Argentina v Australia, Mendoza 4/10/14

[ACT Crusader]

The time might have come to give Bob Dwyer's idea a crack and play Kuridrani at 12 with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13.

Forget about having 2 "playmakers" kicking the ball away and just run over the Argies.

And while we're there, Izzy to wing, KB (Kurtley Beale) to fullback.

Is that you Robbie?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Anybody who proposes Beale anywhere in the XV I reckon you're a fucking idiot. Anybody who proposes him in the 23 you're still on thin ice with me.

 

[Braveheart81]

Anybody who proposes Beale anywhere in the XV I reckon you're a fucking idiot. Anybody who proposes him in the 23 you're still on thin ice with me.

At least he tackled reasonably in this test.

He'd have been an easy player to leave out of the 23 for the Argentina test if we had more options and To'omua wasn't in doubt.

As it stands, he could start the test at 12 if To'omua is unavailable. I'd give Horne a crack starting there out of the options we have on tour. Beale can retain his bench spot (just).

 

[Train Without a Station]

That's perfectly reasonably thinking BH. I was just being dramatic in response to posters who STILL advocate shifting Folau to wing and Beale to fullback. Hard to mount a counter attack knocking on high balls.

Beale just has too many well known and exploitable weaknesses to play him in front of anybody else. Injury will see him stay in the team for now, but he surely has to be outside our best 23 without injuries.

 

[Braveheart81]

Beale just has too many well known and exploitable weaknesses to play him in front of anybody else. Injury will see him stay in the team for now, but he surely has to be outside our best 23 without injuries.

If everyone is fit and healthy and in form, I definitely think Beale is in our best 23.

Presumably when you're considering who makes the side when everyone is healthy, you're assuming those players also have the requisite good form needed. For that exercise, you've also got to assume that a current player whose form is average will be in good form.

 

[Wilson]

If everyone is fit and healthy and in form, I definitely think Beale is in our best 23.

Presumably when you're considering who makes the side when everyone is healthy, you're assuming those players also have the requisite good form needed. For that exercise, you've also got to assume that a current player whose form is average will be in good form.

Where would you use him?

 

[Braveheart81]

Where would you use him?

Where he currently is. As a reserve back who covers 10/12/15. All things being equal (in terms of form etc.), if Cooper wins back the 10 jersey I think Beale provides more on the bench than Foley does.

 

[Lindommer]

In reply to the earlier question about Scott Sio's rehabilitation, spoke to his father yesterday at Brookie, he's about six weeks away.

 

[Wilson]

Where he currently is. As a reserve back who covers 10/12/15. All things being equal (in terms of form etc.), if Cooper wins back the 10 jersey I think Beale provides more on the bench than Foley does.

I cut the other way with a bench of Phipps, Foley and whichever of JOC (James O'Connor) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) don't make the 15, probably AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

This is all ignoring hunt for the moment, if he plays to his potential he will be impossible to ignore and offers similar utility.

 

[Braveheart81]

I cut the other way with a bench of Phipps, Foley and whichever of JOC (James O'Connor) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) don't make the 15, probably AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

This is all ignoring hunt for the moment, if he plays to his potential he will be impossible to ignore and offers similar utility.

All these players are 'impossible to ignore' when in their best form.

In terms of utility value and game-breaking potential, Beale is close to top of that list as a bench option for that role.

Hopefully we end up in a situation next year where all these players are available and playing well and tough choices need to be made.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Presumably when you're considering who makes the side when everyone is healthy, you're assuming those players also have the requisite good form needed. For that exercise, you've also got to assume that a current player whose form is average will be in good form.

Regardless of how good Beale's form is he will still be poor under the high ball, a poor defender and soft in contact. 2014 has shown that. He was exceptional in Super Rugby in 2014. Yet every 2nd test he has been woeful for us, and generally not related to his attacking form.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Obviously he can improve these things. But that needs to be seen for this to change.

 

[fatprop]

While our forwards stay soft at the tackle, it isn't going to improve anytime soon, and we might as well stick another defender/crash baller in 12, we need our backs to get across the advantage line, because our forwards can't and keep the ball.

