as Froggy puts it

Another I thought might have got a start was HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes), while swapping sides has been a bit of a tough one for him, he's been pretty solid for a couple of years now (certainly one of the Tahs best, although that doesn't set the bar very high) and a prop who can play both sides is always an asset.

And that Harrison, Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase), Tafa and Harris have the potential to make it at some stage, just not now.

 

[TSR]

It’s interesting with HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes). I guess there is a lot of history of props being swapped over and it not working out. But he does seem, to me, to have the raw ingredients to make a good fist of it. But he had to be given a bit of time. Guys like Slipper, Holmes & Kepu were all moved around. It didn’t do them favours in the short term (well - I’m not sure it was really an issue for Holmes) but they were fine in the longer run. We seem to be in an age were props are debuting at 20 more and more, but I think a realistic view here is that Bell & HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) will take 2-3 years at least to really find there groove, as impressive as both of their rookie seasons were/have been.

Of course we could get three years down the track and work out HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) is really a loose head, but I tend to think that will sort itself in time.

It is nice to see so much emerging front row talent in Australian rugby.

 

[wamberal]

It is nice to see so much emerging front row talent in Australian rugby.

It has been fascinating to watch the transition from the days of the Dunnings and Baxters. We were all wringing our hands, now we seem to be able to hold our own with just about every front row in the world.

 

[Brumby Runner]

TSR, on Deegan. He is currently playing behind MT, the incumbent Wallaby, at the Rebels and doing a very good job when he comes on. There has been discussion here at times about using Deegan at 10 and MT at 12 for the Rebels. And as Drew points out, he is the most senior specialist No 10 going round, and he covers all the skills required of a No 10. It is speculation on my part that he would make the grade at Wallaby level, but that applies to any player being brought into the national side the first time. If there might be any thoughts by Rennie to shift MT or JOC (James O'Connor) around then Andrew D would imo be the next best option at No 10 behind or maybe equal with Noah Lolesio.

 

[Froggy]

BR, I think that may be the case right now. However, just from the little we've seen I think both Lolesio and Harrison have a greater ceiling than Deegan, and while they might both be a bit green at the moment (Lolesio is ahead of Harrison, but he also hasn't had to deal with the debacle that has been the Tahs this year) I think they both have a really exciting future.

 

[TSR]

TSR, on Deegan. He is currently playing behind MT, the incumbent Wallaby, at the Rebels and doing a very good job when he comes on. There has been discussion here at times about using Deegan at 10 and MT at 12 for the Rebels. And as Drew points out, he is the most senior specialist No 10 going round, and he covers all the skills required of a No 10. It is speculation on my part that he would make the grade at Wallaby level, but that applies to any player being brought into the national side the first time. If there might be any thoughts by Rennie to shift MT or JOC (James O'Connor) around then Andrew D would imo be the next best option at No 10 behind or maybe equal with Noah Lolesio.

No probs with your assessment of his ability - I just can’t see a guy who isn’t starting for his Super team getting a gig in the Wallabies squad in front of the 4 guys who are starting.

Whatever his potential is, he is not currently considered a Super Rugby starter. From time to time Super rugby reserves still get a gig in the Wallaby squad, but it is pretty rare and it is normally based on certain features of their game - eg Tolu Latu who was a strong scrummager & very good over the ball.

Good luck to him - I won’t be disappointed if I am wrong, but if Rennie is picking on form he has little chance and on history/experience he has none.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It doesn't happen often, TSR, granted, but a couple of recent examples are James Slipper and Jake Gordon. I'm not sure now, but maybe FF (Folau Fainga'a) also got a run in the squad when Steve Moore was still the incumbent Wallaby.

 

[rugboy]

Im still perplexed at reports that 14 Reds have made this extended PONI squad. Rennie was reported to saying he would pick solely on form, not reputation or age. How does that equate to 14 reds? Given they are 2-5. The Tahs 1-5 reportedly have have 3 with only a few arguments there, the Rebels at 3-3 only 8, while the 5-1 Brumbies reportedly have 12. If you have 14 players "in form" how do you only win 2 games, and those two teams both have 1 win each.

 

[KOB1987]

No probs with your assessment of his ability - I just can’t see a guy who isn’t starting for his Super team getting a gig in the Wallabies squad in front of the 4 guys who are starting.

Whatever his potential is, he is not currently considered a Super Rugby starter. From time to time Super rugby reserves still get a gig in the Wallaby squad, but it is pretty rare and it is normally based on certain features of their game - eg Tolu Latu who was a strong scrummager & very good over the ball.

