Where to for Super Rugby?

[cyclopath]

Riiiiight.

Australians will turn away from watching the premier rugby league and Aussie rules comps in the world to watch 3rd and 4th rate rugby players have a go.

All because a Sydney team has the chance to beat a Qld or Perth team?

Most Australians won't care about a domestic comp when they know that as soon as any Australian team plays against real competition, whether at Super Rugby or Test level, they are likely to get walloped.

Unfortunately you are spot on. A large number of my friends, nearly all of whom grew up playing rugby, do not watch Super Rugby with any commitment. Maybe a few watched an occasional game in Super Rugby AU. Some of them will go to club rugby a couple of times a year. Nearly all of them watch Rugby League. Every week. Multiple games. They know all the players and they talk about it.
RA has to hope they can drag these fans back to watch rugby.
Dyed in the wool NRL or AFL fans could not give 2 shits about rugby.

 

[sunnyboys]

"Riiiiight.

Australians will turn away from watching the premier rugby league and Aussie rules comps in the world to watch 3rd and 4th rate rugby players have a go.

All because a Sydney team has the chance to beat a Qld or Perth team?

Most Australians won't care about a domestic comp when they know that as soon as any Australian team plays against real competition, whether at Super Rugby or Test level, they are likely to get walloped."

This says everything about how a kiwi sees the rugby world. "real competition" - i guess you mean a kiwi team....

How do you rate the Top 14? none of its teams play nz Super Rugby teams, and the French Test team (like most test teams) rarely beat the ABs. Does make them 3rd and 4th rate??? not worth watching?? oh those foolish french!

Same for the English Premiership! (except they beat the AB's - not sure how they did because they certainly didn't "play the best to be the best").

NZ rugby needs to accept that there are other ways of being a rugby country that doesn't involve constant comparison to them.

 

[Tomikin]

Keep in mind if your going only SRAU you'll significantly cut your logistics costs from Super Rugby.

In adding a UQ & USyd teams they've already got players and coaches and infrastructure, they'd just see an increase in travel & logistics but that'd likely be able to be made up for by the deceased costs from not having to travel overseas etc.

Obviously it's not ideal, but going alone promoting a pair of Club teams is the way to go.

You could potential look at Vikings in Canberra as well, Maybe not the Player Pool Required but obviously have the Money to do something.

 

[Tomikin]

Riiiiight.

Australians will turn away from watching the premier rugby league and Aussie rules comps in the world to watch 3rd and 4th rate rugby players have a go.

All because a Sydney team has the chance to beat a Qld or Perth team?

Most Australians won't care about a domestic comp when they know that as soon as any Australian team plays against real competition, whether at Super Rugby or Test level, they are likely to get walloped.

Did I say they will turn off there current games e.g. afl league. No I said there could be some crossover from mostly league supporters... its not one or the other ffs.

But we will never get there if we get tie our horse to NZ.

 

[Bullrush]

This says everything about how a kiwi sees the rugby world. "real competition" - i guess you mean a kiwi team..

How do you rate the Top 14? none of its teams play nz Super Rugby teams, and the French Test team (like most test teams) rarely beat the ABs. Does make them 3rd and 4th rate??? not worth watching?? oh those foolish french!

Same for the English Premiership! (except they beat the AB's - not sure how they did because they certainly didn't "play the best to be the best").

NZ rugby needs to accept that there are other ways of being a rugby country that doesn't involve constant comparison to them.

I would rate Super Rugby as the best competition in the world bar Tests. At least it used to be. Again - it's no coincidence that the RWC has been won by SANZAAAR nations every time except 2003. NZ, SA and Australia have consistently been the best in the world and personally, I'd like to make sure that NZ and Australia stay that way.

Which is why I have been advocating for the free movement of players and coaches between NZ & Australia. The player depth between the 2 countries can sustain a competitive 10-team comp. NZ & Aus players (AND PI players I would add!!) have been going to Top 14 and NH comps for years, making them better. Let's try and give those guys a bit more incentive to stay closer to home.

 

[hifflepiff]

"Riiiiight.

Australians will turn away from watching the premier rugby league and Aussie rules comps in the world to watch 3rd and 4th rate rugby players have a go.

All because a Sydney team has the chance to beat a Qld or Perth team?

