Homophobic remark in Tahs Brumbies game

[Tex]

I love how it's (generally) white men who go on about marginalised groups needing to grow a thick skin, as if being called a "fucking horse's dick" is somehow equal to calling someone a nigger or faggot. They're ugly, hurtful words that have zero fucking place in modern Australia. Those who argue the opposite need to extract their heads from their arses.

I'm surprised there's even a discussion about this, to be honest.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm surprised there's even a discussion about this, to be honest.

Exactly..........

And the fact that there is completely justifies the action taken by Pocock and Moore.

 

[Chris McCracken]

I'm surprised there's even a discussion about this, to be honest.

You understand that attitudes are changed through discussion, right?

Not everyone can be brought to the same level of edification by magic. It takes discussion. It takes understanding on both sides of that discussion, as well.

 

[Tex]

Forgive my naivety, but what's there to discuss?

 

[Braveheart81]

You understand that attitudes are changed through discussion, right?

Not everyone can be brought to the same level of edification by magic. It takes discussion. It takes understanding on both sides of that discussion, as well.

I'd say it more takes middle-aged white men realising that they are not the font of all knowledge when it comes to what is offensive or not and what is best for women and various minority groups.

 

[Chris McCracken]

Forgive my naivety, but what's there to discuss?

Some obviously have a different position to you. If you think stifling their opinion, rather than discussing it with them is the way to address that, I say good luck to you.

 

[Chris McCracken]

I'd say it more takes middle-aged white men realising that they are not the font of all knowledge when it comes to what is offensive or not and what is best for women and various minority groups.

Or perhaps a combination of that, along with more progressive minds realising that those people may not be able to shake their upbringing all that easily and bring them along, rather than labelling them Neanderthals.

 

[papabear]

I stand by my point that one should try not to be insulted or hurt when someone else says something hurtful.

that doesn't diminish the fact that these things that are said are hurtful, just don't let it bring you down to their level.

on the matter of saying disparaging remarks, remarks such as
"middle aged white men (followed by something derogatory)" is also marginalising and offensive.

In the same as
"Young white men (followed by derogatory thing)"
is marginalising and offensive
or
"old white men (followed by something derogatory)"
is marginalising and offensive.

It would be nice to try not to be offensive in a thread condemning saying offensive things???

 

[Braveheart81]

on the matter of saying disparaging remarks, remarks such as
"middle aged white men (followed by something derogatory)" is also marginalising and offensive.

Sorry for marginalising the most powerful and privileged section of society!

 

[liquor box]

I love how it's (generally) white men who go on about marginalised groups needing to grow a thick skin, as if being called a "fucking horse's dick" is somehow equal to calling someone a nigger or faggot. They're ugly, hurtful words that have zero fucking place in modern Australia. Those who argue the opposite need to extract their heads from their arses.

I'm surprised there's even a discussion about this, to be honest.

There is a time and place for everything, in my close circle of friends we might use the word fag or nigga to each other and have been doing so for about the last 25 years.

We quite often say "whats up nigga" as a greeting ever since we first saw the movie Boyz in tha hood.

We often use the word fag similarly to how it is used in south park as a fun term to take the piss out of a mate.

I guess this admission makes me a racist and homophobic even though I have never treated anyone differently or discriminated against anyone based on their lifestyle or race.


That being said there is a time and place for everything and I would never use those words outside my close group of friends and certainly not on TV or in my workplace as I realise they are offensive terms (footballers workplaces are on the field). I believe that how and when a word is used is the main factor of how to decide if it is wrong.


The penalty was deserved after the game and I guess we will never know the intent of the words used.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

No, in that build you character strong enough that you are able to persevere and not be hurt by offensive things people might say to you and about you.

<snip>

Do you know of any homosexual folk that have sufficient strength of character that they don't mind being referred to any one of the numerous offensive and degrading names in common use? Once off? Continuously?

What about the Ch**ks, W**s, D**os, F*Bs, Rag***ds, Ka**irs, Ni**ers, Fa**y Bo**ahs, Pi**a Faces, C**ns, Bo**gers, R*d S** Pedest**ians, Pen**l D**ks, Big Ears, Spa**ics, Mon**ls, etc. out there in the real world? How is their strength of character going?

One Stick, or One Stone, one Name may not hurt, but a constant unrelenting barrage?

Sometimes the marginalised group adopts the pejorative names amongst themselves, possibly to try and take some of the sting out of the pain, but even in those cases the word is seldom used in a derogatory manner.

When it is, the hurt is real, and it has consequences.

 

[Tex]

There is a time and place for everything, in my close circle of friends we might use the word fag or nigga to each other and have been doing so for about the last 25 years.

We quite often say "whats up nigga" as a greeting ever since we first saw the movie Boyz in tha hood.

We often use the word fag similarly to how it is used in south park as a fun term to take the piss out of a mate.

I guess this admission makes me a racist and homophobic even though I have never treated anyone differently or discriminated against anyone based on their lifestyle or race.


That being said there is a time and place for everything and I would never use those words outside my close group of friends and certainly not on TV or in my workplace as I realise they are offensive terms (footballers workplaces are on the field). I believe that how and when a word is used is the main factor of how to decide if it is wrong.


The penalty was deserved after the game and I guess we will never know the intent of the words used.

I get that and have certainly been guilty of the same. I don't believe that it necessarily makes that person homophobic or racist, maybe more careless and ignorant of the effect of vilifying language.

