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Northern Hemishpere Rugby 2013

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the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
Thought some of you might be interested in my report of the Dragons V Munster game I attended on friday night.

True enough but the Dragons are playing very well this year. The fella I was sat next to confirmed I wasn't imagining how well organised they were. He thinks it is as good as he had seen from the team in many a year.

I don't think RP underestimated them. The massive pack wore them down and the excellent Barry O'Mahony came on to great affect. But even then we could not break down their well organised defence.

I thought our front row went well, I cannot comment on the penalty for collapsing against Archer for the opening NGD penalty as it was on the far side on the far side as it were. That was the only issue and generally the scrums were going up and players popping without penalty which I happen to be quite pleased to see. Their scrum was penalised twice for pushing early which normally indicates they are struggling but generally the scrum went well, the only other penalty against us was at the last scrum where BJB did one of his trademark collapses which didn't kid the ref IMHO.

Archer and Killer both carried well and generally our defence around the fringes was strong. BJB won and lost a penalty and Cronin put himself about, he was not helped by one horrible pass late in the game. Very close for who starts at LHP next weekend, probably Killer because of his experience but great to have options. Similarly BJB will probably get the nod but Archer is solid and offers plenty around the field.

I felt DOC was not as dynamic as he has been at times this season but he seems to vary his role when Paulie, who I would have said carried as much as anyone last night, is playing. POC grew into the game and put in some great carries, he seemed to be livid when penalised for some off the ball stuff late in the second half, again a long way from me so hard to judge. Nagle did not do a great deal and worryingly needed the assistance of the medical team during his brief cameo.

The outstanding performance in the BR was from Coughlan. He carried dynamically affected one terrific choke tackle which destroyed NGD momentum and provided his slight limp as he came off is nothing serious, I would have him start on Sunday alongside POM and Dougall. Maybe it is me but I am just not totally convinced by CJ. Admittedly I don't think he is a proper 7 which didn't help, especially against a side chucking it about and with a lot of pace out wide, but he drops too many balls (bit of a tendency to do the flash one handed carry?) and can go missing a bit defensively. I don't think Billy Holland at six in that back row quite worked, sometimes things seemed to be happening a bit quickly but he put in some good tackles and I felt he captained the side well as evidenced by the composure shown in winning the game.

Barry O'Mahony took his chance with both hands. It was his excellent work at the breakdown that led to the monster kick penalty. He is a proper 7 and I think we are a better team when a proper 7 starts.

Duncan Williams had a bit of a frustrating game, I counted three passes that went astray in the first half but for one of those I thought the NGD line was a way offside. His kicking was, however a considerable improvement, as it was throughout the team. He improved considerably in the second half, the quick tap penalty which led to their binning was cleverly done even if the yellow card was a bit harsh on the NGD player, IMHO. Sheridan's introduction did not see a marked improvement, IMHO, but I am increasingly of the opinion that it is very hard to come on as a 9 and change too much about a teams play.

Keatley took his time to get into the game, understandably considering his lack of recent gametime but a very good early touch finder from a NGD penalty seemed to calm the nerves and he grew into the game. I am not sure if it was him or the understanding with Downey and Stander but I was never entirely confident in the defending of the 10-12 channel. But all in he was fairly flat, kept the defence honest and would probably have been my MOTM. I think he will start on Sunday and hope he gains confidence from this display, especially his excellent kicking, only one kick that went astray the whole game I think. His penultimate penalty was a massive kick, physically and mentally, that I think will really stand to him in the long term.

Downey carried and defended as he always does. He will probably start next weekend but it must be very close with Ivan Dineen at this stage, I just don't think Downey has the hands or eye for a gap that Dineen does.

Keith Earls took his time to get going as well, inevitable given the lack of gametime but he gradually warmed to the task and, one shocking pass to James Cronin late on in the piece notwithstanding, distributed well. I have discussed the binning above, I hope the citing commissioner is not interested in a slightly tippy tackle as well. Given the lack of gametime and injuries elsewhere, he will be on the wing on Sunday but, after yesterday, I see no reason why he will not be pushing LLL hard for the 13 jersey provided, please God, he can stay fit!?!

