I love your passion and I'm not trying to wind you up here but there is another side to the coin. There is a huge question mark over the number of matches players are capable of playing in a year. and maybe another tour to NZ after the world cup was too much. But I don't think that it's factually correct to suggest that Ireland are suffering more than anyone else. Maybe the Southern Hemisphere teams are "pissing themselves" but with all the travel they do and matches they play, I doubt they have time. Since July 2011 Ireland has played 19 International matches and will have completed 22 by the end of 6N. In the same period, Australia will have played in 28. For Australia, the Lions tour comes in the middle of S15 and after S15 they are into the Rugby Championship - another 7 internationals and a wee bit of travel.
I am assuming that the Irish players and indeed, all of the players from the home nations are prepared to bash shit out of each other to get into the Lions is because they value it? Maybe they are even passionate about it? I was making the assumption they also go to the same lengths to get into the Irish team and that they would give their best, whether they played for the Lions or for their country. Just an assumption. I can't recall anyone turning the opportunity to play for the Lions down because they didn't believe in it. And given it's their choice, who are we to deny them.
"I hate playing in England, I hate England, I hate the bloody English and if you take that personally, then you should" Keith Wood. And thats part of the magic of the Lions. The fact that you bring all these players together that are at each other during the 6N, that even hate each other, that have all these preconceived ideas about each other and they get over all of that, form a team and play test rugby. I bet Woody is pretty thankful for the opportunity he had to play for the Lions and the friendships he made and the experience he gained as a player. Thats not BS.
As I don't know the coaching staff personally I can't comment on their character. I've never met any of them. But I would have thought it extraordinary if they had no concern for the welfare of their players. Such an approach would undermine any coach with ambition.
I can understand that it would be hard to support any team that has England players in it cos they are all arrogant. Every last one of them.and Philips too. Gee, even I get annoyed by Ashton and all his carry-on sometimes. Though, I did note that he made the effort to go over and shake Zebo's hand and wish him well as he left the field the other day. I wonder, maybe that's just a preconceived idea about him and all the English players that is wrong?? No, Ashton is definitely a twat.
I didn't suggest it was 'factually correct' that Ireland suffer more than any other nation in relation to games played per year, I was responding to your contrasting of a Lions tour to Ireland's tour of NZ. I was not happy about Ireland playing NZ at the end of two years without a break but so be it that is what the IRB wanted and we just had to wear it.
As for the SH schedule, when in the cycle do SH international players play for two seasons without a break? NZ played their last game last year on the first of December and the Super season has not started yet and that is the same every year. World cup or Lions year, the SH teams get a proper summer break, in a world cup year the NH players forego a summer break and come straight back to playing Henieken cup rugby without a break. If you want anecdotal evidence of what playing playing without a break can do to a player look no further than the career of Rocky Elsom!!!
A lions tour falls all over the summer break for the NH players and involves ten matches as opposed to three, seven of those games are against teams that have little interest outside of attempting to maim as many Lions as they can.
As for the suggestion that Irish players are willing to bash shit out of each other to get on the Irish team and that being comparable to the Lions? Irish rugby is centralised and run by the IRFU (we don't have sugar daddies who regard rugby clubs as penis extensions, although in the case of Nigel Wray it has to be wondered if it is possible to extend something that doesn't exist), The IRFU have control over when centrally contracted players can and cannot play and they manage to organise all the best Irish players to play against each other over the season in league matches with cameras and citing commsioners, which makes for very good trials. Every Lion goes on about the intensity of the competition for Lions places and that all happens on alien hard surfaces thousands of miles away from the medical/ conditioning experts who know the players strengths and weakness best and behind closed doors without players being concerned that a camera might pick up any foul play.