Good luck to him - I won’t be disappointed if I am wrong, but if Rennie is picking on form he has little chance and on history/experience he has none.

Just some trivia on a similar note as an aside, for whatever reason I am reading Eddie Jones book. I knew Kearns was plucked out of reserve grade for his test debut, what I didn’t know was that when he came back from the Bledisloe he went back into reserve grade.

 

[RugbyReg]

Im still perplexed at reports that 14 Reds have made this extended PONI squad. Rennie was reported to saying he would pick solely on form, not reputation or age. How does that equate to 14 reds? Given they are 2-5. The Tahs 1-5 reportedly have have 3 with only a few arguments there, the Rebels at 3-3 only 8, while the 5-1 Brumbies reportedly have 12. If you have 14 players "in form" how do you only win 2 games, and those two teams both have 1 win each.

Let’s start with the obvious statement- it’s a paper squad. Means nothing. They’ve been picking Wallaby and Aussie A teams every week.

Now for the 2nd obvious statement. The Tahs have been shite. The Reds have been impressive and have had unlucky losses. Check out the for and against for the 2 sides to get a feel for the difference between them.

Now as for the Brumbies, they have been very good. Two of their best are not eligible (Kata and Douglas) while I think most of the Reds differential would be that all of our squad locks are in the squad. Perhaps only one Brumby in Neville? It would also seem that the Reds big backrow numbers (Wilson, Wright and McReight) helped too. Fraser the biggest question mark but he’s been excellent off the bench and is the Junior Wallabies Player of the Year.

 

[RugbyReg]

Rebels also have their fair share of ineligible players too.

And not too many new names playing the house down.

 

[rugboy]

Let’s start with the obvious statement- it’s a paper squad. Means nothing. They’ve been picking Wallaby and Aussie A teams every week.

Now for the 2nd obvious statement. The Tahs have been shite. The Reds have been impressive and have had unlucky losses. Check out the for and against for the 2 sides to get a feel for the difference between them.

Now as for the Brumbies, they have been very good. Two of their best are not eligible (Kata and Douglas) while I think most of the Reds differential would be that all of our squad locks are in the squad. Perhaps only one Brumby in Neville? It would also seem that the Reds big backrow numbers (Wilson, Wright and McReight) helped too. Fraser the biggest question mark but he’s been excellent off the bench and is the Junior Wallabies Player of the Year.

RR I appreciate what you are saying although if as reported Rennie has contacted all those on the list it wouldn't reflect a weekly change in said list and no doubt wouldn't mean nothing to those contacted by the incoming Wallabies coach informing them they are in his plans.

No doubt the Tahs have been ordinary, as much as it pains me to say it, so no arguments there. I will stop short of saying the Reds have been impressive. They have been good in patches. They played poorly to lose to a 1-5 Lions who the Waratahs evidently beat. They capitulated terribly in the second half to a mediocre (3-1-3) Jaguares team. They let the 1-5 Bulls get out to a 17-0 start on them before coming over the top of them. They were very good against the Crusaders, and were Ok against the Sharks where an 87th minute try made the scoreline far more respectable. Against the Brumbies they were dominant for 30 minutes then went to sleep for the next 50 and a 76th minute try again made the score respectable. The have been a typical young team, inconsistent. Hardly the model of "in form". Wright and Wilson are givens.

Bit misleading to use for and against as a guide. Tahs have played Saders, Blues, Chiefs, Brumbies so four of the top 5 teams then 3-3 Rebels and had a win over the 1-5 Lions. Reds played 3 teams with a 1-5 record for a loss and 2 convincing wins, loss to a 3-3 Jaguares before some good games against Brums, Saders and Sharks. No doubt with 3 games against 1-3 teams Reds have had the chance to boost their for and against.

 

[TSR]

Im still perplexed at reports that 14 Reds have made this extended PONI squad. Rennie was reported to saying he would pick solely on form, not reputation or age. How does that equate to 14 reds? Given they are 2-5. The Tahs 1-5 reportedly have have 3 with only a few arguments there, the Rebels at 3-3 only 8, while the 5-1 Brumbies reportedly have 12. If you have 14 players "in form" how do you only win 2 games, and those two teams both have 1 win each.

