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QLD GPS Rugby 2013

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Digby

Ward Prentice (10)
I can only assume, Churchie, with it's great history of GPS rugby, has a good rugby program, as well as a strong scholarship program.
Also, I'd be very careful about accusing Phillpotts and Barker from BBC of not honoring the GPS agreement on scholarships (I'm assuming that's what you are referring to) or for relying on imports: they are doing a total makeover of the rugby program @ BBC from Yr 5 to Yr 12 and, what what I can see, are keeping well withing the spirit and letter of the GPS scholarship policies. BBC are retaining a high degree of integrity- as demonstrated by their suspensions - even expulsions of some of the biggest names in GPS rugby- at a huge cost to their rugby program.
Correct. CIC rugby at BBC had its most successful year in history this year withPhillpotts ( the only Aussie schoolboy coach to win 3 in a row against NZ schools) overseeing the program and putting one of his most experienced coaches in charge of grade 7
 

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Agree with these results except a possible upset of the round could be BSHS over Churchie. I understand Captain of Rugby Macmillan out for the season. Anyone confirm this

He's on crutches. No idea the extent or nature of the injury but I'd suggest he won't be playing against BSHS. Quite a big blow to their premiership aspirations if it is in fact the season, he is their best player and in his 3rd year of 1st XV.

That being said, they should still have enough fire power to overcome BSHS. Jaidon Schafer, Mack Mason and Will Bailey are a class above their opposite numbers.
 

Knockers

Ward Prentice (10)
He's on crutches. No idea the extent or nature of the injury but I'd suggest he won't be playing against BSHS. Quite a big blow to their premiership aspirations if it is in fact the season, he is their best player and in his 3rd year of 1st XV.

That being said, they should still have enough fire power to overcome BSHS. Jaidon Schafer, Mack Mason and Will Bailey are a class above their opposite numbers.
I thought Jaidon Schafer was out for the season with a knee injury? You are also forgetting Izaia Perese (outside centre) who is a great player and played QLD U16s last year as a 15 year old, as well as Harley Fox who i suspect is playing number 8. Both of those players will outshine their opposite numbers.
 

Vegas

Chris McKivat (8)
Have to disagree with you on this Vegas. Playing in year levels at this point would lead to a very big imbalance in ages across the schools if played at Year level. At the moment, most schools have a calendar year intake for their students. However, there are a couple of schools who either have as policy or encourage students to defer starting school a year. TSS has been aligned to the NSW system with a later age intake and which is also the upcoming QLD system which was changed a couple of years ago. In QLD, the first cohort with this change hits the schools for year 8 in 2015 and do Senior in 2019 I believe.

In this year at the QLD GPS rowing (which is Year level based) TSS fielded a Year 10 Firsts crew where they had all turned 16 by the beginning of March. Most of the other schools had either 14 or just turned 15 year olds in their Year 10 crews. That's the rules for rowing and no problems with that. But if Rugby was based on Year level, one or two schools would have an advantage because of their differing intake polices. The disparity would be too great and dangerous through the younger levels and no doubt the "two year" window policy by the ARU may be compromised.

I say, the safest thing is to keep the age based levels with a "power" / contact sport such as rugby. Some kids and parents just have to realise that sometimes you cannot play with your mates and to go out and make new mates.

Dark Shark - i understand what you are trying to say here, and dont necessarily disagree, but i dont think your line on age groups will solve the issue of what is approaching - you get the same disparity of weight and development across age groups as you do across class cohorts. The only real solution to your proposition is to revert back to the old weight based divisions - which dont work from a player maturity perspective. My point was that when the current group whose year cutoff is 30 june ( who i think are in Grade 5 or 6 now ) come through into GPS, the kids will be on a similar age basis as NSW, and , as you say , what Southport are doing already. Is the age group split maintained at 1 jan, or is it changed to 30 jun ? Do you have a class year cut-off , with a similar couple of months leeway as they do now ? As I said - mad woman's breakfast !
Remember - this is schoolboy rugby - having kids spend the week together at school, in the playground and class with their mates, disecting the game the week before, and steeling themselves for the upcoming game, will surely produce a more enjoyable experience than playing with kids in a higher grade they only see at training or at the game.
There are significant changes moving through the system with the changing class age cohort, and the move from CIC to GPS of the younger age groups - the timing is opportune to re-aligning the participation at this level now to start year / class based competition. Its been done before, and guess what - it worked !
I have seen participation rates decrease simply because lower grade kids dont want to play up with kids from a higher grade - some may say that doesnt matter and it wont affect the talented kids or the "As" - maybe not, but remember this is schoolboy rugby that should be for fun - who gives a rats arse who wins if the kids have enjoyed the experience ( yes, yes - winning can be a big part of that experience ) - and some of the best players for our country over the years have emerged from lower grades at school. Participation needs to be a key KPI, and maybe if we get this right, there wont need to be such a focus on the current nonsense of "gap filling" ( read importing , or spending heaps of money on cattle that dont give a rats about the farm they feed off !) .
If nothing is done, and the current age based system maintained, there will be even more disparity when these kids start rolling through the system.
I have spoken to a number of GPS sportsmasters on this, and they support the proposition wholeheartedly - over to the heads to make a decision - and while they are at it, please get Rugby back to Term 2 !
 