No one denies that all the players want to play for the Lions although maybe the remuneration might be part of the attraction (like playing for the Barbarians, something which current Irish players are precluded from doing thank fuck). Although I remember Lord Bald and the cnut Campbell spinning against D'Arcy in 2005 that he didn't want to play which was complete bollix he wasn't fit. Maybe you believe the results of elections that show unanimity, in my experience they normally involve people being unwilling or unable to raise their hands and say no. I have heard of plenty of stories of players hating lions tours but they never make it into the press funnily enough.
Anyway, as my only concern is Irish players let me suggest that as Irish rugby is, essentially, owned by the fans via supporters clubs, ticket sales, merchandise etc the fans have some right to a say in when and where Irish players play regardless of the players desires. I started a poll on munsterfans asking whether Irish players should be on the next Lions tour to which 30% replied no; obviously a minority but a significant one and yet I have never once read an article in the press questioning the exercise, could that be because the journos do not fancy foregoing the all expenses paid trip?
As for the coaches being concerned for the players welfare, was it not the coach who authorized the cutting open of a players lip? Gatland is a complete and utter tool, although his comments about English players over the last few days have been a first class demonstration of his complete gob shitery, is he starting his campaign to undermine the 2017 lions tour to NZ, who he hopes to be coaching by then, already???. Edwards amply demonstrated his attitude to the Irish when he attacked the welsh physio who was Irish and had the temerity to suggest that Edwards choice of song after a game against Ireland might be racist (guess who lost his job?). Rowntree was the genius who started Vickery and Mears in the last Lions series. And Farrell should not be anywhere near coaching a Lions team in which his son might be involved. I would say it might be beneficial if the shamelessly nepotistic Farrell picked his son for the starting xv on the tour but the scarring around ROG's eye demonstrates that the dangerous job for an OH on a Lions tour to Australia is in the pointless mid week team. Yes we remember you Duncan McRae.
And now onto the 'arrogant' english bit. If you look at the players I cited (sorry freudian slip), there was no mention of Cole, Robshaw, Parling, Launchbury or indeed cry baby Youngs, although after his disgraceful carry on in Llanelli last year he might have warranted being bracketed with that charm school. I very carefully selected the players I could not countenance supporting, although Phillips might not be that bad. Hartley, Tulagi, Ashton, Wood, and Lawes (two of them aren't english anyway so that scuppers the usual English chip on the shoulder about everyone calling them arrogant) are serial thugs.
Specifically on Ashton, we are talking about someone who has such 'respect' for the game that he continues to do something that is a complete anathema to any understanding of how a game is meant to be played and won; the prick even acknowledges that his late father would tell him to stop his dive and yet he continues to do it except now he only does it in one sided games to rub the losing teams nose in it. I saw him shake Zebo's hand on sunday as well; given his form I would question whether or not he had some snide little comment to add but even if he didn't, forgive me if I question whether his motives were anything other than entirely cynical: could it be that someone has told him that he needs to stop being such a cnut if he wants to make a lions tour?
Anyway, even if the team were not coached by or did not contain such charming individuals, I would not be in favour of Irish players being on the tour. Irish rugby has carefully set itself up to try and maximize its very limited resources, it is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but, I believe, it suits Irish rugby, owned as it is by the fans. The Lions is a step too far for our resources in the modern pro era. Irish rugby cannot afford, literally, to lose players of the calibre of Paul O'Connell, Brian O' Driscoll, Stephen Ferris, Rob Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald etc to injuries sustained playing for province or country so I am absolutely certain they can ill afford for such players to suffer career shortening injuries playing for the Lions.
That the players want to play is largely irrelevant IMHO, if the IRFU were to say you can play for the Lions but you will need to cover your risk were you to suffer injury, I don't think there would be quite such enthusiasm. And before you retort that the Lions picks up the tab for injury, are they still paying for Ferris and POC's injuries picked up in service of the Lions in 2009?
So there you go, no sweeping judgments on 'English' players; it just happens that those five out of the players likely to make a Lions tour plus Phillips are not players I would ever support. If Delon Armitage or the bandy legged assassin Liam Williams or (God help us) Calum Clark were to be in the squad they would be added to the list.
