RWC 2011 SF2: Australia vs. New Zealand

[Hugh Jarse]

I don't know, but Wales keep selecting them for some reason. By my count Gatland is the third in the last decade...

And lets keep encouraging the Taffy's to do so, cause their current playing roster is a bit scary reminiscent of 1970-1974 vintage.

Awesome for Welsh Rugby renaissance and to be encouraged as long as they keep the Soap Dodgers in their place. Not sure what the name is for the trophy between us and the Leek Eaters but its stay in the ARU St Leonards Trophy Cabinet may be limited.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Congratulations ABs.

We were seriously outskilled in both set and open plays. The forwards looked fatigued and struggled to dominate the physical contests in the scrums and rucks and therefore our backs were feeding off scraps all game. Lineouts were good. With Cooper spooked we had no mid field attack at all and I believe we need to sort out the 12 position with someone who can excel at both attack and defense. I thought Giteau's attack could have helped tonight.

To quote 'Dingo': We will learn from this.

 

[sevenpointdropgoal]

Well we were totally outplayed. Congrats to the Blacks; you guys played like you are the best in the world.

We looked frustratingly confused all game, like we have, win or lose, every game since Deans took over.

 

[Richo]

We were smashed. Is there anything else to say? NZ were far superior and deserved their win. Joubert was solid too. It seems to me that no one player is responsible. A poor team effort by Australia is justly rewarded. Might the result have been different? Sure, but that hardly seems the point...

Now I'm just hoping for a cracker next weekend!

 

[bobdog]

AB outplayed the wallabies fair and square. They are the soon to be crowned World Cup champions, and it was long overdue.

But I thought this backline probably wasn't the best Deans could have fielded. I mean I know we're a long way passed that, but I thought every time O'Connor got a touch of the ball he was able to create a little something, off loading the ball with good timing to his support runners. You want that talent in the midfield.
At the end of the day, every one can see his future is in the green and gold 12 jersey. When that will reach to Robbie Deans' brain is another issue. It's frustrating. Get him in there right now to build for the Lions tour in two years. And who else thought Ashely Cooper was a bit off in attack ? He never passed the bloody ball to his outside runners ! In France we call this a "coffre à ballon" (= ball coffer)

Appart from that, the Wallabies as a team know they still have a long way to go before they can master the game as well as the AB. 110% physical intensity, perfect tactical options, flawless technique, always look for work and ways to get involved, support of the ball carrier... The AB are true rugby masters and I don't think anyone can go near them when they play their top game.

Hats off to them

Mate most of that is in the coaching. No one can go near 'anyone when they at play their top game' UNLESS they are READY!
COACHING MATE!
Other things being equal sitting in boxes 100 meters away at PLAY time is not hands- best way coaching for me.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

snip... And who else thought Ashely Cooper was a bit off in attack ? He never passed the bloody ball to his outside runners ! In France we call this a "coffre à ballon" (= ball coffer)

It is rubbish that Two Dads is a coffre à ballon. In Jarseland, we call it a "Ball Hog". I saw him make his annual pass in the Spring Tour vs Italy. He is not due to pass again until the Welsh game. Have patience.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) passing and English Tries are linked across the space time continuum in some sort of warped Dr Who way. When the Soap Dodgers score a five pointer, Two Dads will pass the ball in his next game.

He is very experienced in making his annual pass.

 

[no9]

Well it probably should have been last week. No no7 backup, Centres with no attacking skill, tactically poor against the Irish, scrum deficient, taking injured players to the tournament. Deans has been making poor decisions since they announced the squad and JOC (James O'Connor) went missing.

It hurts to say it but NZ out thought, out played, out classed and out enthused AUS in every facet of the game.

Our scrum is 3rd world standard, we kick the ball away too much and don't find touch when we should. Technically we were poor across the whole team. Instinct said to run but the coaching staff obviously had given orders to kick aimlessly away to the opposition. Deans isn't the only one to blame for this, Williams and Nucifora should be leaving on the same bus.

Faainga is an honest footballer and probably a great bloke but offers nothing as a test 13 and McCabe is as tough as you can get but someone needs to remind our brains trust that you win by outscoring the opposition and picking players who can do more than tackle or run straight helps achieve that (ie Nonu & Smith)

Well done to NSW as you've purchased another player well past his use by date in AUS's non tackling, high body height running no6.

Here's the plan for 2015. Find a front row that can scrum and lift in the lineout (if they get around the field and can pass then thats a bonus not a pre requisite- we can thank Eddie Jones for putting us back 10 years there), 2nd rowers who will push in every scrum, a big nasty no8 who hits like a truck and carries the ball well, a no6 who can tackle, no7 is good for now, get Genia away from Deans, find a no10 who plays for the team and not himself (Cooper will probably be a muslim convert by then and being managed by Mundine as a boxer), move JOC (James O'Connor) to no12 now! find a no13 who isn't injured every 2nd week, a couple of ex AFL wingers who can jump and catch the ball at the same time and Kurtley (lose the mo bro, it even looks silly on the French coach).