Denis Hurley put in his usual reliable shift, a second full back really, he is a great man to have in the squad, dependable and strong. He will never have the pace to set the world alight but he never lets us down. He was unlucky with the early high tackle which seemed to precipitate the Earls binning, the NGD player slipped/ ducked into the challenge.

I have made my comments on GVDH above, hope his arm is ok this morning. I think he is a shrewd piece of business on what we saw yesterday.

Felix had another excellent game, looks to be really getting some confidence and, dare I say it putting on some weight which doesn't hurt. He kicked well on occasions which I was pleased to see.

Varley did well although there were a couple of silly penalties I think.

Taking yesterday into account I think the panel for Perpignan will be 1. Kilcoyne, 2. Varley, 3. BJB, 4. DOC, 5. POC, 6. POM, 7. Dougall, 8. Coughlan, 9. Murray, 10. Keatley, 11. Johne, 12. Downey, 13. LLL, 14. Earls, 15. Felix.

16. Sherry(touch wood), 17. Cronin, 18 Archer, 19. Holland, 20. Stander, 21. Williams, 22. JJ , 23. Hurley.

Finally a word on the Rodney parade experience. It is not smart or shiny but it feels like a proper club, not a franchise, with a decent, knowledgable crowd. I was delighted to see their team playing so well and over 7000 there to watch, including a large number of Munster supporters. All in it feels like it was a good win against tough opponents. Onwards to next Sunday.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
The PRL have confirmed that they aren't going to compete in the Heineken Cup next year. They are still banging on about qualification, funds distribution and now how the seedings are calculated. Their leadership have completely failed in their attempt to take over European rugby and I'm delighted that the Unions saw through their bluster and didn't cave in.

Some of the English clubs are going to feel a serious pinch without the European games next season. If the rumours are to be believed their TV deal is now worth less than the prior one they had because they haven't delivered on the European element. With only 4 clubs turning a profit in the league there are a lot of clubs who'll miss the TV revenue, ticket sales, corporate sales, merchandise etc that European rugby brings and if they continue to sit out the likes of Wasps, Irish, Sale could face going to the wall. I was hoping that they would hold their leadership accountable but they still have a pipedream of playing the South African sides. Worcester against Golden Lions in Volgograd #itswhatthepeoplewantapparently, somehow I just can't see it happening.

Heineken Cup: English clubs confirm exit from tournament


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/25228509

English clubs set to boycott Heineken Cup after emergency meeting

Premiership Rugby statement makes clear kernel of the matter has always been about power

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...-cup-after-emergency-meeting-1.1618390?page=1
 

KevinO

Geoff Shaw (53)
So I have watched the Ulster and Leinster demonstrations of attacking rugby this weekend, currently watching Munster who are looking strong as well.

If Northampton are second in the premiership and put in that kind of performance at home it does not look like much of a loss losing the English clubs till they wake up to themselves.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
Great weekend for the Irish teams, 3 bonus point wins and a win in France for the Westies. Lets hope all 4 teams can back it up again next week.

Some of the rugby Leinster played was sublime, Ian Madigan is a delight when he is fizzing flat passes out like he was on Saturday night. Funny how when the chips are down flat track bullies like Hartley and Lawes were no where to be seen.
 

Sidbarret

Fred Wood (13)
Maybe it is me but I am just not totally convinced by CJ. Admittedly I don't think he is a proper 7 which didn't help, especially against a side chucking it about and with a lot of pace out wide, but he drops too many balls (bit of a tendency to do the flash one handed carry?) and can go missing a bit defensively.

------

I have made my comments on GVDH above, hope his arm is ok this morning. I think he is a shrewd piece of business on what we saw yesterday.



Surprised about Stander. He was hyped as future long-term Springbok before he left, many thinking he would captain the side in the future. People were surprised and disappointed when he decided to join Munster while being in the wider training group.

Saw one game he played at Munster and thought it strange that the commentators were referring to him as "big", a flanker under 1.9m would never be described as big down here. I wonder if he isn't maybe carrying a bit too much weight around.

