KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
I copped a pasting last year for suggesting Beale's skillset was ideal for him to be selected on the wing and used in a roving role. And that was a) when we didn't have any wingers, and b) before he sent the text!
Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC
- Thread starter emuarse
- Start date
- Status
I copped a pasting last year for suggesting Beale's skillset was ideal for him to be selected on the wing and used in a roving role. And that was a) when we didn't have any wingers, and b) before he sent the text!
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
I would not mention Lyons in the same sentence as Willie O and Kefu.
Perhaps it comes down to the definition of the word "impact". I would add Ben Tune, Matthew Burke (as much for his goal kicking as anything else) and Benn Robinson during his all-too-brief time as best loose-head in the universe.
I would not put Pocock into the Pantheon, just yet. Maybe after we win the RWC.
Since the putative topic of this little segment is number 8s, my all-time Wallaby 8 is Tim Gavin, who never bashed anybody, either in attack or defence.
Definitely the unluckiest Wallaby of the post-war era. Should have had two Cups, arguably, but had none.
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
But do you think either of them deserve to be there on form this year?
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Even in that tackle he is an arm grabber and bounces off, he doesn't bend his back because like Beale (and Campese) and a few others he has the mind set of wanting to stay available and in play.
Test selection has never been based entirely on form.
The Wallabies have also been getting together throughout the year so in many ways, much of the wider squad would have been fairly settled since early in the year. That was a necessity if the coach wants to start working with the group prior to Super Rugby ending.
If I was the coach, I'd also be including these players in my first squad because they are known quantities with lots of test experience. The training paddock and the Rugby Championship will help whittle down those selections to a final RWC squad.
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
I accept all that BH but my question was = do you think that either deserve to be included on form during the whole of this Super year? I find it hard to decipher your opinion of players as distinct from your opinion of what you think the coach or selectors will do.
On 2015 Super Rugby form alone JOC (James O'Connor), KB (Kurtley Beale) and QC (Quade Cooper) (QC (Quade Cooper) mostly due to playing so few games) would only make the my initial 45+ man squad but wouldn't go any further.
One of the benefits those players get by having 40+ tests of experience behind them is that they get to be part of that initial squad anyway and all three have done enough to get to that stage. From there they would have to convince me they are needed in the reduced squad. QC (Quade Cooper) would really just need to prove fitness to make my RWC squad because he's clearly in our top two 10s and we need him there.
KB (Kurtley Beale) and JOC (James O'Connor) would need to show that their form is on an upwards trajectory and I'm not sure I could find a space for both in them in the final 31. I'd almost certainly find a place for one of them though.
There seems to be a school of thought from many commentors (often on the front page of the website only) that players like Dom Shipperly, Kyle Godwin, Mitch Inman, Dane Haylett-Petty etc. were painfully unlucky to miss out on the initial squad. What I don't understand is why any coach would select these players in the initial squad if they could not foresee or have no intention of including them in the final squad. That to me would be a pointless use of selections.
There's no room for sentimentality to include players in a Wallaby squad just to say well done on a good season if you don't think they're going to be selected to play test matches. The goal has to be to put the best squad together for the RWC, not to use the Wallaby squad just to announce who the form Super Rugby players were and then by omission, who underperformed relative to expectations.
A mutterer
Chilla Wilson (44)
what's the picture look like when you add rucks lost/turnovers?
i suspect beale getting isolated resulting in opposition ball would be quite high if not the highest.
J
john mcgomery
Guest
I was thinking a team along the lines of
1 Slipper
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4 Fardy
5 Jones
6 Higginbotham
7 Pocock
8 McCalman
9 Phipps
10 Cooper
11 Ashley- Cooper
12 To'omua
13 Kurindraini
14 Speight
15 Folau
16 Polotau Nau
17 Sio
18 Faulkner
19 Simmons
20 Hooper
21 Genia
22 Lealilifano/Foley
23 Horne
Thoughts?
1 Slipper
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4 Fardy
5 Jones
6 Higginbotham
7 Pocock
8 McCalman
9 Phipps
10 Cooper
11 Ashley- Cooper
12 To'omua
13 Kurindraini
14 Speight
15 Folau
16 Polotau Nau
17 Sio
18 Faulkner
19 Simmons
20 Hooper
21 Genia
22 Lealilifano/Foley
23 Horne
Thoughts?
BDA
Peter Johnson (47)
You make some good points BH.
I agree that on form Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) would probably make the extended squad but not the final 31.
But form is only part of the equation. Both players have had long test careers, having played in huge games. Both have on occasion been central to some of our biggest wins over the last 5 or 6 years. Both have won us games with clutch last minute kicks and tries. Both have stood out, on occasions, against the likes of the All Blacks. Both have the experience of slotting into less familiar roles on short notice.
