Michael Cheika

[USARugger]

Sarcasm is the lowest for of wit.

Sarcasm requires wit?

Back on topic. Cheika has revolutionized the 'Tahs attack. They lead or are in the top2-3 of the table for many attacking stats including but not limited to quick rucks, meters gained, carries, and tries scored.

The ranging forwards attacking pattern is fucking phenomenal. I'm actually very, very familiar with this system as it is the same one my university side uses these days. We are just about the only team in our region who attempts to play what anyone would call a 'Southern Hemisphere' style.

One big weakness in the system is that if the ruck is attacked (legally or illegally) the entire thing can fall apart very quickly. The system essentially trades ruck security for quicker ball and more players in the attacking line. To me this means that one referee deciding to play a little 'loose' with the breakdown could absolutely annihilate the 'Tahs. I know this isn't a failure of the system but I definitely see it as a weakness. Refereeing performances in Super Rugby, namely the first half of the season, were less than encouraging in this regard.

One thing I've noticed as well is that teams seem to have issues adjusting their defensive pattern to meet up with the fact that the 'Tahs essentially attack in two different ways coming off of a set piece. They run some pretty ambitious first-phase movements and then transition to their pattern and have scored quite a few tries this way. Seems that you don't even need a spectacular play-maker because the system itself puts the defense in two minds off of every offensive set piece.

What you do need though is a scrumhalf who doesn't need to meerkat to know where he is sending the ball. If the scrumhalf slows down the entire system collapses and the 'Tahs get stuck behind the gain line. I've already said this on these boards before but anyone who cares and has the time needs to watch the Kings game again. The difference in the intensity of the 'Tahs attack after Lucas came on was concerning.

 

[JSRF10]

Back on Cheika, he took a Leinster side with a piss weak underbelly and turned them into a defensively solid, hard nosed team that were hard to beat. He couldn't take Leinster to the next level which was the all singing all dancing free flowing team which Joe Schmidt turned them into. His main flaws at Leinster not giving less established players a shot in big games, his conservative game plan and he didn't manage his squad that well.

This season we've seen him improve on points one and two. We saw Tilise thrown in against the Reds, backing Foley as 10 amongst other things. No need to elaborate on the game plan. Squad management isn't something that is totally necessary in the Super 15, but we have seen some rotation. I think the Wallabies could be a good fit in a few years for him, not sure how the ARU could handle his no nonsense approach though.

 

[Pfitzy]

I am no expert with regards to managing people, or structuring a game plan, however I do see Deans has a weakness with People management, and his game plan.

BTW oops this is a Cheika thread not a DEans problem thread.

Yeah well I didn't start it...

Rugby coaching is a lonely job, especially when you're losing. What we forget is that Deans has, at times, been forced to work with people he didn't necessarily appoint without pressure from his employer.

What we also know is that we are still consistently beating everyone except the All Blacks. Given the difference in cattle, I'm hardly surprised.

I have no personal experience of the management skills of Rod Macqueen, Robbie Deans, or Michael Cheika (see? on topic! ). What I have is knowledge that management involves making hard decisions, and change is especially hard for some people. Look at rugby coaching at the top level - if you make a representative side, suddenly you've got another coach whose philosophies may not agree entirely with your club coach. New expectations are set, and you must meet that.

What I also know is that all those coaches have had success in various areas, therefore what they've got must work some how. They interviewed with the mucketty-mucks and got the job; maybe because there was no-one better, but the point stands. Its nothing to do with Deans being a Kiwi - after all Cheika coached in Ireland with success and foreign players. What helps is when you have a team capable of executing the plan you want. Everyone must buy in.

Cheika (OT!) has started this process with the Tahs. I had to question some things at the start. We looked like a bag of shit. But look at them now - two weeks in a row, two wars of attrition, two wins. This is a team that is balls-out, backing their mates, and as Jean de Villiers said: "Playing for something bigger than just rugby".

