The Haka

[southsider]

Yep a haka, is more about a respect thing, it's not intimadation, or just a challenge, as shown in one of the videos it was done to show respect and oneness with a "house' from a college when one of their's died. Do I personally like it ? yep but I a kiwi, and it means a bit to me, but I wouldn't lose sleep if it wasn't done in Aus.
The last thing we probably need is another Haka-f***en kiwi thread, note it never about Samoan or Tongan one . Basically noone has to stand there and watch it,Southsider, thats a lot of crap, I not sure where anyone gets that idea from, but hey it looks good when you having a moan!! And look if it hurts anyone just write to ARU and ask them to have it stopped as it upsets your sensibilities, it is only done outside NZ at home nations request. Zander I don't know who told you that they have to be able to do it. And you could also add, hakas being done before test matches has been done longer than National Anthems and if you checked rules there is probably not one to say you have to even stand still for one of them!!
Actually to add to that originally the Haka was only ever done away from home.

my ass its not an intimidation thing, if some maori fella came up to you in the street and made a throat slitting action at you would you feel the same? From my limited understanding the haka means different things at different times like the whole college thing was for respect, before a game is a challenge and after a game if they do the haka to the team again im led to believe THAT is a show of respect (once played a nz team and they explained it to us having done their haka after the game aswell)

if just staring them down after it was disrespectful id hate to think what doing anything else would mean to the all blacks

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/maa-nonu-warns-wales-respect-429635


If we played samoa or tonga more than once in a blue moon we would probably mention them too, don't get all defensive, people say the all blacks because they are the main ones who do it

 

[Braveheart81]

because it isn't a anthem....

as majorly said its a challenge, I find it rude that someone makes a throat cutting action at me yet its still part of the AB's haka

I don't like the throat slitting gesture either. I believe the AB's are not meant to use that haka anymore. It is however a traditional part of some versions of this traditional dance and I don't think it should be taken that seriously. It is just a dance move.

I don't think the fact that the haka isn't an anthem doesn't mean you should treat it with any less respect. There's nothing wrong with standing there silently and waiting for it to finish.

 

[cyclopath]

I think it's great. Everyone should have a moment to do a dance, appropriate to their culture.
Argentina can do a tango.
South Africa can do Rassie's Shaka.
Japan a nice Kabuki.
England the Sprinkler.
France the Can-Can.
Ireland some Lord of the Dance.
Scotland some Brigadoon jigging.
And Australia something uniquely Aussie - Nutbush City Limits!

Note - this post might not be serious.
Just face it, accept it, then get on with smashing them in the game.

 

[southsider]

I don't like the throat slitting gesture either. I believe the AB's are not meant to use that haka anymore. It is however a traditional part of some versions of this traditional dance and I don't think it should be taken that seriously. It is just a dance move.

I don't think the fact that the haka isn't an anthem doesn't mean you should treat it with any less respect. There's nothing wrong with standing there silently and waiting for it to finish.

really? I haven't read anything about that and a quick google search didn't show anything either

theres also nothing wrong with doing whatever the hell I want though according to some kiwis on here (although kiwis in general seem about as divided on the issue as the rest of us are) I don't see why I should sit there silently and be "respectful" while some other mob make throat cutting gestures at me, stick their tounges out jump up and down and generally challenge me to "war" and we are supposed to just stand there and take it?

 

[Dam0]

Do whatever you like, just so long as the teams don't come together and start a brawl before kickoff, I reckon anything goes. Of course it is intimidating, and I expect that is at least part of the point to it. I would not lose any sleep if I never saw it again, but I understand it is what people want to see and so it goes on.

I also think there is a lot of nonsense written about the haka, and more importantly the reactions to it. I don't think it makes the slightest bit of difference to the result at the end of the day how you respond to it, whether you carry on doing a warmup or sing or face down the challenge silently or shouting obscenities. Folklore has arisen out of unique responses to the haka, but they IMO are just a case of confirmation bias. When a team does something disrespectful and get beaten badly (ala 1st Bled in 1996) it is remembered, but when they do something equally disrespectful and dominate the game and lose narrowly (ala 2nd Bled in 1996) nobody remembers.

Last thing. I would point out that it is pretty rare in recent times that the All Blacks start well in tests. You almost never see them come firing out of the blocks and dominating in the early stages of test matches, but they do tend to do better at the back end of games than the opposition. Thinking back to all 6 of our RC games last year, I think we scored first points in only 1 of them - the game where we kept the Wallabies to nil (and even that game started with a convincing period of play from the Wallabies). I don't reckon the Haka gives the All Blacks much of a boost at at all.

 

[Braveheart81]

really? I haven't read anything about that and a quick google search didn't show anything either

theres also nothing wrong with doing whatever the hell I want though according to some kiwis on here (although kiwis in general seem about as divided on the issue as the rest of us are) I don't see why I should sit there silently and be "respectful" while some other mob make throat cutting gestures at me, stick their tounges out jump up and down and generally challenge me to "war" and we are supposed to just stand there and take it?

