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Subbies 2023!

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Still unsure about all these odd team comps though. Creates too many weeks off and generally not when the club needs them. Your bye week you could have 90% of your club available and then the next week down to 50% when you have to roll out full teams.

Can be quite a pickle but if guys know they've got some guaranteed weeks off during season, that can also be a benefit, particularly if you've only just got enough numbers to start with.

IMHO having 6 clubs and 3 rounds is generally less appealing than 7 clubs with 2 rounds including 2 bye rounds - understanding of course that the club whose bye round comes up against the long weekend or wet weather weekend is also less than ideal.

I'm not sure it will be a major factor for smaller clubs in terms of survival, compared to the usual issues of player recruitment, retention, finances, and volunteer burnout.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
All this frustration about having un even teams
Am I the only person who is happy the comp is actually running this year and we are playing rugby?

Nah I'm with ya. Despite all the stress of pre-season and wondering what will happen at the club, it is great to have something to focus on and get some Men's Shed time with the boys at training with the prospect of Game Day Saturday.

If I know which weekends are bye weekends, I can plan camping trips. Barely get to go in the cold weather.
 

The ultimate ressie

Herbert Moran (7)
Nah I'm with ya. Despite all the stress of pre-season and wondering what will happen at the club, it is great to have something to focus on and get some Men's Shed time with the boys at training with the prospect of Game Day Saturday.

If I know which weekends are bye weekends, I can plan camping trips. Barely get to go in the cold weather.
Planned byes = weekends with the family
I do not see a negative here
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Just saw Drummoyne insta has their draw

 
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Denistone_Dennis

Chris McKivat (8)
Yeah I heard that. I was a little surprised as I thought of all the Div 3 teams who played Div last year you guys could have adapted best over time.
 

WoodyWoodsman

Sydney Middleton (9)
You will find on the subbies website that division 1 teams have been amended (Knox removed). May not be too long before we start seeing some draws
Yea, nah. As long as we have Division 1 sorted, the rest of the competitions can get stuffed. If you want to be acceptable, pick up your game and run 5 grades and colts like division 1.
Oh wait, run 4 grades and colts like division 1.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Question for the forum:

if you put Drummoyne or Petersham down into Division 2, how many of the DIv 2 clubs would have stay there or ask to go down to Div 3?

For this scenario - and I say that as I don't know the final structure of Divs 2 and 3 - let's say it was Drummoyne who dropped, and use Ned's Div 2 list for reference in the absence of anything final:

Div 2: (7 Clubs - Starts April 1)
1 - Briars, 2 - Hawkesbury Valley, 3 - Hills, 4 - Lindfield, 5 - Newport, 6 - UNSW, 7 - Knox* (May swap D3)

I'm sure a few of those clubs would love the challenge of taking on Drummoyne. The first time around, at least.
Some might decide discretion is the better part of valour, and ask to go to Div 3.
Remember: some clubs weren't going to stay in Div 2 back in 2022 if Pats and HH stayed for a 6-club comp.

If two clubs want out (Knox surely), we are now at a 6-club Div 2, which is 15 rounds and a potential hammering of all and sundry by an angry Drummoyne across the Grades (I well remember Beecroft dropping to 4th Division and winning absolutely everything).

You've gone from 9-7 to 8-6 in pretty short order for 2023. And maybe wrecked a couple of clubs for 2024 into the deal. Bargain.

Of course, the Board could force someone to stay there to make 7 minimum, in which case the cries of "Subbies are destroying this great club!" will be heard from Mawson Station to the South China Sea, but let's move on, hmm?

Looking at Ned's other list (again, in the absence of anything final):

Div 3: (7 Clubs - Starts April 1)
1 - Barker, 2 - Beecroft, 3 - Epping, 4 - Harlequins, 5 - Manly, 6 - Old Ignatians, 7 - Harbour* (May swap D2)

In our scenario, two of the clubs from Div 2 drop into here, giving us 9. We'd prefer no more than 8, right? Of those 9 clubs, 3 don't have Colts at last report (Epping, Savers, Harbour), which probably means they're on the list to go before the others.

Which one do we pick?
* Epping won't want to go because they want their 3 Grades playing together. And fair enough.
* Savers want to grow as well, and getting 3 Grades is the quickest way to stabilise that.
* Nobody in the lower Divisions really wants to play Harbour any more because they're waaaaay too good.

Good luck sorting that out. Maybe find a Colts side to backfill Epping and Savers and relegate Harbour again. Sucks if they end up in your division as everyone is playing for silver at that point.

Whatever happens, you have moved from 9-7-7 (23) to 8-6-8 (22) to satisfy this need for even numbers. Maybe it could stick at 8-7-8 if only one club left Div 2 after Drummoyne showed up.

The likely outcome is Drummoyne lay waste to Div 2, go back up, and promotion/relegation resumes with someone coming down.

IF there is a Div 2 left to come down into ...
 

Denistone_Dennis

Chris McKivat (8)
Fair enough. Assuming that's all valid (no reason not to), why not go the other way and take newport, who applied to go up?

Potentially makes Division 2 more palatable for those currently looking to avoid at all costs.