We haven't seen that with the Wallabies, and won't necessarily until everyone is pulling together. People are criticising Deans for his comments on Brisvegas radio yesterday - they're the same people who criticised him for talking in circles and not giving his opinion straight out. Be careful what you wish for as you might just get it.

Context is important too. Perhaps Deans is not making the point that Quade is bringing people down. Instead, maybe he's saying Quade and Ben Tapuai could both benefit from adjusting their approach slightly. Good players improve those around them, because they're a TEAM.

 

[Rob42]

/

One big weakness in the system is that if the ruck is attacked (legally or illegally) the entire thing can fall apart very quickly. The system essentially trades ruck security for quicker ball and more players in the attacking line. To me this means that one referee deciding to play a little 'loose' with the breakdown could absolutely annihilate the 'Tahs. I know this isn't a failure of the system but I definitely see it as a weakness. Refereeing performances in Super Rugby, namely the first half of the season, were less than encouraging in this regard.

/

The two Brumbies games this season highlight the Tahs progress in this regard - they were bullied off the ball in the first game and made to look very ordinary. At that stage they were much too light on the breakdown. Last week, they held their own in the first half, and made the changes required in the second half to unlock the defensive pattern. That's real progress, and always impressive when a team can tweak the game plan so effectively at half-time. It says good things for the coach.

 

[USARugger]

The two Brumbies games this season highlight the Tahs progress in this regard - they were bullied off the ball in the first game and made to look very ordinary. At that stage they were much too light on the breakdown. Last week, they held their own in the first half, and made the changes required in the second half to unlock the defensive pattern. That's real progress, and always impressive when a team can tweak the game plan so effectively at half-time. It says good things for the coach.

Yep! The forwards have markedly improved in their cleanout efficiency and speed in support. My only real worry comes if there's refereeing going on like the RedvBru game, it would hurt them especially badly.

 

[Jets]

The thing that both Cheika and Link have in common is that when they have made mistakes in the past they have learnt from them. If you are the coach you have to think about why you do things a certain way. Cheika has a clear understanding of what he wants from the team and is clear to the squad about what is expected. This is an area where other coaches fail.

I'm really excited about the Tah's progression in coming years. I guess I shouldn't write off this season as I think they can win 3 of their last 4 games and might sneak into the finals at the expense of another Aussie team.

 

[Train Without a Station]

What we also know is that we are still consistently beating everyone except the All Blacks.

And Scotland (Grand Slam Tour Loss and 2012 Loss)

And Ireland (Grand Slam Tour Draw & RWC 2011 Loss)

And Samoa - Yeah that was a one off I guess though. I am drawing a bit of a long bow to say we don't consistently beat them... Just couldn't let us off.

 

[Pfitzy]

And were those failure of coach or failure of execution? I don't even count the Newcastle test BTW. A fucking abortion of a game, given the conditions

 

[qwerty51]

Blame the ARU for Scotland not Deans. 3 day turnaround for a Test match.

 

[Gnostic]

You ever tried to work with fluffybunnys who aren't on the same page? Especially when you've been put in charge of getting the results, and your job is on the line if you don't?

Let me tell you that Rod didn't put up with fwits either, but he had massive success - due mainly to assembling the RIGHT people and being professional about rugby before anyone else was. Oh and the fact he had several all-time greats in his side, as well as a host of World XV players.

As with the Quade thing, what about we all shut the fuck up about things if which we know little, and concentrate in supporting the team, hmm?

A good leader knows what they can do and what they can't and actually delegates to specialists tasks that they are best suited to execute, and then leaves them to execute that task, with oversight, but not overt interference, most especially not where those of non-management level can observe and realise that the chief has no trust in his subordinates to execute said task. Assembling the right subordinates is also the responsibility of the Leader tasked with executing a task. The fact that there has been no stability in the assistant ranks under Deans has been an area of huge concern for me and others and should speak volumes about this aspect of management.

As for Quade, there are plenty of people here who know plenty about what has happened and what is happening. Just read the posts, blogs and listen to the Podcasts and you will see that much isn't just idle gossip and speculation.

