GAGR Vote - Should Deans go after the EOYT?

[Tigger]

Sorry about the change of topic but I can't help but think a knighthood coming from this.....arise Sir Robbie for services to NZ Rugby.....am I being too cynical....I did like the appointment initially but the one dimensional style of play from the RWC onwards is just not how Australian sides play.....we are smarter than that!

 

[Jets]

HJ, I was more talking about the apparent drop in skill level from 2010/2011 (and previous years) to now.

Sure there are obvious guys that came to the game late (Higgebum for example) who obviously lack some of the skills compared to others that have played the game through the developing years you mentioned.

This year, most of the Australian super rugby players individual skills just haven't appeared to be that of previous years. These are largely the same guys I am talking about. Balls that were previously caught are now spilled, tackles that were previously made are now missed, passes that were previously in front of the man are now behind their head, and most importantly of all situational awareness that was previously present is now completely non existent (which leads to missed try scoring opportunities, poor defensive structures, no support play when breaks are made, players getting isolated through poor game choices etc).

I don't know what has caused this, but is most evident when comparing the 2011 Tahs & Reds to 2012 Tahs and Reds. The players are largely the same, but they have played completely differently. 2012 skills are just horrible by comparison.

Through 2010 and leading up to 2011 world cup I thought maybe we were moving in the right direction and possibly Deans might be realising his vision and plan (maybe ), but this year??? Something changed and I don't think it is all due to one guy.

Skill sets Thugby League is a bit of a different topic to what I was trying to say, but a very worthy discussion point as well, particularly if the players we have come from that background (I would say that the athleticism and skills shown by most NRL players now is something I have never seen before though) - probably not really relevant to this thread though.

The difference between the Super teams of 2011 and 2012 is that all of the best players had to go through the RWC and had any confidence from the previous season taken away from them. Deans is the man who lead that campaign and the buck has to stop with him.

The thing about basic skills is that they have to be consistently practiced for players to maintain a high standard of them. I would guess that they don't do as much of the basic work at Wallaby training as they used to.

A major reason for the drop in performance of the Reds was due to the loss of Quade and the failure of any of his back ups to play longer than 2 games in a row. With that constant change at 10 it unsettles the team. Also the loss of Tapuai hurt them as he was in great form when he was injured. Look at the Tah's game when Quade was back and they looked a lot like the 2011 version. The following week against a red hot Sharks team they are without Quade again and things go down the drain. The skills are there but they need to be practiced and you need leadership on the fields that has a clear vision of what the team is trying to achieve. You can say a lot about Quade but he definitely has strong views around what he wants his team to do and that is something that the Wallabies require.

 

[The Rant]

Deans is simply a dead man walking and the ARU have made a terrible error in letting him stay so long.
My reasoning for Deans to stay until after the Lions tour is actually pretty simple; if you were the in-coming Wallabies coach, would you really want your baptism of fire to be a potential loss in one of the biggest in-bound tours of your career?

I know what your saying...but the only thing crazier than giving a coach a lions series as a first task...is sailing fullspeed towards this lion shaped iceberg despite the fact that we've spotted it 1 year out and there a rescue boats on standby.

...it's not ideal. And a smart man might hesitate if offered the job.

But the right man would believe he can be successful.

COS WE CAN BEAT THE FKN LIONS.

 

[emuarse]

I don't agree with the concern about a new coach facing the Lions. Surely that is the ultimate challenge for someone who aspires to the number one job in Australian rugby. If someone finds it too intimidating, he's clearly not the right man.

There's a lot of truth in Reason's article. Why don't I like soccer? Because the game seems to be predicated on stopping the other team from scoring, rather than scoring yourself. It appears the Wallabies have taken this approach because they simply don't know how to score, how to break the line, how to beat a man. Personally, I don't see this as principally the problem of the players, as many of these guys are electric at other levels and under different coaches. It comes, in very large part, down to the coach. He appears not tp know what to do about it. Time to go.

Definitely a 'TOXIC ENVIRONMENT' - remember, you heard it first from Emuarse.

 

[emuarse]

On a more serious note, the ARU probably feels it can't do anything about the coach's position until a new CEO is appointed - it's really his job, backed by the board, to whom he makes his recommendations.

