Selection politics and bias, Gold Squads unfairness etc.

[Top Cat]

Thank you Whatever and WoodRat.
Hopefully, I will have nothing controversial to say

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Good evening.

I have 15yld twins that have just been selected into the JGP and I believe it is a fantastic concept. The duration and intensity of the program is certainly going to test the resolve of many a player, especially with only a short break at Christmas.

As for the selection precess, well I'm happy to know that they were being watched in games prior to their selection unlike in some competitions where you have selectors spending just a short period at one game before moving on to another. I video every game that my sons play in and after hours of watching and editing I have a fair idea of both the skills and weaknesses of the players in their age group. The camera doesn't lie and sometimes what you thought you saw during a match turns out to be completely different.

As we progress through the program I will be happy to keep you posted with my thoughts.

Which centre will they train at?


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[Maorifullah]

Some aspects of junior gold still need to be fixed. There were some bias decisions in this years junior gold u15 squad. an example is 3 queensland players missed out on it but someone who didnt even make brisbane city made it? At the moment I reckon politics is still too big in junior rugby and it needs to be fixed young talent is going unnoticed because of this and we could be missing out on some future stars

 

[Wood Rat]

How many JGS centres in Queensland?
Have all the places been filled without the lads being invited to apply
did Queensland use the application process or was there a diferent process
were they competing for positions(oportunities not actual playing position) in the same centres
is there a high retention of squad members at one centre from prevous years (do players attend over several years if given the oportunity)
were the lads that missed out from a rugby "hot spot" i.e. a district with significantly higher numbers of junior players and therefore much more competative for places across several age groups
were the players that got in from an areas the code needs to develop and therefore a few deciples may be beneficial to sell the code
What association does the selection of the gold have with th selection of the Qld team at this age,
was the player available fro the Brisbane city team

 

[uno]

My son has been in these squads for a few years now in a QLD regoinal centre. (sunshine coast). I am not sure if they picked the squads through invitation or application. While I think the make up of the squads seems to be right, I am sure that there are quite a few kids, and especially parents, who feel that they were overlooked. Whatever squad/team you ever pick this is always going to the case.
These programs are excellent for the boys development, however they certainly aren't the be all and end all. They dont guarantee further selection. that been said, they do help!!!
I do feel for some of the boys in the 'hot spots' because of the limitted numbers.

 

[Top Cat]

Which centre will they train at?


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Hi Inside Shoulder, they will be at Newcastle. A hour drive for us.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Thank you Whatever and WoodRat.
Hopefully, I will have nothing controversial to say

Good luck to your fine sons TC !!!
We in the whole Rugby community wish them well at their (they're, there) chosen sport. Be proud of them and let them experience the journey that they are embarking on with much joy!!!
Oh, and keep them away from Lee Grant... He'll have them signed to Warringah in a blink!
OR sending them to Joeys!!!!

 

[CTPE]

How many JGS centres in Queensland?

See here: http://www.rugby.com.au/tryrugby/PathwaytoGold/JuniorGoldProgram/Trainingcentrelocations.aspx

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Some aspects of junior gold still need to be fixed. There were some bias decisions in this years junior gold u15 squad. an example is 3 queensland players missed out on it but someone who didnt even make brisbane city made it? At the moment I reckon politics is still too big in junior rugby and it needs to be fixed young talent is going unnoticed because of this and we could be missing out on some future stars

Making QLD shouldn't be a ticket into the gold squad. A lot of talented boys miss out on the state champs that clearly should have been picked and therefore don't get the opportunity to be considered for QLD selection.

For example BJRU rep selectors watch only 1 game and then PVP game is played for the final team selection. On top of this, some of these selectors will go with the big ball runners and big hitters over the more technically skilled and high work rates. This happens far too often. Not fair either for the big boys that get found out later but maybe reflects on their lack of development/ coaching.

There are at least 4 players that didn't make the inaugural Brisbane City U14 that I expect should make the Junior Gold Squad. As they say the cream rises to the top.

 

[sarcophilus]

Making QLD shouldn't be a ticket into the gold squad. A lot of talented boys miss out on the state champs that clearly should have been picked and therefore don't get the opportunity to be considered for QLD selection.

For example BJRU rep selectors watch only 1 game and then PVP game is played for the final team selection. On top of this, some of these selectors will go with the big ball runners and big hitters over the more technically skilled and high work rates. This happens far too often. Not fair either for the big boys that get found out later but maybe reflects on their lack of development/ coaching.

There are at least 4 players that didn't make the inaugural Brisbane City U14 that I expect should make the Junior Gold Squad. As they say the cream rises to the top.

That's a shame might explain their result and the misguided pre match bragging reported in other threads

Didn't see the games but in these, and the reports seem to be from a lot that were understandably happy with the result, cases I am sure a few of the NSW lads or those that did just miss out would have appreciated an opportunity to differentiate themselves from others in the team ( such big wins don't provide those opportunities ) though there does seem to be patterns of picking 8 loose forwards or 5 looses and a couple of "big ball runners" in stead of grafters or work horse truly tight forwards

 

[Gooner]

My 15 year old is looking forward to commencing the Gold program tomorrow at The Kings school. He is a league player but sees this as a good opportunity to go further in rugby union.

