U/15 SJRU, NSW, Schools

[Freddo Frog]

Kids enjoy sport when they are with their mates. I'd leave your son to enjoy his rugby where he is. If rep is a possibility later on then let him lead the way

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Two of Southern Districts 12's switched to Lindfield to enable them to play for Gordon.

Well they are neighbouring clubs

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^Not only are they clearly geographically close, on the scale that says Alice Springs is far from Sydney, but there is the well known anecdotal stereotype of the Hobbits propensity to travel far and wide from the Shire across not only Tarren Point and Tom Ugly's bridges, but the Harbour Bridge/Tunnel as well.

 

[Rugby Addict]

Kids leave a Village club and/or a District club because they are not satisfied where they are for a variety of reasons. Happy kids do not leave. They leave for better coaching, better rugby standard of teammates and better organisation. Basically they leave for a better rugby program.

Some people are prepared to travel a long way for that better experience and that is their prerogative. Gordon is quite often their district club of choice because they see how well it is run and how successful they have been. Gordon do not approach these kids but generally they do not turn them away if approached.

On another note Harrison Goddard made the U16’s NSW schools team despite missing the Sydney 15's team.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Gordon do not approach these kids but generally they do not turn them away if approached.

Do they turn fat, slow, uncoordinated kids who can not scrumage away, or are these sorts of boys the ones that are turned away when approaches are made from out of district?
I would have thought that the recruitment (and approaching) was done at the village club level with the District in this case Gordon reaping the benefits of the efforts of their affiliated village clubs programmes.

Basically they leave for a better rugby program.

I disagree.
Basically kids leave clubs to be with their mates.
Kids who leave for better rugby progammes are typically induced to leave.

 

[Shane Smeltz]

Thanks all for your advice about my son, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

He is happy with his club, his friends and especially his coach. At least his is a true village club, with actual locals in the team, and not kids coming from way across town.... Trophy hunters indeed.
But that is a whole other thread.

As HJ said, cream always rises to the top. If it is meant to be it will be.

 

[Brainstrust]

Thanks all for your advice about my son, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

He is happy with his club, his friends and especially his coach. At least his is a true village club, with actual locals in the team, and not kids coming from way across town.. Trophy hunters indeed.
But that is a whole other thread.

As HJ said, cream always rises to the top. If it is meant to be it will be.

Unfortunately there are plenty of cases where the cream gets curdled because of incompetent coaching and no development program. I would hate to think how much potential gets wasted because boys play in weak divisions or in poorly coached teams and then start bleating because they arent selected out of the blue for a sydney or state rep side. Boys seeking improved rugby environments shouldnt be penalised. Clubs inducing players to move should be...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Unfortunately there are plenty of cases where the cream gets curdled because of incompetent coaching and no development program. I would hate to think how much potential gets wasted because boys play in weak divisions or in poorly coached teams and then start bleating because they arent selected out of the blue for a sydney or state rep side. Boys seeking improved rugby environments shouldnt be penalised. Clubs inducing players to move should be.

I reckon a lot more cream gets curdled because of unrealistic parental expectations and unrealistic expectations by the children themselves than gets ruined by incompetent or misguided coaching.
You scratch a child prodigy who never made it, in my experience, and there'll usually be a reason entirely outside rugby: the kid who doesn't like a coach, for whatever reason, and who quits as a result is going to have to face working with or for people he doesn't like in the real world. The kid who quits because of non-selection is going to find out soon enough that you win some and you lose some. If you cant deal with adversity in rugby then (a) you're not going to amount to much in rugby, and (b) you'll need to deal with it in life, so you amy as well get used to it.
Shit happens - its how you deal with it that tells the tale.
Unless a coach persuades someone to do too many weights or to do them too early there's really not a lot to stuff up.
We have coaches at club, super 15 and international level who not everyone agrees with, who some (including me) say are hopeless, who have no idea, who can't recognise talent and who couldn't coach a choko vine over a shithouse.
But at all these levels we get by. We get by with the players who were once badly coached at 15, 16 and 17, apparently.
Surely these comps are more demanding than the U15's at any level: these are week in week out examinations of the fabric of one's opponents - a far cry from reps/zones/sjru/state.
Adam Ashely-Cooper did not start playing rugby until he was 15. Even then he played all over the back line. He went to a school that was hardly a rugby nursery. If he had any coaching the law of averages tells you it was likely to have been, well, average.
Yet, in many ways, he is the embodiment of all anyone could hope to have as a rugby player: he doesn't goof off and he generally gets the job done. He plays for his team. Sure people accuse him of not passing but he's played many more tests than those who level that charge.
This thread is about kids.
The reality is that if they want it badly enough its highly unlikely that any bad coaching now or non-selection will be the thing that stops them from getting wherever it is they want to get in rugby. And the point is its where the kids want to get not where the father thinks he should have gone or wishes he had got.
There's plenty of time to undo even the worst coaching.