 

[kiap]

I know what your saying.but the only thing crazier than giving a coach a lions series as a first task.is sailing fullspeed towards this lion shaped iceberg despite the fact that we've spotted it 1 year out and there a rescue boats on standby.

.it's not ideal. And a smart man might hesitate if offered the job.

But the right man would believe he can be successful.

COS WE CAN BEAT THE FKN LIONS.

Nonsense. Are the Lions better than the All Blacks?

Financially and ceremonially, maybe, but on the field they are not.

 

[Jets]

Heard a rumour that if the Wallabies don't win this weekend Dean will be gone (was a 3rd hand story). Not sure that it has much credibility as it would be crazy to axe him mid tour. I guess Nucifora would be the candidate to step in if it was to happen.

 

[scaraby]

Why are we so negative on next year...its a completely different team. At the moment we are Phipps,KB (Kurtley Beale),Mccabe,Taps,HB, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Harris. Next year Genia,Cooper/Beale,JOC (James O'Connor), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Digby,Mitchell,Beale/Barnes + a host of up and comers...you cannot even remotely compare the two...cheer up

 

[No4918]

Why are we so negative on next year.its a completely different team. At the moment we are Phipps,KB (Kurtley Beale),Mccabe,Taps,HB, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Harris. Next year Genia,Cooper/Beale,JOC (James O'Connor), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Digby,Mitchell,Beale/Barnes + a host of up and comers.you cannot even remotely compare the two.cheer up

Because basic skills are going backwards. Simple things like catch and pass, take a high ball, draw a man, passing in front of players, body height in contact have all gotten worse in the last two years. More front line players will probably mean we win more but it just glosses over these other aspects which were still shit when those you mentioned were in the side.

 

[Braveheart81]

Because basic skills are going backwards. Simple things like catch and pass, take a high ball, draw a man, passing in front of players, body height in contact have all gotten worse in the last two years. More front line players will probably mean we win more but it just glosses over these other aspects which were still shit when those you mentioned were in the side.

I can't help but think the players have to take more responsibility for these issues than any of the coaches.

Basic skills should be a prerequisite.

If our backline can't catch high balls or throw and catch passes at pace then they should be going out and doing extra training in their own time.

The Wallabies will get nowhere if half their training sessions are spent working on basic skills.

 

[No4918]

Players and coaches should take some responsibility. I've read from someone that has seen the Wallabies train, think it was RugbyReg, say that there is no intensity at training when compared to the Reds. That is a coaches problem. Not sure if anyone can confirm the players are not putting in enough hours of there owns time on these simple things. Seems to be hitting the gym is training enough.

 

[It is what it is]

I can't help but think the players have to take more responsibility for these issues than any of the coaches.

Basic skills should be a prerequisite.

If our backline can't catch high balls or throw and catch passes at pace then they should be going out and doing extra training in their own time.

The Wallabies will get nowhere if half their training sessions are spent working on basic skills.

Every great sporting team spends the majority of their time on the basics.
They practice it so well and often that consistent execution under pressure becomes the norm.
The great Crusaders teams of 5-10 years ago used to dedicate whole training sessions to counter attacking. The team would practice realigning in numbers, at pace and go length to length under gut busting fatigue getting it right so that it was natural in game situations.
The great Storm & Bronco teams won because they could execute the basics better then anybody else (OK, the salary cap rort may have helped a bit), but it was still 13 on 13.
The All Blacks absolutely spend massive amounts of time on the basics too.
When you stop and think, a game of rugby is really just a continuum of short spells of basics.
Cooper Cronk is in my opinion the best general play kicker, and one of the best passers, in either rugby code in Australia.
If you get a chance, try and go to a Storm game early for the warm up and just watch him go through his repertoire of kicks and wide range of passes.
He's not a freak, he's just busted his arse at training and in simulated games perfecting his basic skills under pressure and can deliver them consistently.
Not too many of the important skills can be practiced alone, if you want to replicate game situations.

