biggsy
Chilla Wilson (44)
about 5 or more scrums where the tahs went early and didn't get pinned.... lucky the 2nd ref was useless.. besides that, the tahs scrums were better
Reds vs Waratahs, 2011R10
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about 5 or more scrums where the tahs went early and didn't get pinned.... lucky the 2nd ref was useless.. besides that, the tahs scrums were better
biggsy
Chilla Wilson (44)
For what, having a opinion
Slim mate you are way off.
I would recommend 'peanut' or 'muppet'. Or 'ill-informed nuffy'.
Actually idiot is pretty good.
If your opinion is 'Drew Mitchell deserved a broken leg for leaving QLD' then yes you are a fucking idiot, and need to watch what you say. I understand you are passionate about your state but that takes things WAY too far. Would you say that to him in person?
vidiot
John Solomon (38)
People make their own decisions. Some outcomes are meant to be, and for the best.
Mitchell is one of my favorite players, watching him break tackles in traffic is one of the joys of rugby. But it wouldn't matter if he was the least capable, least likeable super journeyman.
It's terrible to see someone - anyone - injured that way, and unacceptable to crow about it.
The angst, whining and adolescence in this thread - from parties on both sides - is pathetic.
The tahs were unlucky, but it's a game and luck plays a part. They could have made their own luck if they had a functional backline. The refs could have made alternate decisions. The fact that there were two refs was part of the problem.
Any whinging about the breakdown being managed unfairly is just that, and while it is understandable that people vent after the triumph or defeat, it can be tiring to read when it is so insightless.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Opinion?
Langthorne
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Well I'm going to wade into this one, with an edited version of my post on the front page.
When Walsh didn't come back on for the second half I thought he'd been subbed for a poor performance, but then the new ref (Smith?) had me pining for Aussie Steve pretty quickly.
Surely after so many scrum infringements in their own 22 there should have been a penalty try. I don't believe that every set of scrums should mean a the 'number of allowed scrum penalties' meter should be set to zero. Collapsed scrums aren't just an infringement that may potentially prevent a try (as diving over a ruck or handling on the ground might), they are dangerous. If those were ruck infringements there would have been a card issued. A pretty much certain try was prevented, it was a repeated offence, and it was dangerous (I know Taf wasn't great going into those scrums, but I'm pretty sure the collapses didn't help). Try, card, game.
Usually when a referee detects a knock on they put out their arm to indicate advantage. Anyone who has the facility might be interested to review the 'knock on' before the Beale 'try'. The 'knock on' looked to be a down and back (hence the direction the ball moved), and the ref was not interested in it at all until Beale had crossed for the 'try' quite some time later. If he really thought it was a knock on why didn't he call it and pull it up? There was no advantage being played. Try, game.
The rolling maul try was a tough one. I can accept that the video man couldn't see a grounding, but I can't accept the call that the ball had not crossed the try line - the whole fucking Waratah plus hangers on was over the line! Probably a try, at the very least a 5 scrum (but see above for what utter scrum dominance gets you).
On high tackles - Cross' high tackle was poor, and rightly penalised. Unfortunately Cooper made a high tackle (well a tackle by his standards) on Turner in the second half - nothing happens at all (the refs obviously hate Turner as he copped an unheralded one last week too). Penalty.
All in all we didn't learn much from that match, but many things were reinforced - Cross is too slow, the Waratahs backs are lacking direction and flair, the Reds backs have loads of flair and pace, the Reds scrum is soft as shit (like the Wallabies scrum when there are too many Reds in it), Cooper is super flaky and brilliant in turns.
The Reds' defensive effort in the second half was a highlight. I am a little disappointed that the Waratahs didn't test it better, but they will struggle to win matches if they have to always rely on good refereeing.
There was one advantage to pounding the Reds scrum and line during the second half for so long - the Reds didn't have the ball, so their opportunities for cutting lose with their backline were severely limited.
I was surprised that the Reds didn't target Cross more, and I'm sure other opponents will have been taking notes (again). The Tahs pack did pretty well (well enough to take the honours, although the lineouts were evenly sloppy), so I would keep the same or similar line up, maybe with an aim to ruck, maul or pick and drive but don't stay static for so long. In the backs, whether or not Barnes is back, I think Turner or Kingston should be given a run at 13. Both are quick and can tackle (unless Horne is due back for a couple of games between injuries). Mitchell is a big loss for the Waratahs and the Wallabies. Burgess - no more kicking, and beyond that do what you like but do it fast.
The Reds have some scrum issues to sort out (understatement), and (like the Tahs) could tidy up their lineout. Cooper kicked like shit, but that is part of the package when dealing with mercurial talent. The Reds pack had a real (recent Deans) Wallaby feel to it - workrate without power, joke scrum, dogged defending.