 

[Rugby Mum]

I reckon a lot more cream gets curdled because of unrealistic parental expectations and unrealistic expectations by the children themselves than gets ruined by incompetent or misguided coaching.
You scratch a child prodigy who never made it, in my experience, and there'll usually be a reason entirely outside rugby: the kid who doesn't like a coach, for whatever reason, and who quits as a result is going to have to face working with or for people he doesn't like in the real world. The kid who quits because of non-selection is going to find out soon enough that you win some and you lose some. If you cant deal with adversity in rugby then (a) you're not going to amount to much in rugby, and (b) you'll need to deal with it in life, so you amy as well get used to it.
Shit happens - its how you deal with it that tells the tale.
Unless a coach persuades someone to do too many weights or to do them too early there's really not a lot to stuff up.
We have coaches at club, super 15 and international level who not everyone agrees with, who some (including me) say are hopeless, who have no idea, who can't recognise talent and who couldn't coach a choko vine over a shithouse.
But at all these levels we get by. We get by with the players who were once badly coached at 15, 16 and 17, apparently.
Surely these comps are more demanding than the U15's at any level: these are week in week out examinations of the fabric of one's opponents - a far cry from reps/zones/sjru/state.
Adam Ashely-Cooper did not start playing rugby until he was 15. Even then he played all over the back line. He went to a school that was hardly a rugby nursery. If he had any coaching the law of averages tells you it was likely to have been, well, average.
Yet, in many ways, he is the embodiment of all anyone could hope to have as a rugby player: he doesn't goof off and he generally gets the job done. He plays for his team. Sure people accuse him of not passing but he's played many more tests than those who level that charge.
This thread is about kids.
The reality is that if they want it badly enough its highly unlikely that any bad coaching now or non-selection will be the thing that stops them from getting wherever it is they want to get in rugby. And the point is its where the kids want to get not where the father thinks he should have gone or wishes he had got.
There's plenty of time to undo even the worst coaching.

Well stated. Its how you deal with the failures in life that makes you a success. Teach kids to deal with failure in a positive way rather than looking for someone to blame!

 

[Brainstrust]

I reckon a lot more cream gets curdled because of unrealistic parental expectations and unrealistic expectations by the children themselves than gets ruined by incompetent or misguided coaching.
You scratch a child prodigy who never made it, in my experience, and there'll usually be a reason entirely outside rugby: the kid who doesn't like a coach, for whatever reason, and who quits as a result is going to have to face working with or for people he doesn't like in the real world. The kid who quits because of non-selection is going to find out soon enough that you win some and you lose some. If you cant deal with adversity in rugby then (a) you're not going to amount to much in rugby, and (b) you'll need to deal with it in life, so you amy as well get used to it.
Shit happens - its how you deal with it that tells the tale.
Unless a coach persuades someone to do too many weights or to do them too early there's really not a lot to stuff up.
We have coaches at club, super 15 and international level who not everyone agrees with, who some (including me) say are hopeless, who have no idea, who can't recognise talent and who couldn't coach a choko vine over a shithouse.
But at all these levels we get by. We get by with the players who were once badly coached at 15, 16 and 17, apparently.
Surely these comps are more demanding than the U15's at any level: these are week in week out examinations of the fabric of one's opponents - a far cry from reps/zones/sjru/state.
Adam Ashely-Cooper did not start playing rugby until he was 15. Even then he played all over the back line. He went to a school that was hardly a rugby nursery. If he had any coaching the law of averages tells you it was likely to have been, well, average.
Yet, in many ways, he is the embodiment of all anyone could hope to have as a rugby player: he doesn't goof off and he generally gets the job done. He plays for his team. Sure people accuse him of not passing but he's played many more tests than those who level that charge.
This thread is about kids.
The reality is that if they want it badly enough its highly unlikely that any bad coaching now or non-selection will be the thing that stops them from getting wherever it is they want to get in rugby. And the point is its where the kids want to get not where the father thinks he should have gone or wishes he had got.
There's plenty of time to undo even the worst coaching.

I get where you're coming from, but I couldn't disagree with you more. I accept that there are parents who don't get it, and think johnny is a superstar, and he isn't, but the belief that coaching doesn't matter could not be further from the truth. I have seen first hand the development of sprinters, rugby players etc in the hands of coaches who really know what they're doing and the results are incredible. To make a point, if your son or daughter are gifted in the class room say in maths, and their opportunity is to go to an extended level, to be taught by the best maths teacher and be in a class with other gifted students, you're telling me you would not seek that opportunity because Johnny wants to stay in the B class with his mates and he will get a great HSC mark regardless? I think not. This is not to say that some parents and kids don't get it, but don't be fooled by the constant dribble on these forums that the parents are bad, the super clubs / teams are bad, the administrators are all fools, and selection is all biased and the schools are ripping the game off. There are elements of this to some extent for sure, but it is not in the main. The last time I checked we live in a free country where you can make choices you see in your best interests. If your club, or whatever aren't delivering what you expect you have the right to change that. If the boy isn't good enough, that's when they eventually get found out. But to repeat, if you think putting an athlete in a more constructive learning environment is a waste of time, that would explain some poor skill, lack of depth and performance issues at the highest level of our game. Thanks for highlighting the problem for us.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

the belief that coaching doesn't matter could not be further from the truth.