Off the top of my head I would guess -
Mafi, Tupou, Blyth, Rodda, Salakaia-Loto, Wright, Wilson, McReight, McDermott, O’Connor, Paisami, Daugunu & Campbell

That leaves one more out of JP Smith, Paenga-Amosa, Hockings, Stewart, CFS & maybe Petaia (who you would definitely include if injured players aren’t excluded). Plus maybe Isaac Lucas depending on the extent to which development players are included.

Which of those would you exclude from a preliminary Wallabies training squad?

 

[Adam84]

I don’t see the current squad breakdown been an issue, given the age of many of those Reds players i would imagine a handful of the Reds are there just to get exposure or an introduction to Rennie at the higher level and aren’t likely to feature in the reduced squad which will be more weighted towards the Brumbies.

I don’t think the current win/loss record is worth that much at this point in the season when it comes towards player selections, the Reds have had the hardest draw so far in terms of travel and away games, Waratahs the easiest.

 

[Slim 293]

Let's see, 12 Brumbies.........

Sio (not on form though), Slipper, Ala'alatoa, Fainga'a, Samu, Valetini, Powell, Lolesio, Simone, Kuridrani, Banks......... and probably Wright or Muirhead.......... maybe Swain, but he hasn't played much this year and I think they'd be interested in at least one of the Brumbies wingers.

A bit of an outsider, but Neville's form might have also attracted the selectors.........

But if it's strictly a form sheet then ditch Sio and add one of those other guys in.

 

[TSR]

Yeah, but they won’t ditch Sio, and nor should they. Plus - didn’t it come out that he has been carrying his injury all season. It’ll be interesting how he returns after the break.

I’d like to see Wright included. There is a lot to like about his game.

 

[rugboy]

Off the top of my head I would guess -
Mafi, Tupou, Blyth, Rodda, Salakaia-Loto, Wright, Wilson, McReight, McDermott, O’Connor, Paisami, Daugunu & Campbell

That leaves one more out of JP Smith, Paenga-Amosa, Hockings, Stewart, CFS & maybe Petaia (who you would definitely include if injured players aren’t excluded). Plus maybe Isaac Lucas depending on the extent to which development players are included.

Which of those would you exclude from a preliminary Wallabies training squad?

TSR, from your list and using the supposed Rennie "in form" criteria Daugunu and McReight dont automatically make my list. Both have huge potential but Daugunu hasn't even played 80 minutes of rugby this season so I find it hard to satisfy the criteria. Add then Korobeite, Kellaway, Wright and more than likely Hodge and DHP as wing options that for me has him out. McReight the same about 80 minutes of footy this season and a host of experienced players in front of him. No doubting their quality though. Paisami for me wouldn't get a run except the shortage of 13s so I can see why he is there. Campbell I'm not convinced on as there are a host of outside backs I have in front of him.

Obviously if McReight and Daugunu are selected for the future Im surprised then the Tahs have 3 only. Harrison, Maddocks and Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) are all young with huge potential and playing every week.

 

[rugboy]

I don’t see the current squad breakdown been an issue, given the age of many of those Reds players i would imagine a handful of the Reds are there just to get exposure or an introduction to Rennie at the higher level and aren’t likely to feature in the reduced squad which will be more weighted towards the Brumbies.

I don’t think the current win/loss record is worth that much at this point in the season when it comes towards player selections, the Reds have had the hardest draw so far in terms of travel and away games, Waratahs the easiest.

Adam, if the young reds players are selected simply to get exposure and or introduction to Rennie wouldnt it be a fair argument that the young Tahs boys, Harrison, Maddocks, Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) et al.also be exposed?

The reds had the hardest draw? They have played 3 teams with records of 1-5. Tahs have played one team with that record and then 4 of the top 5 teams.

 

[rugboy]

To clarify, if the supposed squad is selected as much for this year as for future development and potential for the next world cup and beyond then I have no problem with 14 Reds selected. Players like McReight, Daugunu etc have huge potential for future national success. I then have issue with only 3 Tahs given some of the promise that a number of those players have for the national set up going forward despite there struggles this season with a new coach and new system.

 

[TSR]

Maddocks has been poor and, date I say it, seems disinterested.

Nawaqanitawase has a lot of promise, and I was a big fan of him being given an opportunity at the start of the season. But he has been exposed as having some serious deficiencies. I wouldn’t be including him. I can understand if they do - but I would suggest that it would be better for his development if he was sent back to Shute Shield.

Harrison I would 100% include. Hooper is a given. Guys like Gordon, Bell & HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) would all be considered I assume - but I don’t think any would be hard done by to be left out. Not sure there is anyone else you can make an argument for. Maybe Simmons for experience but he isn’t in form.