Vegas

Chris McKivat (8)
Correct. CIC rugby at BBC had its most successful year in history this year withPhillpotts ( the only Aussie schoolboy coach to win 3 in a row against NZ schools) overseeing the program and putting one of his most experienced coaches in charge of grade 7

Completely agree and confirmed - and guess what - the kids enjoyed their rugby by virtue of the attention , coaching and culture that was developed - the improved results were a consequence of that.

Philpots has a "5-P" philosophy with the Rugby programme - the first of these is participation, and the last Passion - get these right , from Grade 4 all the way through, and the results will come, and maybe one day this ridiculous practice of bringing kids into a school who dont give a rats about being there, or getting an education, or being part of a school community, may cease.

Across the board, schools would get a far better return on investment from investing in coaching a nurturing players over 5 years, than punting on fly by nighters who are only there for a year or 2 without any real engagement with the fabric of what schools like these are about.
 

Dark Shark

Alex Ross (28)
Dark Shark - i understand what you are trying to say here, and dont necessarily disagree, but i dont think your line on age groups will solve the issue of what is approaching - you get the same disparity of weight and development across age groups as you do across class cohorts. The only real solution to your proposition is to revert back to the old weight based divisions - which dont work from a player maturity perspective. My point was that when the current group whose year cutoff is 30 june ( who i think are in Grade 5 or 6 now ) come through into GPS, the kids will be on a similar age basis as NSW, and , as you say , what Southport are doing already. Is the age group split maintained at 1 jan, or is it changed to 30 jun ? Do you have a class year cut-off , with a similar couple of months leeway as they do now ? As I said - mad woman's breakfast !
Remember - this is schoolboy rugby - having kids spend the week together at school, in the playground and class with their mates, disecting the game the week before, and steeling themselves for the upcoming game, will surely produce a more enjoyable experience than playing with kids in a higher grade they only see at training or at the game.
There are significant changes moving through the system with the changing class age cohort, and the move from CIC to GPS of the younger age groups - the timing is opportune to re-aligning the participation at this level now to start year / class based competition. Its been done before, and guess what - it worked !
I have seen participation rates decrease simply because lower grade kids dont want to play up with kids from a higher grade - some may say that doesnt matter and it wont affect the talented kids or the "As" - maybe not, but remember this is schoolboy rugby that should be for fun - who gives a rats arse who wins if the kids have enjoyed the experience ( yes, yes - winning can be a big part of that experience ) - and some of the best players for our country over the years have emerged from lower grades at school. Participation needs to be a key KPI, and maybe if we get this right, there wont need to be such a focus on the current nonsense of "gap filling" ( read importing , or spending heaps of money on cattle that dont give a rats about the farm they feed off !) .
If nothing is done, and the current age based system maintained, there will be even more disparity when these kids start rolling through the system.
I have spoken to a number of GPS sportsmasters on this, and they support the proposition wholeheartedly - over to the heads to make a decision - and while they are at it, please get Rugby back to Term 2 !

Yes, agreeing with you on all of the above Vegas. It is probably the timing of the introduction that I was concerned about. Definitely support it when the first cohort under the new system commences (and for it to apply to that year level and all that follow it) so there is no disparity between the schools.

At the moment the Age cut off, being 1 Nov in the prior year of the year group seems to ensure that only a very small handful of boys are required to play outside their cohort. There has been talk that the QLD GPS were going to go to calendar year which will have a significant effect on numbers of boys moving up into an older year group.