The Harbour thing is difficult. They'd probably be a big shout of winning the comp in Div 2, but 2 Grades and no colts up there just because they are beating everyone doesn't work either.
 

Waterloo_Ned

Herbert Moran (7)
I don't think anyone outside of Knox would be bothered by Drummoyne coming down. It is a different tale than that of Hunters Hill who went a few years without losing a game in 1s/2s in Div 2.
 

TheBigArvo

Larry Dwyer (12)
Question for the forum:

if you put Drummoyne or Petersham down into Division 2, how many of the DIv 2 clubs would have stay there or ask to go down to Div 3?

For this scenario - and I say that as I don't know the final structure of Divs 2 and 3 - let's say it was Drummoyne who dropped, and use Ned's Div 2 list for reference in the absence of anything final:



I'm sure a few of those clubs would love the challenge of taking on Drummoyne. The first time around, at least.
Some might decide discretion is the better part of valour, and ask to go to Div 3.
Remember: some clubs weren't going to stay in Div 2 back in 2022 if Pats and HH stayed for a 6-club comp.

If two clubs want out (Knox surely), we are now at a 6-club Div 2, which is 15 rounds and a potential hammering of all and sundry by an angry Drummoyne across the Grades (I well remember Beecroft dropping to 4th Division and winning absolutely everything).

You've gone from 9-7 to 8-6 in pretty short order for 2023. And maybe wrecked a couple of clubs for 2024 into the deal. Bargain.

Of course, the Board could force someone to stay there to make 7 minimum, in which case the cries of "Subbies are destroying this great club!" will be heard from Mawson Station to the South China Sea, but let's move on, hmm?

Looking at Ned's other list (again, in the absence of anything final):



In our scenario, two of the clubs from Div 2 drop into here, giving us 9. We'd prefer no more than 8, right? Of those 9 clubs, 3 don't have Colts at last report (Epping, Savers, Harbour), which probably means they're on the list to go before the others.

Which one do we pick?
* Epping won't want to go because they want their 3 Grades playing together. And fair enough.
* Savers want to grow as well, and getting 3 Grades is the quickest way to stabilise that.
* Nobody in the lower Divisions really wants to play Harbour any more because they're waaaaay too good.

Good luck sorting that out. Maybe find a Colts side to backfill Epping and Savers and relegate Harbour again. Sucks if they end up in your division as everyone is playing for silver at that point.

Whatever happens, you have moved from 9-7-7 (23) to 8-6-8 (22) to satisfy this need for even numbers. Maybe it could stick at 8-7-8 if only one club left Div 2 after Drummoyne showed up.

The likely outcome is Drummoyne lay waste to Div 2, go back up, and promotion/relegation resumes with someone coming down.

IF there is a Div 2 left to come down into ...
I think that’s a fair question and a 6 team Div 2 with a. “Strong” Drummoyne/Petersham isn’t ideal but the ultimate question is what happens next year if we are in the same positions and these clubs struggle in Div 1 for another year and end up sliding straight past Div 2(and maybe 3 for that matter).

Epping were demoted last year from Div 2 to 4 from a decision made by the board on the fact that they couldn’t meet the requirements of that division and those Div 4 clubs were unhappy about it and didn’t get a say in it. Now we are saying that Drummoyne/Petersham should stay in Div 1 to protect the Div 2 clubs? Even though they struggled to meet the requirements of Div 1 last year.

Ultimately the goal is to get back to the 8 team Divisional structure with clubs playing clubs with similar numbers. I just can’t see how a 9 team top division helps this whilst the lowest divisions are struggling. I worry for our comp structure in a few years and what happens when the gulf between the top and bottom clubs grows.

I don’t envy the job of the Board and Tim. It appears to be a loose loose situation at the moment.
 

footy_footy

Sydney Middleton (9)
I think you’ll find the Newport promotion argument is academic as they did not apply. Like many clubs, once the new season rolls around and you learn of retirements, players leaving and the like you realise that the preceding year isn’t always a good indicator of the year ahead!

I don’t quite understand why Subbies didn’t just relegate Drummoyne (or Petersham). In recent times, both St Pat’s and Hunters Hill have been relegated, which has seemingly been to their benefit as they have rebuilt themselves to be sustainable Division 1 clubs.

Easy from the cheap sheets though - Drummoyne may well prove us wrong and 2022 was only a minor hiccup!
 

Heavyd

Arch Winning (36)
I don't think anyone outside of Knox would be bothered by Drummoyne coming down. It is a different tale than that of Hunters Hill who went a few years without losing a game in 1s/2s in Div 2.

Agree no one would be bothered. Newport beat HH the year before they went up and both HH and St Pats were playing quality footy throughout the grades and were ready for the step up but they werent unbeatable.

Looking at last year for the dirty reds
1st: 7th (5 wins)
2nds: 7th (5 wins)
Colts: 8th (5 wins)
3rds: 9th (3 wins)
4ths: 7th (4 wins)

Hardly stuff that would scare Newport, UNSW, Lindfield, Hills or Hawkesbury Valley. I think they'd actually get towelled up in most grades by the peasants in Div 2.
 
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