Anyway, bad luck Waratahs, good luck to you Reds. I'll continue watching in hope rather than expectation.
When Walsh didn't come back on for the second half I thought he'd been subbed for a poor performance, but then the new ref (Smith?) had me pining for Aussie Steve pretty quickly.
Surely after so many scrum infringements in their own 22 there should have been a penalty try. I don't believe that every set of scrums should mean a the 'number of allowed scrum penalties' meter should be set to zero. Collapsed scrums aren't just an infringement that may potentially prevent a try (as diving over a ruck or handling on the ground might), they are dangerous. If those were ruck infringements there would have been a card issued. A pretty much certain try was prevented, it was a repeated offence, and it was dangerous (I know Taf wasn't great going into those scrums, but I'm pretty sure the collapses didn't help). Try, card, game.
Usually when a referee detects a knock on they put out their arm to indicate advantage. Anyone who has the facility might be interested to review the 'knock on' before the Beale 'try'. The 'knock on' looked to be a down and back (hence the direction the ball moved), and the ref was not interested in it at all until Beale had crossed for the 'try' quite some time later. If he really thought it was a knock on why didn't he call it and pull it up? There was no advantage being played. Try, game.
The rolling maul try was a tough one. I can accept that the video man couldn't see a grounding, but I can't accept the call that the ball had not crossed the try line - the whole fucking Waratah plus hangers on was over the line! Probably a try, at the very least a 5 scrum (but see above for what utter scrum dominance gets you).
On high tackles - Cross' high tackle was poor, and rightly penalised. Unfortunately Cooper made a high tackle (well a tackle by his standards) on Turner in the second half - nothing happens at all (the refs obviously hate Turner as he copped an unheralded one last week too). Penalty.
All in all we didn't learn much from that match, but many things were reinforced - Cross is too slow, the Waratahs backs are lacking direction and flair, the Reds backs have loads of flair and pace, the Reds scrum is soft as shit (like the Wallabies scrum when there are too many Reds in it), Cooper is super flaky and brilliant in turns.
The Reds' defensive effort in the second half was a highlight. I am a little disappointed that the Waratahs didn't test it better, but they will struggle to win matches if they have to always rely on good refereeing.
There was one advantage to pounding the Reds scrum and line during the second half for so long - the Reds didn't have the ball, so their opportunities for cutting lose with their backline were severely limited.
I was surprised that the Reds didn't target Cross more, and I'm sure other opponents will have been taking notes (again). The Tahs pack did pretty well (well enough to take the honours, although the lineouts were evenly sloppy), so I would keep the same or similar line up, maybe with an aim to ruck, maul or pick and drive but don't stay static for so long. In the backs, whether or not Barnes is back, I think Turner or Kingston should be given a run at 13. Both are quick and can tackle (unless Horne is due back for a couple of games between injuries). Mitchell is a big loss for the Waratahs and the Wallabies. Burgess - no more kicking, and beyond that do what you like but do it fast.
The Reds have some scrum issues to sort out (understatement), and (like the Tahs) could tidy up their lineout. Cooper kicked like shit, but that is part of the package when dealing with mercurial talent. The Reds pack had a real (recent Deans) Wallaby feel to it - workrate without power, joke scrum, dogged defending.
Anyway, bad luck Waratahs, good luck to you Reds. I'll continue watching in hope rather than expectation.
C
chief
Guest
Some of the posts in this thread are quite simply disgusting sitting on the scale of downright stupidity, to overzealous 'statesmanship'.
I'll point out to the Penalty Try hopefuls, that I don't believe there was a case for a penalty try, you have to be absolutely certain to award one, I wasn't certain a try would have been scored, but I do believe it was a cynical collapse and therefore a Yellow Card, but had that been the case then the Reds wouldn't have had a Front Row I think. It would have had to be uncontested, as Daly was injured and I don't think Fainga'a can play prop.
The Reds defence in that half, was amazing, I was shaking at some points it was that good. I loved every minute of that game, as a lot of people would, because that was some of the most tense Rugby I have ever seen. That defence was ruthless, and it was like a barricade.
Incredibly sad news about Mitchell, he would have been a great asset for the RWC, and man he was in great form, especially that he has initiated a fantastic partnership with the Wallabies backline. Very, very sad news, and the post by Biggsy was just downright bigoted.
I'll point out to the Penalty Try hopefuls, that I don't believe there was a case for a penalty try, you have to be absolutely certain to award one, I wasn't certain a try would have been scored, but I do believe it was a cynical collapse and therefore a Yellow Card, but had that been the case then the Reds wouldn't have had a Front Row I think. It would have had to be uncontested, as Daly was injured and I don't think Fainga'a can play prop.