Van der Heever is a fantastic athlete, but he was rumored to have a bit of an attitude. On the pitch he looked like he lacked the real drive to win 50/50 balls and make big tackles. At the end of his WP stint he had improved, so you might be right that Munster probably got a pretty good deal.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
Some interesting news coming out of Wales, apparently the WRU are going to cut ties with the 4 existing regions and let them cuddle up with the English probably leading to these 4 regions folding in a matter of years.

They will then set up 2 regions in Wales, centrally contract all the out of contract Welsh international players (I think around 9 of them are coming up for renewal this year) and build two regions in the mould of Irish teams i.e. international players, supplemented with high quality foreign imports and academy players. I for one am waiting news of the WRU/RRW meeting tomorrow with serious interest.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
If this were a TV show it would be one of JJ Abrahams. But even he would probably say the script was too complicated and had too many twists. But unlike Lost I'm going to be glued to this one to the very end.

If the WRU do go ahead with their plan I hope to God they do some consultation with fans to ensure that whatever they create is something fans can identify with and get behind easier than the existing regions.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the existing regions did join the Premiership, especially once one or more of them got relegated to the Championship. But I hope for the sake of Welsh rugby it doesn't happen.

I've got a lot of time for Welsh fans and I hope all this gets sorted soon. I'd be really pissed off if the IRFU and Irish Provinces were playing a game of brinkmanship like this.

When stuff like this happens no matter who "wins" there are always rugby fans losing out. As an outsider I'd say that English fans enthusiasm for the HEC has really increased in the last couple of seasons. I don't think the LV Cup is going to fill the void next season. But hopefully for the 2015-16 season we'll be back with all of Europe's top teams back in the competition.
 

FingalRaven

Frank Nicholson (4)
Some interesting news coming out of Wales, apparently the WRU are going to cut ties with the 4 existing regions and let them cuddle up with the English probably leading to these 4 regions folding in a matter of years.

They will then set up 2 regions in Wales, centrally contract all the out of contract Welsh international players (I think around 9 of them are coming up for renewal this year) and build two regions in the mould of Irish teams i.e. international players, supplemented with high quality foreign imports and academy players. I for one am waiting news of the WRU/RRW meeting tomorrow with serious interest.


The major flaw with that is that 2 regions are not enough to support a national side. Just look at Scotland, no strength in depth and one of the reasons Connacht were allowed to continue. Perhaps the WRU will expand when the break away regions go kaput in the expanded EPL.

Too many questions around the Welsh breakaway regions involvement in the EPL. What happens if one of them finishes bottom of the pile in the first season and loses the play off? Do they get relegated or does the expanded EPL become another Rabo with no relegation? Are the regions contracted to take part in the Rabo? Do the regions own all the branding rights or has the WRU got a stake? Welsh sports rights lawyers could be gamefully employed for the next couple of years at least.
 

Sidbarret

Fred Wood (13)
How does this thing with the Welsh regions work anyway.

On page 69 of the IRB handbook #mce_temp_url# it says -

A Club or Rugby Body may only be affiliated to one Union and shall be subject to the jurisdiction of the bye-laws, rules and regulations of that Union. A Club or Rugby Body may only be affiliated to the Union within whose geographical boundaries its Home Ground is situated and shall only be entitled to play in Matches organised, recognised or sanctioned by that Union, unless specific approval has been given by both Unions. No Club or Rugby Body shall be entitled to change the location of its Home Ground or the name by which its senior teams are known, without the prior written consent of the Union to which it is affiliated.

Surely the regions can't simply upsticks and join the AP without the consent of the WRU.
 

FingalRaven

Frank Nicholson (4)
How does this thing with the Welsh regions work anyway.

On page 69 of the IRB handbook #mce_temp_url# it says -



Surely the regions can't simply upsticks and join the AP without the consent of the WRU.


They think they can based on legal advice which cites a legal case around Newport County Soccer club 20 years ago.

BBC
Newport County, the football club which had been reformed after going bankrupt, was told by the Football Association of Wales (FAW) that it would no longer be able to play in the English league system and had to take part in what was the then League of Wales.
The club, along with Colwyn Bay and Caernarfon Town, took the FAW to the High Court and won, and last season secured promotion back to the Football League.
The WRU wants more control over the regions and central contracts like the Irish model while the regions want more funding and less control. So now the WRU has it's finger on the red button ready to kill off the regions as they prepare to jump ship.