I did not say that.
My premise was that the idea that bad coaching can do irreparable harm is overblown.
You dont need a team of superstars to practice the fundamentals. Close weekly competition does more to hone skills than aggregating the good players in one team.
At most levels of the game all that ever matters are the fundamentals.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

As well as cream rising to the surface, and some cream getting curdled on the way to the top, there are also some turds full of hot air that float around on the surface.

After a while these latter objects start to stink and it becomes abundantly obvious that they do not belong on the surface. At this point the selectorial poo scoopers come and remove them. It can take some time for this to occur, and the cream near the floating objects can become somewhat tainted.

 

[lineoutjumper]

Sydney 15's VS Japanese 16's Side on Sunday at 10 at Trinity School, for those interested

 

[lineoutjumper]

saw the Sydney 15's absolutely punish the Japanese 16 XV presidents team this morning out at Trinty, i think after all the "bias" talk, the slections were all correct after I matched names to faces, standouts for me were:

2. Jack Ognosia
4. Lachlan Rose
5. Jake Hedge
17. Matt Orphen
8. Bradley Ammuntani
22. Charlie Smith
10. Jack Mann
12. Luke Lough
11. Simone " "

 

[Inside Shoulder]

saw the Sydney 15's absolutely punish the Japanese 16 XV presidents team this morning out at Trinty, i think after all the "bias" talk, the slections were all correct after I matched names to faces, standouts for me were:

2. Jack Ognosia
4. Lachlan Rose
5. Jake Hedge
17. Matt Orphen
8. Bradley Ammuntani
22. Charlie Smith
10. Jack Mann
12. Luke Lough
11. Simone " "

hmmmmmmmmm - a little difficult to overcome the bias cries by watching a performance in which the opponents are "absolutely punished".

 

[10to12]

saw the Sydney 15's absolutely punish the Japanese 16 XV presidents team this morning out at Trinty, i think after all the "bias" talk, the slections were all correct after I matched names to faces, standouts for me were:

2. Jack Ognosia
4. Lachlan Rose
5. Jake Hedge
17. Matt Orphen
8. Bradley Ammuntani
22. Charlie Smith
10. Jack Mann
12. Luke Lough
11. Simone "
Interesting your view on the game. Having watched this fixture for a few years now I would have to disagree. In previous years the Sydney team has dominated the touring team in all facets of play and through structure has put on a big score score. You just had to watch the 16s to see how its done. . Half the points in the 15s came from mistakes from the japanese boys who apart from one big forwrd ran sidewise all day and were not willing to go to the advantage line. It will be hard to see them go well against country who will be much tougher if what I have heard is correct. The coaches will have to work very hard to get some structure into the team

 

[sarcophilus]

This will be a great opportunity for this coach to show how inspired his management team is.
There are some fairly polarised views on these blokes,

 

[Gary Owen III]

saw the Sydney 15's absolutely punish the Japanese 16 XV presidents team this morning out at Trinty, i think after all the "bias" talk, the slections were all correct after I matched names to faces, standouts for me were:

2. Jack Ognosia
4. Lachlan Rose
5. Jake Hedge
17. Matt Orphen
8. Bradley Ammuntani
22. Charlie Smith
10. Jack Mann
12. Luke Lough
11. Simone " "

Agree the boys played well and i think the tries were spread all over the team - Not sure about your names matching numbers though, Charlie Smith was wearing #23

 

[Rugby Addict]

I don't think anyone will be surprised that Sydney 15's absolutely punished the Japanese side - and they will do the same to Country who were beaten 49-0 by Gordon in a trial earlier this year.

The question still remains why Semi finalists Norths have 9 players selected and 4 time State champions Gordon have 3 players and why did Harrison Goddard miss out.

Some people are of the belief that the appointment of Gordon Irons (Norths U16 coach this year and ex Mosman President) to be a selector for Sydney 15's and having the Norths U15 coach to also coach the Barbarians side which had 8 players selected from it was very influential - make up your own mind.

Most of the best players are in the Sydney side - just not all the best players.

 

[The Spectator]

I don't think anyone will be surprised that Sydney 15's absolutely punished the Japanese side - and they will do the same to Country who were beaten 49-0 by Gordon in a trial earlier this year.

The question still remains why Semi finalists Norths have 9 players selected and 4 time State champions Gordon have 3 players and why did Harrison Goddard miss out.

Some people are of the belief that the appointment of Gordon Irons (Norths U16 coach this year and ex Mosman President) to be a selector for Sydney 15's and having the Norths U15 coach to also coach the Barbarians side which had 8 players selected from it was very influential - make up your own mind.

Most of the best players are in the Sydney side - just not all the best players.

Harrison Goddard has taken the place of a 16yr old in NSW Schools Under 16s, assuming its the same one. Now that does suck.

The team is selected so no real point whingeing. It will be corrected next year when you have two teams - City and NSW Schools in 16s. Everyone is then a winner.