The Reds defence in that half, was amazing, I was shaking at some points it was that good. I loved every minute of that game, as a lot of people would, because that was some of the most tense Rugby I have ever seen. That defence was ruthless, and it was like a barricade.
Incredibly sad news about Mitchell, he would have been a great asset for the RWC, and man he was in great form, especially that he has initiated a fantastic partnership with the Wallabies backline. Very, very sad news, and the post by Biggsy was just downright bigoted.
Have to agree re penalty try. They were never close enough to getting the scrum over that it could be called. YC maybe, have seen them for as much before.
I agree with the rest of your post too - too much lunatic fringe posting in this thread.
rugbysmartarse
Alan Cameron (40)
What happened when the tahs took the 3 was they got the ball deep in their half and with no foresight kicked it back to the reds.
One of their strengths last year was the ability to hold the ball from their own half and put pressure on opposition defense. This has gone put the window, and first option anywhere on the park is to kick. That is the real concern for the tahs
One of their strengths last year was the ability to hold the ball from their own half and put pressure on opposition defense. This has gone put the window, and first option anywhere on the park is to kick. That is the real concern for the tahs
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
And they were bad kicks as well, right down the throat of a Reds back every time.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Well, that's to be expected of any thread involving Queenslanders...
Slim, you're not helping!!
Plenty from both sides, don't need the neutrals starting a 3-way barney!
maxdacat
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
the commentators also mentioned a guy called "Timanu" playing for NSW. Ethnic names can be tough sometimes.
That's OK Slim. I am in Canberra for the weekend, imagine how I feel?
That said, the weather is beautiful, and we're having a great time. Nice place in Autumn.
Well done to the Reds, one moment of brilliance from Cooper and attitude got them home from there.
As for the "critics" of the Tahs approach, they had lost all their real attacking threats except Beale. The game was a shit fight with all phases of the game being a crap shoot, except for the scrum where they had clear dominance.
In the end, Link was smart enough to get Fainga'a off and bring a decent hooker at the right moment and one one decent scrum in a series of poo was enough. That broke the sequence of clear domination and kept the Reds from losing a player and a penalty try.
For the Reds, I was surprised Link didn't send out word for Harris to take over the kicking from hand duties, Cooper was dire in the second half as the pressure built. Slipper is now clearly the most important player in the Reds team, he and Hanson need to be starting as the comp ramps up, tightens up and gets hard - as it always does.
For the Tahs, too much attacking threat is gone from the side. We have the tight defenders and workers (Burgess, Carter, Turner) but apart from Beale the threat is gone and it is easy for sides to mark up on the one danger.
As for the "critics" of the Tahs approach, they had lost all their real attacking threats except Beale. The game was a shit fight with all phases of the game being a crap shoot, except for the scrum where they had clear dominance.
In the end, Link was smart enough to get Fainga'a off and bring a decent hooker at the right moment and one one decent scrum in a series of poo was enough. That broke the sequence of clear domination and kept the Reds from losing a player and a penalty try.
For the Reds, I was surprised Link didn't send out word for Harris to take over the kicking from hand duties, Cooper was dire in the second half as the pressure built. Slipper is now clearly the most important player in the Reds team, he and Hanson need to be starting as the comp ramps up, tightens up and gets hard - as it always does.
For the Tahs, too much attacking threat is gone from the side. We have the tight defenders and workers (Burgess, Carter, Turner) but apart from Beale the threat is gone and it is easy for sides to mark up on the one danger.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Canberra is the best during Autumn/Spring... particularly spring... nice days with cool nights...
The winters are bitterly cold, and the summers are stinking hot...
AussieDominance
Trevor Allan (34)
You are incorrect Chief. You are thinking of Rugby League in Rugby Union for a penalty try to be awarded the try would to have 'probably been scored'.
Well your best Tighthead is always your most important player.
Hanson came on as TPN went off so you can't credit Hanson with the improvement in the Reds scrum. Too many variables.
The Tahs don't have attacking players on the sideline waiting to come back either. they are more than one win outside the top 6. I believe their season is on a knife edge.
I saw Harris ask Cooper if he was right to take the kicks (I guess) and Cooper nodded his head. He still wanted it.
Hanson came on as TPN went off so you can't credit Hanson with the improvement in the Reds scrum. Too many variables.
The Tahs don't have attacking players on the sideline waiting to come back either. they are more than one win outside the top 6. I believe their season is on a knife edge.
I saw Harris ask Cooper if he was right to take the kicks (I guess) and Cooper nodded his head. He still wanted it.
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