Most Australians won't care about a domestic comp when they know that as soon as any Australian team plays against real competition, whether at Super Rugby or Test level, they are likely to get walloped."

This says everything about how a kiwi sees the rugby world. "real competition" - i guess you mean a kiwi team..

How do you rate the Top 14? none of its teams play nz Super Rugby teams, and the French Test team (like most test teams) rarely beat the ABs. Does make them 3rd and 4th rate??? not worth watching?? oh those foolish french!

Same for the English Premiership! (except they beat the AB's - not sure how they did because they certainly didn't "play the best to be the best").

NZ rugby needs to accept that there are other ways of being a rugby country that doesn't involve constant comparison to them.

There does seem to be a pathology amongst certain NZ Rugby people (and occasionally Aus rugby people bafflingly) where they see the All Blacks and NZ Super teams as the centre of the Rugby universe. I don't think we should be involved to any great extent with an organisation that arrogantly holds us in complete contempt.

What I find most interesting is that these individuals can't see the sand shifting from beneath their feet. Rugby is a growing sport worldwide, with increasing amounts of money overseas and little old NZ won't be the best forever (Australia won't either btw). And when the AB's are a just like everyone else, what will NZ have then?

 

[Zero_Cool]

The problem with using the Vikings is you'd be splitting the Brumbies/ACT playerbase, I don't think they've got the local comp / playerbase to support two Super Rugby teams, Queensland Prem League & Shute Shield have a much larger playerbase.

 

[Bullrush]

Did I say they will turn off there current games e.g. afl league. No I said there could be some crossover from mostly league supporters. its not one or the other ffs.

But we will never get there if we get tie our horse to NZ.

Agree and disagree.

One of the most disheartening things for me since moving to Australia, has been playing club rugby, going to club events - prize-givings/court sessions etc - and the boys are more interested in watching the Raiders than watching the Brumbies. Or trying to talk rugby and they know fk all about the Wallabies or anything else in the rugby world. But they know the whole Raiders roster. I don't think you will get many league fans switching over to watch union games until they are competitive against teams other Super Rugby teams.

I agree that NZ's horse MUST think about helping pull the Australian wagon at least for a little while. Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic about it

 

[Derpus]

I would rate Super Rugby as the best competition in the world bar Tests. At least it used to be. Again - it's no coincidence that the RWC has been won by SANZAAAR nations every time except 2003. NZ, SA and Australia have consistently been the best in the world and personally, I'd like to make sure that NZ and Australia stay that way.

Which is why I have been advocating for the free movement of players and coaches between NZ & Australia. The player depth between the 2 countries can sustain a competitive 10-team comp. NZ & Aus players (AND PI players I would add!!) have been going to Top 14 and NH comps for years, making them better. Let's try and give those guys a bit more incentive to stay closer to home.

Throw in independent oversight and equal share of TV rights evenly divided between all teams and im on board.

Now to draft our pitch to RA and NZRU

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Well considering whats happened in Ausralia over the last week and the warnings now that Co-Vid is going to be part of our lives as we move forward.

It would appear to be the height of stupidity to be planning a cross border competition in 2022

Rugby may very well find its financial model under severe stress because globe trotting around the world playing rugby Tests may not be the wisest way of earning a quid for a few years.

Interesting rugby follows the same argument for domestic as is the case for push to reboot our manufacturing after years of ofshoring because of the same risks on relying on overseas. I think the continuing challenges of covid alone is making the domestic conference option the only certain option to pursue.

 

[Dan54]

Throw in independent oversight and equal share of TV rights evenly divided between all teams and im on board.

Now to draft our pitch to RA and NZRU

What equal share of TV rights? The agreement that they work under is that each Rugby union get's theur own tv deal, but apparently also get rights to each others comps etc free. So Australia are getting free rights to ITM cup, MAB games as well as the comps both have. Do either board actually have a seperate payment for different comps?
They may do , but I have never seen how much NZE gets for Super, ITM etc etc , neither have I seen where RA gets seperate payments for Super etc. They may do, but I have never seen it, by all means I would be happy to be proved wrong.
Originally Sanzaar negotiated for comps with TV, but it got stopped. I believe the RC is same, they don't actually have a seperate payment for that either.

 

[Dan54]

Dan, Andy Marinos and Mark Robinson are representatives of the board and have been talking on a regular basis, and they've confirmed that.

