Springboks v Wallabies, Loftus Versfeld, Sun 9th Jul 1.05am AEST

[KOB1987]

I have no problems with Richie Arnold getting another shot at sea level next week, maybe even start him, but I’m certainly not penning him into our RWC squad just yet.

 

[Doritos Day]

Lack of heat at the breakdown was shocking

 

[dru]

2. Uelese (still can’t throw but who else we got ffs)

Not for mine. The Hooker has to do the day job which for me starts in the lineout. Porecki easily on that basis. Sure, the day job is also the scrum - I'm looking for Bell and Tupou to return before making that the reason to accept poor lineout results.

 

[stillmissit]

Now the line outs (there were plenty):

First Half
<Porecki hooker; 5 man lineout unless stated otherwise>
0'35" Gold throw to IV (Frost), overthrow regained by Hodge - Win Gold
1'15" Gold throw to II (Tom), Win Gold
3'50" Gold throw to front (Slipper), Win Gold
4'20" Gold throw to III (Frost), Win Gold
6'00" Gold throw to II (Tom), Win Gold
7'00" Gold throw to III (Frost), messy, lost, regained AAA. Win Gold.
18'30" Bok throw, overthrow not straight, Win Gold
20'50" Bok throw, Green win
21'26" Gold throw to II (Tom), Win Gold ,7 man line out from the 20m>
22'40" Gold throw to II (Frost), Win Gold
26'00" Gold throw to II (Frost), messy but Win Gold
29'00 Bok throw, Bok win
32'00" Gold throw to III (Frost), messy, Slipper, Win Gold
34'14" Bok throw, Bok win
35'30" Bok throw, Bok Win
37'00" Gold throw to II (Frost), Gold Win
30'10" Bok throw, Bok win

Bok 5 wins from 6 throws; Wallabies 11 wins from 12 throws

Second Half
40'20" Bok throw and win (Frost with hand to ball)
42'30" Bok throw and win
44'00" Bok throw bow win
46'30" Gold throw to II (Samu), Win Gold
48'30 Bok throw, overthrow regain Quade, Win Gold
49'50" Bok throw Bok Win
53'30" Bok throw Bok win
<Porecki off>
55'00" Bok throw, Frost win, Gold Win
55'40" Uelese on, Samu off <scrum change>
57'50" Bok throw, Frost win - Gold Win
59'40" Bok throw Bok win
62'30" Gold throw to II (Samu), Gold win
63'30" Gold throw to III (Frost) clean take but not straight, Bok win
65'12" Bok throw Bok Win
73'30" Bok throw, Bok Win (Frost disrupting)
79'--" Gold throw to II (Samu) clean take but not straight Bok Win

Bok 10 wins from 11 throws; Wallabies 2 wins from 4 throws.
Porecki with 2 not straight from 3 throws and all three were to the front end of the lineout.

Dru, Thanks for this. I was surprised that Eddie didn't start with Frost and Arnold and bring Skelton on to finish, due to altitude for the big guy, but it didn't seem to affect our first half lineout or Skelton's work rate. The LO was about the only OK area in our game. Tom Hooper went better than I expected in the LO and got around the paddock well, I think he is worth continuing with but via the bench.

 

[Pokinacha]

Vailanu or Latu are better options than Uelese. Both strong scrummagers and have good hands. Latu’s tackling might be a negative but when we just got so thoroughly outplayed what else is there to lose?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

 

[KOB1987]

Vailanu or Latu are better options than Uelese. Both strong scrummagers and have good hands. Latu’s tackling might be a negative but when we just got so thoroughly outplayed what else is there to lose?

I was hoping Latu might have been our saviour but the fact he ended up playing club rugby rules a line through him. Vailanu, not this year.

 

[stillmissit]

Good work Eddie giving the captaincy to Slipper & Hooper because now the best starting side can’t happen.

What the FUCK did he see in Vunivalu.