 

[CTPE]

About 200 boys (aged 14-17) in attendance at Kings this morning for the induction of the Sydney based participants in the 2012-13 Junior Gold Squad. Boys will be splitting into their specific training venue groups from next week (at either Kings, Scots or Knox) with 6 more Sunday sessions prior to Christmas and a further 9 sessions recommencing from late January.

 

[gpsoldboy]

About 200 boys (aged 14-17) in attendance at Kings this morning for the induction of the Sydney based participants in the 2012-13 Junior Gold Squad. Boys will be splitting into their specific training venue groups from next week (at either Kings, Scots or Knox) with 6 more Sunday sessions prior to Christmas and a further 9 sessions recommencing from late January.

Were there many likely GPS first XV players there?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Some good things that I hear were said by Ben Whitaker:

• the boys do not have to commit to rugby solely
• there's a holistic approach and they want to get to know the boys and their parents and family
• the boys have to keep up their school work - they dont expect them to be the dux of their school but they need to keep up the academics
• this is not a team process: the boys may miss selection in teams because those teams are looking for a result in the next week or month or whatever whereas the purpose of the program is to develop for the long term.

 

[Gooner]

The program induction was very well presented. It was interesting that the point was made that they are not looking for the most talented kids now, that could win an under 15/16 tournament, but kids that can progress / feed into the system at 22 yrs old.

The emphasis on Sevens rugby was also very interesting. This could be an excellent pathway toll ok at.

My boy is looking forward to going out to Scott's next week.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The program induction was very well presented. It was interesting that the point was made that they are not looking for the most talented kids now, that could win an under 15/16 tournament, but kids that can progress / feed into the system at 22 yrs old.

The emphasis on Sevens rugby was also very interesting. This could be an excellent pathway toll ok at.

My boy is looking forward to going out to Scott's next week.

at the moment and for some time there is a large area of the main Scots oval fenced off - looks like a construction fence.
Depending on how many have been sent to Scots could be a space issue.
Gooner: how old is your boy and is he a back or a forward?

 

[sarcophilus]

Were there many likely GPS first XV players there?

I am guessing but given the public service nature of that characters posts it may not be appropriate for CTPE to reply
whether they are likely or potential you may find those players are more likely to be with the national God squad and not this Junior gold squad or whatever they are called

It seems everyone here is very happy, given the thread is meant to be about selection unfairness it could be that the net cast for this mob has been very wide. I have noticed in previous posts that some have felt a little too wide. This as does many socialist Ideas nobles the top performers and turns a good Idea into a great leveller. Those that are looking to develop their game are slowed by those that cant catch.

is the program about developing players or disciples

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It seems everyone here is very happy, given the thread is meant to be about selection unfairness it could be that the net cast for this mob has been very wide. I have noticed in previous posts that some have felt a little too wide. This as does many socialist Ideas nobles the top performers and turns a good Idea into a great leveller. Those that are looking to develop their game are slowed by those that cant catch.
is the program about developing players or disciples

I assume you don't intend the "cant catch" statement literally.
I don't think it is likely to develop disciples because it doesn't demand exclusivity from the kids: the NRL, Cricket Australia and AFL (and for all I know the FFA) can all get their hands on the same kids and, directly or indirectly, have them "choose" their sport, effectivdely to the exclusion of all others.
Some see this as a weakness with rugby. The simple fact is that it is extremely difficult with a 14 y.o. to predict where they will finish up. So much of the difference between a gifted 14/15 y.o. and a good adult footballer is in the head and heart. This makes prediction in most cases difficult.
To justify the thread title - from what I hear there were a couple of surprising omissions explained by surprising inclusions - apparently based on the achievements of older siblings.

 

[Wood Rat]

I am guessing but given the public service nature of that characters posts it may not be appropriate for CTPE to reply
whether they are likely or potential you may find those players are more likely to be with the national God squad and not this Junior gold squad or whatever they are called

It seems everyone here is very happy, given the thread is meant to be about selection unfairness it could be that the net cast for this mob has been very wide. I have noticed in previous posts that some have felt a little too wide. This as does many socialist Ideas nobles the top performers and turns a good Idea into a great leveller. Those that are looking to develop their game are slowed by those that cant catch.

is the program about developing players or disciples

Just a guess including religion and politics in your post you are not one of the students of this program!? do you have a son here carrying the "Prol" albatross? or a surprising omission?

 

[Jasdec]

The simple fact is that it is extremely difficult with a 14 y.o. to predict where they will finish up. So much of the difference between a gifted 14/15 y.o. and a good adult footballer is in the head and heart. This makes prediction in most cases difficult.

Couldn't agree more. My young bloke (16), was in a country based JGP as an Outside Centre and stuffed his shoulder at one of the sessions. He will also be at the Scots JGP, however this time as a Lock after a substantial growth spurt. Where will he finish up? Who knows, it will probably take another 5-7 years to grow into the body, however I think his days in the backs are now only a memory.
We were also told at Kings that there are over 100 "selectors" Australia wide who contribute to the make up of these squads. Perhaps if/when they are published it will become clearer who has missed out?
The next step up the line is the NGS of 70-90 players and it could be that some of the ommissions are already in that rare air.