You are spot on with regards to participation. It can only be for the good of the sport in the long term. But I feel this is more about the attitude of each school between performance versus participation rather than any other factor. Unfortunately, this change towards participation will not be driven by age eligibility changes. It needs something more than that.

Perhaps the QLD GPS introduce a new Cup for Rugby much like the rowing's Old Boys Cup which rewards participation and performance for every year group at the Head of the River and to quite a "depth" of participation (eg Yr 10 sixth quads).

While I think Nudgee may have a Cup of this sort sewn up for the next couple of years, it may change the way many schools view their participation numbers.
 

Refabit

Darby Loudon (17)
Not sure of the success of the first "P" for participation at BBC.
My understanding is that in recent years there have been more soccer players than rugby players playing there.
Or maybe the Soccer Co-ordinator has just been more successful in his 1st "P".
Lack of Participation has not prevented IGS from being consistently strong at rugby, although I do hold grave concerns for them going forward.
 

GSP

Fred Wood (13)
Completely agree and confirmed - and guess what - the kids enjoyed their rugby by virtue of the attention , coaching and culture that was developed - the improved results were a consequence of that.

Philpots has a "5-P" philosophy with the Rugby programme - the first of these is participation, and the last Passion - get these right , from Grade 4 all the way through, and the results will come, and maybe one day this ridiculous practice of bringing kids into a school who dont give a rats about being there, or getting an education, or being part of a school community, may cease.

Across the board, schools would get a far better return on investment from investing in coaching a nurturing players over 5 years, than punting on fly by nighters who are only there for a year or 2 without any real engagement with the fabric of what schools like these are about.

Also, I'd be very careful about accusing Phillpotts and Barker from BBC of not honoring the GPS agreement on scholarships (I'm assuming that's what you are referring to) or for relying on imports: they are doing a total makeover of the rugby program @ BBC from Yr 5 to Yr 12 and, what what I can see, are keeping well withing the spirit and letter of the GPS scholarship policies. BBC are retaining a high degree of integrity- as demonstrated by their suspensions - even expulsions of some of the biggest names in GPS rugby- at a huge cost to their rugby program


Coreect.Phillpotts has FIFO approach.Just ask Junior/Lolo (who would have been 1stxv captain ) Bowen and Mclean -who played 2nds last week and again this Saturday -even though he was in 1sts last year and on contract with Storm.
 

Vegas

Chris McKivat (8)
Not sure of the success of the first "P" for participation at BBC.
My understanding is that in recent years there have been more soccer players than rugby players playing there.
Or maybe the Soccer Co-ordinator has just been more successful in his 1st "P".
Lack of Participation has not prevented IGS from being consistently strong at rugby, although I do hold grave concerns for them going forward.

Rabbit -It is half way through year 1 of the programme - as was said, get this right over time and it will make a big difference.
 

Vegas

Chris McKivat (8)
Also, I'd be very careful about accusing Phillpotts and Barker from BBC of not honoring the GPS agreement on scholarships (I'm assuming that's what you are referring to) or for relying on imports: they are doing a total makeover of the rugby program @ BBC from Yr 5 to Yr 12 and, what what I can see, are keeping well withing the spirit and letter of the GPS scholarship policies. BBC are retaining a high degree of integrity- as demonstrated by their suspensions - even expulsions of some of the biggest names in GPS rugby- at a huge cost to their rugby program


Coreect.Phillpotts has FIFO approach.Just ask Junior/Lolo (who would have been 1stxv captain ) Bowen and Mclean -who played 2nds last week and again this Saturday -even though he was in 1sts last year and on contract with Storm.

GSP - maybe read my post again - my reference to "being part of a school community" was a generalization across all GPS schools, not aimed at BBC.

I am promoting what is being done at BBC as a great example and opportunity, not making any accusations as you suggest - apologies if it is misread. My message was exactly what you said - get it right at the grassroots and throughout the whole school, and maybe one day this whole scholarship nonsense could be a thing of the past .
 

Vegas

Chris McKivat (8)
Yes, agreeing with you on all of the above Vegas. It is probably the timing of the introduction that I was concerned about. Definitely support it when the first cohort under the new system commences (and for it to apply to that year level and all that follow it) so there is no disparity between the schools.