 

[Joe Blow]

David Campese says Australia coach Robbie Deans should be sacked
David Campese, the former Australia wing, has lambasted the Wallabies for their inability to score tries and he has called for head coach Robbie Deans to be sacked.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...tralia-says-david-campese-20121115-29dpo.html

Campo is on board

 

[Braveheart81]

Every great sporting team spends the majority of their time on the basics.
They practice it so well and often that consistent execution under pressure becomes the norm.
The great Crusaders teams of 5-10 years ago used to dedicate whole training sessions to counter attacking. The team would practice realigning in numbers, at pace and go length to length under gut busting fatigue getting it right so that it was natural in game situations.
The great Storm & Bronco teams won because they could execute the basics better then anybody else (OK, the salary cap rort may have helped a bit), but it was still 13 on 13.
The All Blacks absolutely spend massive amounts of time on the basics too.
When you stop and think, a game of rugby is really just a continuum of short spells of basics.
Cooper Cronk is in my opinion the best general play kicker, and one of the best passers, in either rugby code in Australia.
If you get a chance, try and go to a Storm game early for the warm up and just watch him go through his repertoire of kicks and wide range of passes.
He's not a freak, he's just busted his arse at training and in simulated games perfecting his basic skills under pressure and can deliver them consistently.
Not too many of the important skills can be practiced alone, if you want to replicate game situations.

I agree with this, but I think that the players ensure they are at a certain skill level before they arrive for these training sessions.

The All Blacks don't spend half their counter-attack session starting over because the fullback/winger dropped the high ball. That basic skill is practiced beforehand.

When people like Cooper Cronk practice their kicks such that they can kick the ball from 40 metres out and get it to stop in the in-goal, they practice that for hours by themselves (or with someone to kick the ball back). The same goes for grubbers rolling the correct distance and bombs landing just outside the try line.

The kicker has to make sure they can execute the skill correctly before it is worthwhile practicing with the rest of the team. Otherwise it is just a waste of everyone else's time.

These skills all have to be mastered with no pressure before you can practice mastering them under pressure.

I feel like the Wallabies haven't achieved the first step of mastering them without pressure.

 

[Jets]

A few years ago when the AB's where in town they had the afternoon off. Dan Carter spent it at Ballymore practising his kick offs, drop outs and other general play kicks with one of the back rowers, can't recall who, who was practising his kick receptions. Our guys don't seem to do this.

 

[scaraby]

Agree with the above and have said so before.
We seem to play as if when we train it is unopposed.
Anyone can pot a field goal from 25 in front but it is alot harder when Kieran Reid is about to smash you. The major issue is, we dont seem to have time to make decisions and when we get hit in contact we spill the ball. You only get better at that by being involved in real game situations not having a guy run at you with a padded vest etc on.
If you know the guys not going to hit you it doesnt make you contact hard.
My other point was that we are making calls on next year basis less than half a team. The Wallabies will be a Much better side next year whoever coaches them..and they will be hungry. The coaches will be screaming for the job...buy at the bottom lads.

 

[Richo]

A few years ago when the AB's where in town they had the afternoon off. Dan Carter spent it at Ballymore practising his kick offs, drop outs and other general play kicks with one of the back rowers, can't recall who, who was practising his kick receptions. Our guys don't seem to do this.

I remember hearing about the Johns brothers using their afternoons in Newcastle when they were growing up to kick bombs into garbage cans from all over the local park. If you watch sports documentaries, they invariably include lines like "he had keys to the local gym and would be there at 6am every morning, just shooting baskets."

I think it's pretty obvious that players need to be working on their skills in their own time. It's equally obvious that coaches need to work and develop those skills at high intensity during training. To my mind, the word about poor energy at training are some of the most damning reports to come out of the Deans era.

 

[It is what it is]

I remember hearing about the Johns brothers using their afternoons in Newcastle when they were growing up to kick bombs into garbage cans from all over the local park. If you watch sports documentaries, they invariably include lines like "he had keys to the local gym and would be there at 6am every morning, just shooting baskets."

I think it's pretty obvious that players need to be working on their skills in their own time. It's equally obvious that coaches need to work and develop those skills at high intensity during training. To my mind, the word about poor energy at training are some of the most damning reports to come out of the Deans era.

Absolutely agree about the poor energy at Wallabies training.
They wander around like drugged sheep and spend far too much time resting between drills.
Whatever happened to short and sharp with intensity?

 

[jimmydubs]

yes

 

[jimmydubs]

yes

oh i'm sorry i though it said straight yes/no vote.... no comments.... in that case - blah blah blah.