Sorry, I was wrong. There was talk of getting rid of the final move of Kapa O Pango in 2005/06 soon after they debuted it and that remained the case for a couple of years and then they seemed to revert to the throatcutting gesture.

It's a traditional dance that is synonymous with rugby. I really don't think there is that much of a reason to get worked up about it. Yes, opposing teams just stand there and watch because that is the respectful thing to do.

Just like when the anthems are being sung or there is a minute of silence for one team's loss, the other team respects that. I don't see any reason why that should change.

I really think the only benefit the All Blacks get out of the haka is if the opposition starts overthinking it and working out ways to 'combat' it.

If the opposition just takes it as their final opportunity to stand together as a team and focus on the game that is about to start and what they need to do whilst the other team performs their traditional dance, I really can't see it as being a disadvantage.

 

[Bullrush]

I've said this here before but as a kiwi, I think opposition teams should do whatever they need to do to play the best game of rugby they can.

If that means ignoring the haka, 'respecting' the haka, doing their own haka - that's what they should do.

This is rugby - who cares what you did during the haka if you win?

The All Blacks are allowed to do the Kapa O Pango haka (throat-slitting gesture) but when it was first done, that gesture was pretty frowned on. The AB's response was that it wasn't a throat-slit action but one of drawing breath or air into the body. For a while afterwards they made the gesture further down the body and more across the chest but I have noticed that it has been back up around the throat lately.

Is it supposed to intimidate?! Hell yeah!! The haka was often performed before tribes went to war and part of it's role was to strike fear into the opposition. You're kidding yourself if you don't believe that many of the ABs have that same mind-set when they do the haka. It's also a pretty good way to get yourself hyped-up and into game-mode.

I'm Samoan-NZ with English and Scottish blood and I love performing the haka. I know it's fairly primitive and macho but if you ever get the opportunity to learn it and perform it, I'd recommend it. An idiotic feeling of being superman is probably healthy to have once in a while.

 

[Elfster]

I think it's great. Everyone should have a moment to do a dance, appropriate to their culture.
Argentina can do a tango.
South Africa can do Rassie's Shaka.
Japan a nice Kabuki.
England the Sprinkler.
France the Can-Can.
Ireland some Lord of the Dance.
Scotland some Brigadoon jigging.
And Australia something uniquely Aussie - Nutbush City Limits!

Note - this post might not be serious.
Just face it, accept it, then get on with smashing them in the game.

Nutbush City Limits???

What about the Rock Lobster?

 

[Scoey]

I like the haka. It's part of the theatre. I think it is important to be respectful to the challenge and the tradition. I don't think that the only way to do this is to stand there quietly but I don't really care if that's what teams choose to do.

I wish that Australia had more respect and understanding of our indigenous culture. I wish we embraced it like New Zealand do with the Maori culture.

And lastly, Bullrush I would love to be a Kiwi for a day, so that I could learn and do the haka with a big group. I reckon that would be awesome! "An idiotic feeling of being superman" would definitely be healthy every now and then! As an Aussie though, I wouldn't feel right doing it. I don't think I would have the right to do it. That may be a weird way to think though.

 

[BPC]

Appoint Sam Scott-Young as haka response coach

 

[Scrubber2050]

Reckon an Aborigine "emu" dance would intimidate the shit out of those warriors from the east.

Shit our mob must have scared the shit out of the maori otherwise they ALL would have left NZ 200 years ago, conquered Australia and now there would be 20 million of them

 

[scaraby]

I think it's great. Everyone should have a moment to do a dance, appropriate to their culture.
Argentina can do a tango.
South Africa can do Rassie's Shaka.
Japan a nice Kabuki.
England the Sprinkler.
France the Can-Can.
Ireland some Lord of the Dance.
Scotland some Brigadoon jigging.
And Australia something uniquely Aussie - Nutbush City Limits!

Note - this post might not be serious.
Just face it, accept it, then get on with smashing them in the game.

bring on Tina...hahahahaha...tooo funneeee

 

[scaraby]

just play the picnic from hanging rock music.....and then turn the lights off....reckon that would scare the s..t out of any team...and most of the crowd...

 

[scaraby]

at sorry not from

 

[Rassie]

Personally I love the Haka. Those who don't like it go watch it live. Its totally a different experience than watching it on tv.

Cyclopath the IRB sent this to all the Unions wee back in 2007

Following complaints to the IRB about the All Blacks being allowed to motivate themselves by performing the 'Hakka' before their games, other nations were asked to suggest pre-match rituals of their own. The IRB Rugby World Cup 2007 organizing committee has now agreed to the following pre-match displays.

1. The England team will chat about the weather, wave hankies in the air and attach bells to their ankles, before moaning about how they invented the game and gave it to the world, but no-one appreciates them.

2. The Scotland team will chant "You looking' at me, Jimmy?" before each of them smash a bottle of beer over their opponents' heads.