 

[USARugger]

Gnostic

To build on what you just said..

Any leader who does not realize the value of a dissenting opinion amongst his advisers is not a good leader.

 

[Pfitzy]

The fact that there has been no stability in the assistant ranks under Deans has been an area of huge concern for me and others and should speak volumes about this aspect of management.

Are you aware just how much the ARU has interfered with the appointment of assistants? Or the influence David Nucifora was trying to generate behind the scenes? There are far more factors at play here than just quoting from Management text books would have you believe. I don't know all of it, but realise that no one else does either, and that what we need right now is a bit of sanity and support for the team.

As for Quade, there are plenty of people here who know plenty about what has happened and what is happening. Just read the posts, blogs and listen to the Podcasts and you will see that much isn't just idle gossip and speculation.

And how to filter the truth? The blogs and posts are mostly idle speculation. Go and listen to the interview where Deans supposedly "blames" Cooper for the slump in Tapuai's form, and you'll realise most of the comment from QC (Quade Cooper) supporters since is misguided, and shows they are hearing what they want to hear, or got the interview second hand.

Similarly, some of the GAGR analysis articles can hardly be taken as gospel - they are the opinion of a person who, like it or not, has the support for their team at the back of their mind. I'm not going to quote examples because that will set off another round of frothing.

 

[USARugger]

Are you aware just how much the ARU has interfered with the appointment of assistants? Or the influence David Nucifora was trying to generate behind the scenes? There are far more factors at play here than just quoting from Management text books would have you believe.

So you want to support this claim or are you going to dance around it?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And Samoa - Yeah that was a one off I guess though. I am drawing a bit of a long bow to say we don't consistently beat them. Just couldn't let us off.

Games like that show our true mettle: they show how our underlying structures/approach, attitude works.
Would the AB's lose a game like that?

 

[JSRF10]

the NZRU wouldn't put their national team in that position in the first place, but in the hypothetical scenario of a fired up Samoa at home I'd back BNZ to beat them comfortably

 

[Rob42]

Cheika! The thread title says MICHAEL CHEIKA! I don't want to keep clicking on this thread to read more whinging about Deans - there are other threads for that.

 

[Rob42]

One of the things I've really liked about the Tahs this year has been the play of their established Wallabies like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell, Robinson, who have perhaps been cruising in blue for a couple of years, saving their better performances for the Wallabies. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) commented early in the year that he had come back to pre-season training a week earlier than he had to, because he was nervous about keeping his spot - Cheika has clearly had them focussed from the start.

 

[Pfitzy]

OK. Last OT post for me on this thread:

So you want to support this claim or are you going to dance around it?

No, I won't. I won't lie and say these are any more than rumours that have come to my attention through rugby circles, the press, and various hints and shadows that lurk in the political scene that is rugby in Australia.

But are you going to keep dancing around your claims - and those of others - as well? Beware of people who say "I know this for a fact!" Because unless they are Robbie Deans or Quade Coper, they have probably spent a fair bit of time convincing themselves that supposition and truth is the same thing.

What I have is this evidence:

Robbie Deans said there is nothing personal.

Quade Cooper has never stated publicly that there IS anything personal.

That's enough for me. I've got a team to support.

 

[USARugger]

Pfitzy

What are you on about? Your claim was that the ARU and Nucifora directly interfered with the assistant coach selections for the Wallabies..in case you've forgotten: "Are you aware just how much the ARU has interfered with the appointment of assistants? Or the influence David Nucifora was trying to generate behind the scenes? There are far more factors at play here than just quoting from Management text books would have you believe"

How did you get to Quade Cooper from that?

 

[gel]

Cheika! The thread title says MICHAEL CHEIKA! I don't want to keep clicking on this thread to read more whinging about Deans - there are other threads for that.

Agreed.

Michael is a pretty effective coach and I have been very pleased to see his results so far (albeit for the wrong team).

He is much better than Deans.

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