Nothing apart from he'd been a good leaguey who he hoped could be a hidden gem! Too well hidden I reckon.

If this is the side that is building towards RWC there will be some serious discussions. Let's hope Eddie listens to someone other than himself.

 

[KOB1987]

Dru, Thanks for this. I was surprised that Eddie didn't start with Frost and Arnold and bring Skelton on to finish, due to altitude for the big guy, but it didn't seem to affect our first half lineout or Skelton's work rate. The LO was about the only OK area in our game. Tom Hooper went better than I expected in the LO and got around the paddock well, I think he is worth continuing with but via the bench.

T Hooper was good in the lineout but got found out around the paddock. Might be long term solution at 6, but not this year for mine. He needed to knock it out of the park to displace Holloway and/or Leota.

 

[stillmissit]

I was hoping Latu might have been our saviour but the fact he ended up playing club rugby rules a line through him. Vailanu, not this year.

I wonder what didn't or did happen to him at the Tahs?

 

[molman]

No worries mate. I get it. Rather tired myself.

Thanks for your summary of the scrums.

I think the problem with your last bit is that saying the lineout wasn’t poor overall except for Uelese’s throws seems a bit like saying the steak was good except that it was tough.

Anyway - first game of a new era. Certainly disappointing but the good thing with sport is you get another crack next week. I’m very keen to see the response from Eddie and the players.

I guess I don't chalk that up as the overall lineout being poor as much as a specific player. It didn't feel like the lineout was fundamentally not functioning "ok" considering the player selections we had. Maybe I was just a little surprised it operated as well as it did. The win/loss lineout stats arn't too bad, though as @dru noted it certaintly wasn't always clean, but not unexpected when Frost is your target more often than not.

 

[stillmissit]

T Hooper was good in the lineout but got found out around the paddock. Might be long term solution at 6, but not this year for mine. He needed to knock it out of the park to displace Holloway and/or Leota.

KOB, I think the whole Effing pack got found out around the paddock. Apologies to Frost...

 

[molman]

Now the line outs (there were plenty):

First Half
<Porecki hooker; 5 man lineout unless stated otherwise>
0'35" Gold throw to IV (Frost), overthrow regained by Hodge - Win Gold
1'15" Gold throw to II (Tom), Win Gold
3'50" Gold throw to front (Slipper), Win Gold
4'20" Gold throw to III (Frost), Win Gold
6'00" Gold throw to II (Tom), Win Gold
7'00" Gold throw to III (Frost), messy, lost, regained AAA. Win Gold.
18'30" Bok throw, overthrow not straight, Win Gold
20'50" Bok throw, Green win
21'26" Gold throw to II (Tom), Win Gold ,7 man line out from the 20m>
22'40" Gold throw to II (Frost), Win Gold
26'00" Gold throw to II (Frost), messy but Win Gold
29'00 Bok throw, Bok win
32'00" Gold throw to III (Frost), messy, Slipper, Win Gold
34'14" Bok throw, Bok win
35'30" Bok throw, Bok Win
37'00" Gold throw to II (Frost), Gold Win
30'10" Bok throw, Bok win

Bok 5 wins from 6 throws; Wallabies 11 wins from 12 throws

Second Half
40'20" Bok throw and win (Frost with hand to ball)
42'30" Bok throw and win
44'00" Bok throw bow win
46'30" Gold throw to II (Samu), Win Gold
48'30 Bok throw, overthrow regain Quade, Win Gold
49'50" Bok throw Bok Win
53'30" Bok throw Bok win
<Porecki off>
55'00" Bok throw, Frost win, Gold Win
55'40" Uelese on, Samu off <scrum change>
57'50" Bok throw, Frost win - Gold Win
59'40" Bok throw Bok win
62'30" Gold throw to II (Samu), Gold win
63'30" Gold throw to III (Frost) clean take but not straight, Bok win
65'12" Bok throw Bok Win
73'30" Bok throw, Bok Win (Frost disrupting)
79'--" Gold throw to II (Samu) clean take but not straight Bok Win

Bok 10 wins from 11 throws; Wallabies 2 wins from 4 throws.
Porecki with 2 not straight from 3 throws and all three were to the front end of the lineout.