3. The Ireland team will split into two, with the Southern half perfoming a Riverdance, while the Northerners march the traditional route from their dressing room to the pitch via their opponents' dressing room.

4. Unfortunately the committee was unable to sanction the Welsh proposal to form a choir and sing Tom Jones' "The Green Green Grass of Home".

5. Argentina will unexpectedly invade a small part of opposition territory, claim it as their own "Las In-Goal-Areas", and have to be forcibly removed by the match stewards.

6. Two members of the South African team will claim to be more important than the other 13, whom they will imprison between the posts. These two will then go about selecting the best parts of the pitch to settle on and claim they have been there for centuries.

7. The Americans will not attend until almost full time. In future years they will amend the records to show that they were, in fact, the most important team in the tournament, and Hollywood will produce a blockbuster film called "Saving Flanker Ryan".

8. Five of the Canadian team will sing "Le Marseillaise" and hold the rest of the team to ransom.

9. The Italian team will arrive in Armani gear, sexually harass the female officials, and then prepare pasta dishes, which they will then flog to the crowd for a fortune.

10. The Japanese will shock fans by demonstrating how to capture a whale for scientific research by harpooning an opposition prop.

11. The French won't have a pre-match display and will simply hide in fear in the dressing room for the whole match.

12. The Australians will have a barbecue on their side of the field and invite the opposition over before the game. The food and alcohol will be in abundance and, by the start of the game, no-one will remember what they came to the stadium for. After some streaking, the singing of dirty songs and the occasional chunder, everyone will go home thoroughly convinced it was a bloody good night.

13. The Moroccan team will quietly pray during the first half and then launch suicide attacks against the opposition after the break. Unfortunately, this strategy works well for the first game only, after which Morocco is forced to withdraw from the tournament due to lack of players.

14. Samoa will prepare a huge feast in the middle of the pitch by digging a large hole and filling it with burning embers. They will invite the opposition over by saying "We'd like to have you for dinner." Only when the opposition arrive at the pit will they realise that there is no meat and that they are, in fact, the main course.

Hopefully, with these policies now in place, further problems in this area should cease to exist.

 

[southsider]

Sorry, I was wrong. There was talk of getting rid of the final move of Kapa O Pango in 2005/06 soon after they debuted it and that remained the case for a couple of years and then they seemed to revert to the throatcutting gesture.

It's a traditional dance that is synonymous with rugby. I really don't think there is that much of a reason to get worked up about it. Yes, opposing teams just stand there and watch because that is the respectful thing to do.

Just like when the anthems are being sung or there is a minute of silence for one team's loss, the other team respects that. I don't see any reason why that should change.

I really think the only benefit the All Blacks get out of the haka is if the opposition starts overthinking it and working out ways to 'combat' it.

If the opposition just takes it as their final opportunity to stand together as a team and focus on the game that is about to start and what they need to do whilst the other team performs their traditional dance, I really can't see it as being a disadvantage.

id like to point out I have absolutely no problem with the AB's actually performing the haka, ive been known to abuse friends/family who change the channel while its being performed.

Well the thing is they don't all just stand there, I don't see where your getting this whole warped idea of "respect" from, I respect the haka, I love watching it but I don't see standing still and doing nothing is the right way to do it. as guys above had said its a WAR dance it is used to intimidate, I personally think its a bit weak to just stand there all "respectful and quiet" and just take it. At the very least get up in their faces, let them know your there and ready to play, so long as it doesn't become a biff they should give that intimidation right back to them

 

[Braveheart81]

In that minute leading up to kickoff, I'd much prefer the Wallaby players thinking about those opening moments of the game and what they need to do than worrying about doing something to counteract some perceived advantage of performing the haka.

It's only intimidating if you let it intimidate you. Trying to have your own show of force in retaliation is surely just giving credence to the fact that you find it intimidating.

Anyway, clearly we disagree. Let's move on.

 

[Zander]

I believe there's a distinct advantage to performing the haka while the other team must stand there, especially on cold nights.

 

[southsider]

In that minute leading up to kickoff, I'd much prefer the Wallaby players thinking about those opening moments of the game and what they need to do than worrying about doing something to counteract some perceived advantage of performing the haka.

It's only intimidating if you let it intimidate you. Trying to have your own show of force in retaliation is surely just giving credence to the fact that you find it intimidating.

its a physiological advantage it gets them in that mindset that they are going to battle and need to gear up, its like a switch and when its performed they know its go time. With a minute till kickoff what else should you be thinking about? the gameplan? should have had that downpat a week ago, don't need to think about it. your opposite number? what better way to think about him than spotting him in the haka, going and arking up to him and thinking im going to belt that prick the second he gets the ball. Its not a worry, it should be a natural instinct, a mindset of "we arnt going to just stand here and take this quietly".

 

[No4918]

I usually wonder what the big deal is but then am reminded everytime I see it. The only thing I could say is that maybe if they were to perform it after there anthem. So right before kick of when at home but before the home teams anthem when away.