I'm unsure of what agenda you're driving by suggesting the boards of NZRU and RA haven't talked about TT at all, if that were true(which it isn't) then it would just demonstrate both boards are completely unprofessional and not fit the job at task.

Well if neither board know what they want I would agree, listen don't shoot me it was Hamish who said RA couldn't agree.

 

[Derpus]

What equal share of TV rights? The agreement that they work under is that each Rugby union get's theur own tv deal, but apparently also get rights to each others comps etc free. So Australia are getting free rights to ITM cup, MAB games as well as the comps both have. Do either board actually have a seperate payment for different comps?
They may do , but I have never seen how much NZE gets for Super, ITM etc etc , neither have I seen where RA gets seperate payments for Super etc. They may do, but I have never seen it, by all means I would be happy to be proved wrong.
Originally Sanzaar negotiated for comps with TV, but it got stopped. I believe the RC is same, they don't actually have a seperate payment for that either.

I dunno Dan. That's all fine print shit for someone who actually knows. I'm a big pictures kinda guy.

 

[Dan54]

I dunno Dan. That's all fine print shit for someone who actually knows. I'm a big pictures kinda guy.

Fair enough mate, I just trying to work out what the actual problem supposedly is with it.

 

[Derpus]

Fair enough mate, I just trying to work out what the actual problem supposedly is with it.

It's just to ensure the comp is run as an end in itself and each team has a similar amount of resources available.

 

[Dan54]

you see all the angst played out in the media that shows nzru and RA are not collaborating very well in the design of the (nzru) TT competition as much as you see the angst in these threads. The lesson in this for champions league with nz and Japan is set up the competition under a sanzaar type body.

I also find it ridiculous you suggesting a cross border competition like TT is only about ra sorting out its oz problems and nzru sorting out its nzr problems and indeed you make the case why we need an independent organisation overseeing the design and running of the TT competition. As this is about making a product that appeals to fans and current design fails on that and hence requires all parties to come together and take responsibility to fix it. That is where you are so wrong in failing to understand that as nzru taking lead role in design of TT so they have to take responsibility with RA to fix it if they want us in.

See we agree and Robinson said on TV at very beginning that a seperate board was needed. But you keep saying NZRU TT comp, but it's not, if it TT it's both parties comp. And I agree RA should say what they want tweaked or changed , by all means.

But if they do come up with a comp and RA sign up for it ,and you don't like it, surely it's not NZR's fault. RA's board should never sign up to something they not happy with, so if they do sign up (as they have in past), you will admit in no way is it NZR's fault. Mate even you say sanzaar type body is the way to go. Then you say NZR was responsible somehow for RA's problem within that comp. RA had as many votes as SA and NZR in the way Sanzaar was run.
Funnily enough you and I agree with a lot, only a couple of things we don't , but everyone not taking responsibilty for thei own game is the main one.

 

[Adam84]

Well if neither board know what they want I would agree, listen don't shoot me it was Hamish who said RA couldn't agree.

Dan, i was disagreeing with your claim that the RA & NZRU board haven't spoken about TT.

 

[Adam84]

See we agree and Robinson said on TV at very beginning that a seperate board was needed. But you keep saying NZRU TT comp, but it's not, if it TT it's both parties comp. And I agree RA should say what they want tweaked or changed , by all means.

But if they do come up with a comp and RA sign up for it ,and you don't like it, surely it's not NZR's fault. RA's board should never sign up to something they not happy with, so if they do sign up (as they have in past), you will admit in no way is it NZR's fault. Mate even you say sanzaar type body is the way to go. Then you say NZR was responsible somehow for RA's problem within that comp. RA had as many votes as SA and NZR in the way Sanzaar was run.
Funnily enough you and I agree with a lot, only a couple of things we don't , but everyone not taking responsibilty for thei own game is the main one.

where's this seperate board then? at the moment its lip service and nothing more..

 

[Dan54]

It's just to ensure the comp is run as an end in itself and each team has a similar amount of resources available.

Agree mate, so I guess the boards have to negotiate proper deals with THEIR own tv stations?
And do you think Force who seem to have a few dollars more than say Rebels should have to split it with them?

 

[Dan54]

where's this seperate board then? at the moment its lip service and nothing more..

Yep, I also ask that, don't NZR and RA have to both set it up, surely you can't let one country do it, otherwise it not neutral.