Porecki or Uelese?

 

[KOB1987]

KOB, I think the whole Effing pack got found out around the paddock. Apologies to Frost...

That is true but at least we know physicality is a strong aspect of Jed’s game.

 

[Fireworks]

- Porecki & Hooper (and McReight) you are all too fucking small. Go away.

McReight is small but at least more effective (than Hooper) at disrupting/slowing down ball. The Boks were destructive in the first few phases off set piece playing around the corner, dominating the collision and playing off lightening quick front foot ball. Yes, it all starts at the set piece but have to recognise that it's hard to stop that momentum unless players are hard at the breakdown/are dominant in the tackle.

 

[stillmissit]

That is true but at least we know physicality is a strong aspect of Jed’s game.

We have both agreed on that for a while.

 

[stillmissit]

McReight is small but at least more effective (than Hooper) at disrupting/slowing down ball. The Boks were destructive in the first few phases off set piece playing around the corner, dominating the collision and playing off lightening quick front foot ball. Yes, it all starts at the set piece but have to recognise that it's hard to stop that momentum unless players are hard at the breakdown/are dominant in the tackle.

I wish we would learn that backing off the breakdown and ignoring dominant tackling has major downsides, that oppose the idea of having more players in the D.

 

[dru]

Porecki or Uelese?

Cheers. Correcting now.

 

[Equalizer]

Nothing apart from he'd been a good leaguey who he hoped could be a hidden gem! Too well hidden I reckon.

If this is the side that is building towards RWC there will be some serious discussions. Let's hope Eddie listens to someone other than himself.

The Wallabies are out of time as usual. Only 3 or 4 more game before the WC starts and still haven't got a settled team let alone one that has time to gel.

 

[molman]

The stats say it all.

View attachment 16803

It was comprehensive. Men v boys.

I am not as down on QC (Quade Cooper) (Quade Cooper) and Kerevi as they are making their way back. Gordon's impact was great, but let's keep giving him time off then bench. Hodge was a non-entity at 12 so let Samu play with Quade.

I was really disappointed in White. I thought he was option taking was pretty damn average. So you had both halves offering not much but both behind a pack that was monstered.

Like many suggested, selection was odd but I think most of us wanted Eddie to have his time. But none really paid off. Vunivalu definitely note, Hooper (T) not really. Skelton was good but to throw him straight into altitude was rough.

Hooper is a different player now. You sense he is very aware of contact now. He's not the same kamikaze player he once was - is the current version enough? I don't think so. I McReight deserves a shot by am open to Langi Gleeson as a 7 option, v the Boks at least.

The result was shit but with a whole new coaching team across the board, I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater yet. Except for Vunivalu.

Fair reflection. Agree neither QC (Quade Cooper) or Kerevi are not the issues and contextually both coming back from injuries. Hodge was part of a plan that really didn't work. I suspect White was playing a little to script, but I was equally critical.

Re: Hooper. I'm a fan and generally think he's often been maligned by some at times, but I agree. He was looking refreshed when he came back from Japan, but he really hasn't looked the same for awhile, especially after withdrawing from the Wallabies tour of Argentina. That said, I think you'll still find if you watch the Wallabies when defending, he was often working hard to plug some holes, helped shore up that line. I'm not sure of his tackle count, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was well up there for the team.

But yes, I'd be looking to McReight, though I feel that in the current game all players need to become fetchers, as opposed to the man wearing 7, ala Pocock, Smith etc. It was very apparent in the U20's v. Ireland that this is how they are training and playing the game up north with lots of the boys hard on the ball across the park.