The link below explains it better.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-war-everything-you-6388161

Certainly a book or two is this sorry saga.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
I think the Welsh are going for 3 regions now Neath, Pontypridd and North Wales. I got that wrong yesterday

I think the WRU are going to stop funding the 4 current regions and they will affiliate themselves with the RFU and effectively become English teams. The regions have a lot of debt which will also go with them. How happy the RFU will be to accept them with the debts is anyones guess.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
Welsh regions offered 4 millions of Mrs Windsors finest pounds to join the Aviva. WRU are allegedly content to let it happen are looking at central contracts and setting up their own teams. The regions are contracted to the Pro12 until 2016 so I wouldn't even be sure that 4 million would cover the lawsuit they'd lose to the IRFU, SRU and FIR.

Interesting few weeks ahead for Welsh rugby. Their could be a scenario where Gatland can't access the majority his players until 6 weeks before the start of the RWC.

Regions offered £4m to quit Pro12


http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_9092499,00.html
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
That shuts down and loon brained idea of having SA teams compete in some NH comp.

The Welsh would basically take anything right now wouldn't they?
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
The Welsh would basically take anything right now wouldn't they?

The regions and their fans seem hell bent on getting into the England comp, they've overlooked the fact that the RFU, WRU and IRB would have to approve it. Also they'll be looking at a drop in funding 4.5M to 4M, an independent report commissioned last year showed that they'd need to double their attendances to become self sufficient. They seem to be relying on this increase coming from English opposition too heavily IMO. If they can't draw crowds playing Leinster, Munster etc why would Sale, Worcester or Wasps draw a crowd? If they played in the English leagues it means that the national team would have less access to their players which in the lead up to a World Cup group containing England and Australia could be disastrous.

The rest of Welsh rugby, the Union and the Principality Premiership clubs and fans, seem to want to start at day zero. Start their own franchises (North, East and West I believe) and contract high profile Welsh stars to each. They would want to directly model their set up on what the IRFU did around 1999.

Its a mess really which IMO is being encouraged by the PRL behind the scenes to get more leverage in the Heineken Cup row. The only people who will benefit will be the lawyers.
 

KevinO

Geoff Shaw (53)
RFU needs to bite the bullet and kill the clubs. It needed to be done 15 years ago, but better late than never.

Don't even need to kill the clubs, just put them back in their place when it comes to organizing competitions that the unions are in control.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
In the end the fans will have a big say in who comes out on top. There aren't enough fans to keep the existing regions and the proposed 3 new teams going.

On top of that the RFU will need to think about what 8 extra league games each season will mean for their elite playing group. Sure there's no English clubs in the HEC next year but eventually they'll be back in some kind of pan European competition and they'll still have the 8 additional league games.

The Welsh regions breaking away will be rely on the move enabling them to keep their star players. But once the European club competition is sorted out the top players will want to be playing for the teams that qualify. The regions could move to the Premiership and still end up losing their top players to English clubs.

If one of the Welsh regions gets relegated to the championship they would probably fold unless they've negotiated some kind of parachute deal.

It terrible to see what politics does to the game. As fans all we want to see is the best teams and players playing each other. But in this whole mess no one is looking out for the fans. The only time we get a mention is because it makes a good sound bite for the media to say they want to have it resolved for everyone "especially the fans". But anyone who believes that must have been born yesterday.

I wonder how some of the Welsh guys on here feel about the whole mess.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
WRU statement on the RRW not signing the participation agreement

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/29209.php#.UsNkvqUXPa5

Key point for me is

The WRU also remains confident that a European rugby cup competition under the management of the ERC will take place next season. Welsh teams will also continue to play in the Pro12 league organised by Celtic Rugby Ltd.

Furthermore the WRU reaffirms its commitment to the International Rugby Board's regulations which provide that cross-border competitions and tournaments may only take place with the full approval of the relevant unions.

WRU are prepared to set up their own teams to ensure the Pro12 continues with Welsh representation. Also they aren't going to approve the RRW wish of getting into bed with the PRL and don't seem phased by threats of court action.
 
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