At the moment the Age cut off, being 1 Nov in the prior year of the year group seems to ensure that only a very small handful of boys are required to play outside their cohort. There has been talk that the QLD GPS were going to go to calendar year which will have a significant effect on numbers of boys moving up into an older year group.

You are spot on with regards to participation. It can only be for the good of the sport in the long term. But I feel this is more about the attitude of each school between performance versus participation rather than any other factor. Unfortunately, this change towards participation will not be driven by age eligibility changes. It needs something more than that.

Perhaps the QLD GPS introduce a new Cup for Rugby much like the rowing's Old Boys Cup which rewards participation and performance for every year group at the Head of the River and to quite a "depth" of participation (eg Yr 10 sixth quads).

While I think Nudgee may have a Cup of this sort sewn up for the next couple of years, it may change the way many schools view their participation numbers.

Dark Shark - you had me at "yes" !!
Old Boys Cup is a great idea, even if it does a couple of years - the whole transition out of this dark scholarship nonsense will take quite a while - it needs some collective direction, and big kohunas, from the heads and administrators.
 

The Guru

Fred Wood (13)
GSP - maybe read my post again - my reference to "being part of a school community" was a generalization across all GPS schools, not aimed at BBC.

I am promoting what is being done at BBC as a great example and opportunity, not making any accusations as you suggest - apologies if it is misread. My message was exactly what you said - get it right at the grassroots and throughout the whole school, and maybe one day this whole scholarship nonsense could be a thing of the past .

Vegas-well said.good points.
 

The Guru

Fred Wood (13)
Rabbit -It is half way through year 1 of the programme - as was said, get this right over time and it will make a big difference.

Not sure of the success of the first "P" for participation at BBC.
My understanding is that in recent years there have been more soccer players than rugby players playing there.
Or maybe the Soccer Co-ordinator has just been more successful in his 1st "P".
Lack of Participation has not prevented IGS from being consistently strong at rugby, although I do hold grave concerns for them going forward.


Rabbit-yes IGS has had a deal of sucess but only in A teams and 1sts.For the last 3 odd years there 2nds and B teams have been ordinary..But I see that this year they can only field 13 teams this year and no 16B team.

Perhaps your post should read":
" Lack of Participation( and a lot of help from the Freeman Athletic program and rugby scholarships) has not prevented IGS A teams from being consistently strong at rugby"

That said-I have to admit I really enjoy watching IGS 1st XV teams play-they run it from anywhere.!!The hooker(Aussie Schoolboy) and the fullback from 2011 team were magic to watch. Good luck to them-long may they continue to do what they do to get exciting players in..
 

TheKing

Colin Windon (37)
Mclean -who played 2nds last week and again this Saturday -even though he was in 1sts last year and on contract with Storm.


I watched the seconds game closely on the weekend and didn't notice McLean at all, if anything he was upstaged by (I believe) Macauly Robinson, who scored a real nice try after burning a Grammar substitute winger one-on-one on the goal line, and might have scored another try in traffic on the far side. Couldn't quite see due to distance.
After hearing on the forum about BBC's new students with professional committments etc, I expected a big game from their Second XV, and was surprised at the 12-all draw. BGS defended out of their skins for the majority of the shortened game, with possession and penalties going against them. Depth is looking good at Grammar this year, and not quite as good as expected from BBC.

I was also really disappointed watching Josh Bowen (15) play for the first time. Obviously a seriously athletic player, but it seemed to me he struggled to inject himself in to the game at times. Played really quiet. Maybe it's because he was recovering from the Schoolboy Championship? but catching up on the forum from the last few weeks it seems this has been a recurring trend. For all the touted superstar potential, I've not been convinced.

Ipswich Grammar played a dominant trial on Saturday, missing from what I've been told the majority of their better players like Landon Hayes (13) and Carlin Anderson (1). Premiership Darkhorse? possibly...

Moving on to GT, I was at the physio this afternoon and bumped in to Kris Larosa (12) on my way out. What's the news with his injury? and if he's out for the TSS game, who will be replacing him?

Also some news from Grammar today, Patrick Morrey (7) has officially been confirmed as Captain of Rugby, with Fergus Halliday (9) named as vice. Congratulations to these two very capable young players, best of luck for hopefully what will be a big year for Grammar Rugby.
 