 

[papabear]

Sorry for marginalising the most powerful and privileged section of society!

tbh I am not offended stick and stones and all of that.

and I consider myself young not middle aged.

and the colour of my skin is not important.

 

[Bullrush]

I am against homophobia and any sort of marginalising anyone.

The element of sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me seems to have fallen by the wayside in todays world.

I'm a believer in the saying, 'It's not what they call you, it's what you answer to' so I understand where you are coming from.

However, I am acutely aware that there are other people in the world who haven't had the huge privilege, blessing and good fortune I have had of having a good up-bringing by parents who love and support me.
Good family and friends who affirm who I am.
Having certain talents and gifts that make it easier for me to 'fit in' comfortably in most day-to-day settings.
Confidence to stand-up against bullying and harassment should it happen to me.

It seems to me that telling people to 'harden up' or build enough character to handle abuse is akin to telling women to dress more appropriately if they don't want to be harassed.

As a side point - whenever the term 'gay' or 'faggot' is said to me, I usually say something like, 'What's wrong with being gay?' If I'm offended by it, am I no better than the one saying it?

 

[papabear]

Do you know of any homosexual folk that have sufficient strength of character that they don't mind being referred to any one of the numerous offensive and degrading names in common use? Once off? Continuously?

What about the Ch**ks, W**s, D**os, F*Bs, Rag***ds, Ka**irs, Ni**ers, Fa**y Bo**ahs, Pi**a Faces, C**ns, Bo**gers, R*d S** Pedest**ians, Pen**l D**ks, Big Ears, Spa**ics, Mon**ls, etc. out there in the real world? How is their strength of character going?

One Stick, or One Stone, one Name may not hurt, but a constant unrelenting barrage?

Sometimes the marginalised group adopts the pejorative names amongst themselves, possibly to try and take some of the sting out of the pain, but even in those cases the word is seldom used in a derogatory manner.

When it is, the hurt is real, and it has consequences.

I am sure 100% of people in the world would rather not be barraged with anything negative if given the option.

But by the same token most people I know (if not all) homosexual or heterosexual or somewhere in between imo have the strength of character to rise above (and not be hurt) by being called something like the above. Then we can move into the semantic discussion of what being hurt is, if you like.

 

[papabear]

bullrush I appreciate your comments and agree with a lot of your sentiment.

But I don't think suggesting building character as a positive way to move forward in any situation whether its abuse or whatever life throws at you is the same as telling a woman to dress appropriately or be harassed.

One is imo a handy life skill/trait that will help people live their life in a more positive manner.

The other is just sexual prejudice.

I suppose it comes down to what the innuendo people read into my original post was. Either way it in no way was intended to justify marginlasing mean and hurtful comments ( I reiterate that I am 100 percent against them). IMO they are disgusting.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I am sure 100% of people in the world would rather not be barraged with anything negative if given the option.

But by the same token most people I know (if not all) homosexual or heterosexual or somewhere in between imo have the strength of character to rise above (and not be hurt) by being called something like the above. Then we can move into the semantic discussion of what being hurt is, if you like.

You must mix in different circles to those in the GLBT community who commit suicide at 6 times the national rate.

 

[louie]

What a lot of people are missing here is the historic context of the word. Faggot drags along with it events and attitudes that plagued people for 1000s of years. It's not about language or offence of language. It's about history and context. The the last time i looked bastards and red heads still have the same rights have everyone else. People that identify as being gay don't.

My opinion is that David Pocock is fucking hero. There's a great quote that goes along the lines of "cowards hide behind the freedom their allowed, brave people stand in front of it and fight for it for others." If every child looked up to him we'd have a great future.

 

[Scrubber2050]

This is the last time I'll make this point, but Scrubber it really isn't about offending people. Can you not see how the impact of that kind of language and it's implications would affect gay men in ways much more serious than offence? People have already mentioned suicide statistics.

Just like a black person would not feel welcome or accepted if people used "nigger" in the same way they use "faggot". When you call someone a "faggot" and you really mean "fuckhead" or whatever, you are associating gayness with negative connotations - now repeat that ad infinitum in every schoolyard, pub, footy field, wherever in the country for decades. It's about stamping something out that has a gigantic impact on people's mental health and it just does not compare in any way to just being insulted. It's not a guess that it has this impact and down-the-pub common sense doesn't refute it - it's well documented.

I really agree with most your post. My point is a subjective one. If YOU are the person insulted/offended/horrified by vilification then it is real. EG Calling someone a "nigger" throws up all sorts of horrible things - slavery blah blah

Reminds me of the story of Cassius Clay, after winning the Olympic medal back in the day, Walking rthrough a small town (in the South) upon his return, he entered a Diner for a feed. The Redneck said "We don;'t serve coloured folk in here" "CC said I'm CC and just I just won the gold medal for America.

Redneck replied: "Fuck off nigger" CC left the diner and threw his gold medal into the adjacent river. HE OBVIOUSLY WAS A BIT PISSED.

The only good part is the finish. The IOC in its total history has only ever replaced one gold medal, This one - at the 1996 Olympics to CC (now Ali)

 

[papabear]

HJ if you are making a point about suicide and sexuality, that is indeed a very sad statistic.

If you are trying to suggest a hypothesis to what drives that statistic, then fair enough I will leave you to elaborate on that if you like. I simply don't have any answers here or anything of value to add.

If you are trying to suggest that the environment I come from and am in, is not wide enough to include people of all sexual orientation, then rest assured you are incorrect.

FTR I am all for people reporting behaviour that is not tolerant, hurtful and mean, which also hurts the image of rugby.