 

[Biffo]

we need our backs to get across the advantage line, because our forwards can't and keep the ball.

very good point.

where and how you get across the advantage line are almost as important as whether you do.
all good international teams (except the Wallabies) and almost all good province teams have serious boshing power in the centres.
in some cases, the boshing comes from the centres themselves - think what damage Nonu and SBW could do - and in some cases it comes from backrowers helping out - Read and the RSA back rows are examples.
as an example of boshing power in the backs, look at what the Crusaders did in making a trucking career out of Nandalo. think what The Great Cheik, Gibson and Gray will make of the unpronounceable bloke they have recruited for the Tahs wing.

i suspect Australian rugby has been very slow in recognizing how important boshing "wide of the ruck" has become.

 

[Ash]

It's hard to keep the ball when your 9/10/12 put in poorly executed short kicks, or just poorly executed kicks in general. At some stages of the last Bok game we actually held onto the ball for long periods of time, but we just did nothing with it - even when getting over the advantage line.

I'm expecting Beale to come into 12, with Lilo onto the bench if To'omua is out, otherwise To'omua will stay at 12.

 

[Viking]

All these players are 'impossible to ignore' when in their best form.

In terms of utility value and game-breaking potential, Beale is close to top of that list as a bench option for that role.

Hopefully we end up in a situation next year where all these players are available and playing well and tough choices need to be made.

its not 2010 anymore. Last year Beale was a liability. Same with this year.
Foley has shown this year his impact from the bench, as soon as he came on we saw some spark. That as more then Beale has done from the bench. I would take Foley over him any day.

Utility value and game-breaking potential is meaningless when you have glaringly exploitable weaknesses like KB (Kurtley Beale) has. You might as well argue Mogg should be in the team too, at least he can kick good.

'impossible to ignore' - i don't think so.

 

[boyo]

very good point.

where and how you get across the advantage line are almost as important as whether you do.
all good international teams (except the Wallabies) and almost all good province teams have serious boshing power in the centres.
in some cases, the boshing comes from the centres themselves - think what damage Nonu and SBW could do - and in some cases it comes from backrowers helping out - Read and the RSA back rows are examples.
as an example of boshing power in the backs, look at what the Crusaders did in making a trucking career out of Nandalo. think what The Great Cheik, Gibson and Gray will make of the unpronounceable bloke they have recruited for the Tahs wing.

i suspect Australian rugby has been very slow in recognizing how important boshing "wide of the ruck" has become.

Gatlandball.

 

[Beefcake]

its not 2010 anymore. Last year Beale was a liability. Same with this year.
Foley has shown this year his impact from the bench, as soon as he came on we saw some spark. That as more then Beale has done from the bench. I would take Foley over him any day.

Utility value and game-breaking potential is meaningless when you have glaringly exploitable weaknesses like KB (Kurtley Beale) has. You might as well argue Mogg should be in the team too, at least he can kick good.

'impossible to ignore' - i don't think so.

What is impossible to ignore is the struggle with the basics (ie tackling and points scoring) the former being a team function (or lack of for the 80) and the latter concentrated in the fly, with all contenders being consistently poor... To'omua, not enough time in settle in, Beale, yes but we also know he is a game changer (and winner) and Foley has not shown the arsenal that his groupies trumpet... i hear it, but glaringly I see no points on the board, nor the ability to unlock one of the most potent back lines on paper in world rugby, perhaps the safest fly in the game... Is there such a thing call safe rugby... I was thinking Foley would almost be a Cooper Cronk clone if league was his poison

 

[Tomikin]

Beale depending on the game can break it right open off the bench.. that was not the game, I suspect he may not have come on if To'omua wasn't concussed but it was an attempt to win the game not try not to lose.

Beale to start Lilo to the bench.

 

[Tomikin]

What is impossible to ignore is the struggle with the basics (ie tackling and points scoring) the former being a team function (or lack of for the 80) and the latter concentrated in the fly, with all contenders being consistently poor. To'omua, not enough time in settle in, Beale, yes but we also know he is a game changer (and winner) and Foley has not shown the arsenal that his groupies trumpet. i hear it, but glaringly I see no points on the board, nor the ability to unlock one of the most potent back lines on paper in world rugby, perhaps the safest fly in the game. Is there such a thing call safe rugby. I was thinking Foley would almost be a Cooper Cronk clone if league was his poison

I think your kidding Cooper Cronk would have been a great wallaby