Mitchell

Stan Wickham (3)
I don't see how everyone is counting bshs out of the comp? Im not saying they can win the thing but I dont think they'll finish last. I think many of us are thinking that one woeful year (2012) can ruin a long and proud tradition of State high rugby.
 

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Rabbit-yes IGS has had a deal of sucess but only in A teams and 1sts.For the last 3 odd years there 2nds and B teams have been ordinary..But I see that this year they can only field 13 teams this year and no 16B team.

Perhaps your post should read":
" Lack of Participation( and a lot of help from the Freeman Athletic program and rugby scholarships) has not prevented IGS A teams from being consistently strong at rugby"

That said-I have to admit I really enjoy watching IGS 1st XV teams play-they run it from anywhere.!!The hooker(Aussie Schoolboy) and the fullback from 2011 team were magic to watch. Good luck to them-long may they continue to do what they do to get exciting players in..

I disagree entirely.

Participation is essential for depth and competition, so too is popularity of the sport. IGS have a school culture that heavily focuses on other sports (mainly track & field but also crossy and 'football') and this definitely affects the rugby program. Talent is not the question here.

Success breeds participation and once the sport starts attracting players from AFL, T&F and the 11-man game (which it should now that they are in different semesters), we will see what IGS really have to offer - scary thought.

An interesting case study would be into why Union hasn't picked up numbers at IGS in comparison to its opponents. Perhaps it is league influence in the region or just other interests amongst old boys and executives.

13 teams is poor.
 

SeaEagles

Allen Oxlade (6)
I disagree entirely.

Participation is essential for depth and competition, so too is popularity of the sport. IGS have a school culture that heavily focuses on other sports (mainly track & field but also crossy and 'football') and this definitely affects the rugby program. Talent is not the question here.

Success breeds participation and once the sport starts attracting players from AFL, T&F and the 11-man game (which it should now that they are in different semesters), we will see what IGS really have to offer - scary thought.

An interesting case study would be into why Union hasn't picked up numbers at IGS in comparison to its opponents. Perhaps it is league influence in the region or just other interests amongst old boys and executives.

13 teams is poor.

I'm pretty sure enrollments at IGS have been down over the last few years. That will be the main reason for age groups bottoming out at the B's.

State High and IGS not fielding C and D grade is sad and the GPS should really look at this and see what can be done to assist these schools.

BGS have shown that this can be turned around in recent years, as they now have very strong playing numbers in all age groups.

Onto Rugby this weekend - Any other team lists for Saturday?
 

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I'm pretty sure enrollments at IGS have been down over the last few years. That will be the main reason for age groups bottoming out at the B's.

Maybe. If what you say is right, that's roughly 30-40 students playing rugby in certain age groups.

A quick look on SportingPulse shows:
- 2012 IGS football had 'D' teams in years 8, 10 and 12, with 'C' teams in the remaining year levels.
- 2013 Cricket had a 'D' team in year 9 with 'C' teams in opens, 10's and 8's.
- 2012 Basketball had 'C' teams in every year level

here's the link: http://www.gpsqld.org.au/


These squads might be smaller but they still illustrate that rugby is not a dominant sport at the school. Enrolment is not really a valid excuse either IMO.


Agree regarding BGS, the turn around in 3 years has been remarkable. Whether they can consolidate and capitalise on that success is another question. As I have said, I believe IGS could be a potentially great rugby school, the talent that graces their running tracks would not be wasted on any rugby field.
 

SamoanNo8

Fred Wood (13)
The round of the match for this weekend will certainly be the 2012 Premiership Final rematch between NC and BGS. Despite NC being considered favourites to top the ladder this season, and for BGS tipped to fill in the 5, 4 and 3 positions, I certainly wouldn't write BGS off for a possible victory this weekend. Watching their trial matches and few training sessions, I can confidently say that The Light Dark Blue won't go down without a fight this weekend. With the likes of Tom Sly and Lachi Lanskey, the 2 imports this year, their size (lanskey) and speed (lanskey and sly) will trouble the Nudgee defence at times. Rumour has it that Lakehm Aiono will be returning to the centres for this weekend to provide some size to the backline. IMO, I actually find this years team to have more talent at the start of the season than last years team did at the start (strange, i know).

BGS Ladder Prediction: 3

Players to look out for:

5. Dalton Cox
7. Paddy Morrey
12. Lakehm Aiono
13. Lachi Lanskey
14. Tom Sly
15. Matt Marsden
 
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