I think both players' test records have suffered slightly as a result of a lack of pure 10/12 options over the last 4 years. Both were moved from their best position to 10 which diminished their effectiveness.
I'd say JOC (James O'Connor) has been slightly more consistent for the wallabies, but I think part of that is due to Beale having been dealing with a number of personal issues over the last 4 years, including presumably a drinking problem, which saw him come into a few games both physically and mentally out of shape.
I'd say the key to Beale is using him effectively. Mentally and Physically he looks to be in a good place right now. The problem for me is that he's a fullback, not a centre. The Tahs use him to fairly effectively at 12, but I'd suggest that they wouldn't play him there if Folau wasn't at 15. He's got a good boot and is a dangerous counter attacker. Personally I think creating a defensively staunch backline for the wallabies is paramount for the world cup, meaning no poor defenders in the line. Beale's strengths and weakness mean he is best left at the back.
With JOC (James O'Connor) I'd say it's more getting him mentally and physically right. He recently complained that he's been struggling with niggling injuries this season and its shown. I think the month off will help a lot. I suspect he'll also benefit from playing under a better coach/team environment. I lot of players have been underperforming under Richard Graham for a few years now.
I agree that on form Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) would probably make the extended squad but not the final 31.
But form is only part of the equation. Both players have had long test careers, having played in huge games. Both have on occasion been central to some of our biggest wins over the last 5 or 6 years. Both have won us games with clutch last minute kicks and tries. Both have stood out, on occasions, against the likes of the All Blacks. Both have the experience of slotting into less familiar roles on short notice.
I think both players' test records have suffered slightly as a result of a lack of pure 10/12 options over the last 4 years. Both were moved from their best position to 10 which diminished their effectiveness.
I'd say JOC (James O'Connor) has been slightly more consistent for the wallabies, but I think part of that is due to Beale having been dealing with a number of personal issues over the last 4 years, including presumably a drinking problem, which saw him come into a few games both physically and mentally out of shape.
I'd say the key to Beale is using him effectively. Mentally and Physically he looks to be in a good place right now. The problem for me is that he's a fullback, not a centre. The Tahs use him to fairly effectively at 12, but I'd suggest that they wouldn't play him there if Folau wasn't at 15. He's got a good boot and is a dangerous counter attacker. Personally I think creating a defensively staunch backline for the wallabies is paramount for the world cup, meaning no poor defenders in the line. Beale's strengths and weakness mean he is best left at the back.
With JOC (James O'Connor) I'd say it's more getting him mentally and physically right. He recently complained that he's been struggling with niggling injuries this season and its shown. I think the month off will help a lot. I suspect he'll also benefit from playing under a better coach/team environment. I lot of players have been underperforming under Richard Graham for a few years now.
I think Fardy will play 6, not lock. Skelton will be one of the two starting locks and Simmons will probably be the other one. Jones is a great shot though and would be in my best matchday 23 right now.
The balance of the backrow will depend on a couple of selections. My starting backrow currently would be Higginbotham, Pocock and Palu. Hooper would be on the bench and Fardy would be very unlucky to miss out. He had a great game against the Stormers though so could be finding his best form just at the right time.
If Fardy started I'd be leaning more towards Hooper at 7.
I don't think Faulkner will be anywhere near our best matchday 23 in 2015. Holmes or Alo-Emile should be the reserve THP.
Foley will start at 10.
Patrick Phibbs would seem like a long shot. Nick Phipps seems more likely at halfback.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Jeez mate I think you are way off the mark with those selections
By the way, who is that new halfback ? Haven't heard anything at all about him
Quite an interesting article on Beale's defensive frailties
http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/06/26/is-kurtley-beale-a-bad-defender-a-statistical-analysis/
Basically he misses one tackle more per game than most; and what is truly bizarre, for the Tahs, when he doesn't miss tackles, they are more likely to lose
http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/06/26/is-kurtley-beale-a-bad-defender-a-statistical-analysis/
Basically he misses one tackle more per game than most; and what is truly bizarre, for the Tahs, when he doesn't miss tackles, they are more likely to lose
J
john mcgomery
Guest
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Don't misquote me or pretend I've quoted that comment
What really shits me is that you have found out that I'm Albert
Brendan Hume
Charlie Fox (21)
I think this is a great opportunity to blood players in a squad environment. When you consider the players that won't be around next year, and the prospects/potential of some of the blokes who weren't selected, would it not be a great opportunity to get them in the same camp working their arses off? I think going into camp is a fantastic learning opportunity. I'm not sure how much it costs to add extra blokes in - I'm assuming they're already paid by their franchise/ARU top ups and it would only be a matter of stumping up for some kit, accommodation and food. That to me is a small price to pay to improve the experience of a player that might come into the squad next year.
- Status