Oh, and one last thing. Send O'neill, Deans and his coaching and tactical misfits in the other direction. Not happy John.

 

[Mica]

Thanks to all Wallabies supporters on here, the humility is a lot better many All Black fans if we had lost.
Even though the All Blacks played very well and the Wallabies didn't, I still was nervous as hell coming into the last 20.

Not as nervous as we were! :-\

 

[bobdog]

Teams are as good or not as good as they are allowed to be. That applies to human nature in the wider sense. The ABs were victorious BECAUSE the Wobs were not there. They were there as they were against the irish and the SA. At about the same level. And that wasn't enough. So what does that say about the AB's?
They won today because they outplayed Australia. And Australia were very mediocre today as in the other games mentioned. I reckon they played at about a 5/10 level.
Should the AB's beat France then they are better on that day than France. France don't rate very high at all by any reputable post...about a 6/10.
If that makes the AB's World Champs then thats it.
its championship through weakness not strength.
A Rating of 7/10, boys.
Go on tell me they are 10/10 and why?

 

[François]

It is rubbish that Two Dads is a coffre à ballon. In Jarseland, we call it a "Ball Hog". I saw him make his annual pass in the Spring Tour vs Italy. He is not due to pass again until the Welsh game. Have patience.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) passing and English Tries are linked across the space time continuum in some sort of warped Dr Who way. When the Soap Dodgers score a five pointer, Two Dads will pass the ball in his next game.

He is very experienced in making his annual pass.

Haha ! Nice one

And with McCabe (who averages around 0.5 passes / game), Deans put in fact 2 massive ball hogs at crucial link position (12 & 15). Now that's what I call having vision.

 

[no9]

I disagree....I hope we could always go out and get the best coach in the world. Deans may not have delivered but I don't think it's because he's a Kiwi.

More to do with not being up to this level. Nobody can deride his record at the Crusaders but it just isn't working at test level. Maybe thats why NZ kept Henry after 2007?

 

[Blob]

Teams are as good or not as good as they are allowed to be. That applies to human nature in the wider sense. The ABs were victorious BECAUSE the Wobs were not there. They were there as they were against the irish and the SA. At about the same level. And that wasn't enough. So what does that say about the AB's?
They won today because they outplayed Australia. And Australia were very mediocre today as in the other games mentioned. I reckon they played at about a 5/10 level.
Should the AB's beat France then they are better on that day than France. France don't rate very high at all by any reputable post...about a 6/10.
If that makes the AB's World Champs then thats it.
its championship through weakness not strength.
A Rating of 7/10, boys.
Go on tell me they are 10/10 and why?

They are 10/10. Because they are really good.

 

[bobdog]

Test rugby is about national spirit.
If Australia had a Nigerian rugby coach would he be able to invoke the spirit of nationalism, in the team members, of what it means to be an Australia?
I doubt it. Very much.
So I ask how much a component is nationalism to being a national coach?
Being a successful provincial coach in another country is one thing but then to be the motivational coach of a by-contract adopted country is another thing.
I do think it matters. Subliminally and mate between the eyes it matters!

 

[bobdog]

One try. Whoever counts the kicks is a powder puff. Over the line is the name of the game.
Give'm 7/10.
They did not dominate. Carter may have given weight.
Handy win against a half baked team.
On with the show!

 

[gone]

Have just returned from Eden park and the viaduct. Haven't read through the thread but here are my thoughts.

1) best live game of rugby I have been too. It's very rare you walk away from the ground thinking both teams played well. Tonight, well done the abs and the wallabies.

2) I was sitting with a very passionate abs fan and we both agreed the difference between the 2 teams was the lack of all black errors particularly under the high ball. The all black back 3 was excellent particularly dagg.

3) it was interesting watching the attacking structures of both teams live and it was quite clear the wallabies had a lot mote structure and plans. The abs were just better players

4) cooper was awful for 30 minutes. Hit the droppy and played bloody well for the last 50.

Well done to the abs, deserved winners, good luck next week. I'm right behind you against the frogs.

Our boys, I am proud of the effort tonight, for the young ones remember this feeling in 4 years time.

 

[Bullrush]

One try. Whoever counts the kicks is a powder puff. Over the line is the name of the game.
Give'm 7/10.
They did not dominate. Carter may have given weight.
Handy win against a half baked team.
On with the show!

Bahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......****breath****....hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Test rugby is about national spirit.
If Australia had a Nigerian rugby coach would he be able to invoke the spirit of nationalism, in the team members, of what it means to be an Australia?
I doubt it. Very much.
So I ask how much a component is nationalism to being a national coach?
Being a successful provincial coach in another country is one thing but then to be the motivational coach of a by-contract adopted country is another thing.
I do think it matters. Subliminally and mate between the eyes it matters!

I think that is what I said somewhere else.

Agree. Welsh don't understand the Haka but they can sing. Gatland can't Sing, but he can count to 10 in Maori.

National coaches for national teams.

EDIT. Found it: Post 1290 previous page

Is there something in the passion thing that foreign coaches do not understand, or can not tap into that aspect of the national psyche of the country they may be coaching?

This weekend we have seen, backs to the wall, National teams coached by one of their own triumph over teams coached by foreigners.

We have had an insight to the Welsh Psyche in the last week or so from CardiffBlues presence. HTF can a blow in from the Darkness ever understand the Welsh psyche, no matter how technically proficient they may be at coaching the finer aspects of the game we all love?

Can a Welshman ever understand the Haka? Why then do they expect a Kiwi to take them to the top, drawing on the most basic instincts of being Welsh.

Same for us. It may look good from a beancounter perspective (remind me what is the profession of JO'N) to have a foreign coach running the Men in Gold, but foreigners are just doing a job. There is no gutbusting, life on the line, kill the bastards, national pride from a journeyman no matter how technically proficient they may be.

I see it all the time in business with "blow in" consultants. Guess it is no different on the sports field.

Memo to JO'N. Don't care who it is, or how much it costs, but a fucking AUSSIE must be in charge of the Wobs. Fact.

 

[Hawko]

It's not that the box-kick is inherently bad, when it's executed effectively with good chasers it's a world cup winning tactics (see Boks). It's just that Genia has never ever been good at them.

I will agree that he's not a good box kicker, though he's probably the best in Oz. But there are a number of things wrong with what we did all tournament:

1. We box kicked so often that it was a surprise when we did not. Box kicks are only a good ploy when they are not expected because the positioning to defend a box kick is different from that to defend a kick for territory or a backline running move. Done all the time its too predictable.
2. Genia was so slow at the base of the scrum/ruck that there was no element of surprise anyway.
3. Kick chasing is not part of our backs' basic skillset. (That skillset is now very limited with tonight's team but that is another argument.)
4. It might work for the Boks, who have a very limited rugby gameplan culture (essentially bash and smash), but chasing box kicks is not the Aussie way and we don't play it well.

But if the coach has given you a gameplan which says that you take your time to set up at the back of a ruck/scrum and then you box kick every second time, what can you do? He's the coach, he's said what he wants, you just have to do it. Shits me to tears that potentially the best Wallaby backline for ten years, maybe longer, has been so totally wasted by poor selection and coaching.

Bob Dwyer talks about attack asking questions of a defence. When there is zero urgency about our backs and forwards work you ask piss-poor questions. Just like we did tonight.

 

[Beefcake]

Is there something in the passion thing that foreign coaches do not understand, or can not tap into that aspect of the national psyche of the country they may be coaching?

This weekend we have seen, backs to the wall, National teams coached by one of their own triumph over teams coached by foreigners.

We have had an insight to the Welsh Psyche in the last week or so from CardiffBlues presence. HTF can a blow in from the Darkness ever understand the Welsh psyche, no matter how technically proficient they may be at coaching the finer aspects of the game we all love?

Can a Welshman ever understand the Haka? Why then do they expect a Kiwi to take them to the top, drawing on the most basic instincts of being Welsh.

Same for us. It may look good from a beancounter perspective (remind me what is the profession of JO'N) to have a foreign coach running the Men in Gold, but foreigners are just doing a job. There is no gutbusting, life on the line, kill the bastards, national pride from a journeyman no matter how technically proficient they may be.

I see it all the time in business with "blow in" consultants. Guess it is no different on the sports field.

Memo to JO'N. Don't care who it is, or how much it costs, but a fucking AUSSIE must be in charge of the Wobs. Fact.

Well a certain Guus Hiddink seemed to do well... A mercenary is what describes him best.... but yet his coaching skills, methodology and strategic nous have proven results... especially whats it done in soccer in the aftermath of his tender...

I dont think the nationality of the head coach matters, rather his results... and honestly, a lions share of both praise and criticism should fall squarely on the players that are selected....

Wonder if the players have an issue with the coaches nationality.... wonder if the australian born players have an issue with immigrant australian players?

You tread down this path its get petty on an IRB approved sponsorship level...

 

[crangs81]

It was a pack of 15 against 15 individuals today. Felt sorry for Pocock, he was trying his best but he really didn't have the support through either his team mates not getting there early enough or the AB's pack smashing them off the ball when they did. Quade was a liability once his head dropped, should've been moved out one or benched for Barnes. Genia was harrassed all night which effected Quade as well which in turn gave a less than creative midfield nothing to work with which then left two of the crims most dangerous players on the field with no ball.


AB's Immense from 1 through 15, tackled like demons and if not for a poor performance from the tee for Weepu were probably 25-30 points better