Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Brumbieman]

If Foley is our 10, Lealiifano must be the 12. Foley is not creative enough to go with To'omua.

If Cooper starts, To'omua is the 12.

 

[Brumbieman]

Just been reading through that Number 8 by the numbers article, been waiting a while for it, so a HUGE thank you lads for putting that together.


Looking at those numbers (and ignore the offloading/passing bit, he's got really soft hands and an awesome offload, just hasn't been used this year because of our gameplan) you would think seals the deal.


Higgers starting 8 and plays there while Skelton is on. When Skelton runs out of gas @ 50mins, we bring Vaea on to continue to bring the rain.

McCalman has been good as well, but as he's out at the moment there shouldn't be any more debate about this.

Start with Higgers, finish with Vaea. As I said a few (dozen by now I think) pages back, i'd be starting Hooper and bringing Pocock off the bench to close out games, and that article just proves that Vaea is the man to come off the bench and go on a rampage for 30 mins with Pocock.


Case closed gentlemen.

 

[ACT Crusader]

For those that have seen a bit of T14 will know that Giteau has bulked up a bit. Plays a little more direct than when he left.

He may also be handy for some Intel on opposition players as well.

 

[CarnTheBrumbies]

Just been reading through that Number 8 by the numbers article, been waiting a while for it, so a HUGE thank you lads for putting that together.


Looking at those numbers (and ignore the offloading/passing bit, he's got really soft hands and an awesome offload, just hasn't been used this year because of our gameplan) you would think seals the deal.


Higgers starting 8 and plays there while Skelton is on. When Skelton runs out of gas @ 50mins, we bring Vaea on to continue to bring the rain.

McCalman has been good as well, but as he's out at the moment there shouldn't be any more debate about this.

Start with Higgers, finish with Vaea. As I said a few (dozen by now I think) pages back, i'd be starting Hooper and bringing Pocock off the bench to close out games, and that article just proves that Vaea is the man to come off the bench and go on a rampage for 30 mins with Pocock.


Case closed gentlemen.

Agree with nearly everything you say. Would definitely have Vaea on the bench over Palu as he has been one of the in form number 8's in the comp and Palu has dropped in form dramatically over the last 3 years.
However, I would start Pocock over Hooper, Pocock is the more complete Openside Flanker.

 

[Intruder]

Just been reading through that Number 8 by the numbers article, been waiting a while for it, so a HUGE thank you lads for putting that together.


Looking at those numbers (and ignore the offloading/passing bit, he's got really soft hands and an awesome offload, just hasn't been used this year because of our gameplan) you would think seals the deal.


Higgers starting 8 and plays there while Skelton is on. When Skelton runs out of gas @ 50mins, we bring Vaea on to continue to bring the rain.

McCalman has been good as well, but as he's out at the moment there shouldn't be any more debate about this.

Start with Higgers, finish with Vaea. As I said a few (dozen by now I think) pages back, i'd be starting Hooper and bringing Pocock off the bench to close out games, and that article just proves that Vaea is the man to come off the bench and go on a rampage for 30 mins with Pocock.


Case closed gentlemen.

I am certain that Palu will start at 8. No ifs or buts he is Chiekas first choice preference.

 

[CarnTheBrumbies]

I am certain that Palu will start at 8. No ifs or buts he is Chiekas first choice preference.

So you say Skelton will be on the bench. Or do you think Cheika will risk the limited set piece options to have both of them in the same pack?

 

[cyclopath]

Agree with nearly everything you say. Would definitely have Vaea on the bench over Palu as he has been one of the in form number 8's in the comp and Palu has dropped in form dramatically over the last 3 years.
However, I would start Pocock over Hooper, Pocock is the more complete Openside Flanker.

Actually, Palu has been better, at least at Super rugby level the past 2 years under better S&C control than previously. His form has not dropped off. By all means say you prefer Vaea, but you're kidding if you think Palu's work rate and effectiveness has got worse.
I would agree with starting Higginbotham though, at least in the first few RC Tests to see how it goes.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Probably a year too early for Vaea. I can't see there being any room for him in a World Cup squad.

 

[CarnTheBrumbies]

Actually, Palu has been better, at least at Super rugby level the past 2 years under better S&C control than previously. His form has not dropped off. By all means say you prefer Vaea, but you're kidding if you think Palu's work rate and effectiveness has got worse.
I would agree with starting Higginbotham though, at least in the first few RC Tests to see how it goes.

Okay, he may not have gotten worse but his impact is not as great as Vaea's. Palu. Palu has never really been top Wallabies quality. Yes he does have the occassional good game or impact. But his consistency of impact against the ABs or SA has never been good enough.

 

[Purce]

Don't go putting too much faith in the coach and his ability to make good decisions. I have a lot of respect for Link as a coach, but could never fathom why he played Beale at 10 against the ABs last year when he wasn't playing there for a Super side and had shown no form there for some time. Let's not talk about some of the hair-brained selections by Robbie Deans.

But as to this year's crop of locks, I don't expect to see Coleman in the starting 15 for a test, but I would like to see him in the squad in preference to James Horwill for example.

The inside word I received on that was Beale's selection came from the top. Link didn't want him there(at 10). Something to do with contract negotiations at the time.

 

[ACT Crusader]

The inside word I received on that was Beale's selection came from the top. Link didn't want him there(at 10). Something to do with contract negotiations at the time.

We often hear this sort of whispering, so who is the person or persons at the "top" pulling the strings and forcing a national coach to select a player in a run on side at a position he hadn't played at for some time?

 

[Brumbieman]

Probably a year too early for Vaea. I can't see there be any room for him in a World Cup squad.

Why?

He's wiped the floor with all the other options at 8 in every category except the lineout.

He has the highest workrate, AND the highest impact on the game.


Everyone else is a high workrate but low impact or vice versa option. He's not a starting 8 yet, but he's certainly the best option to be closing out games when the rest of our ball runners are tiring and we're in desperate need of someone to get us over the advantage line.


Think back to the last 18 months: how many games did we lose in the final 30 mins? Having shitty options coming off the bench has hamstrung us so many times in the past, why not do everything we can to turn that around?

Against England in a RWC, if we go with a high workrate-low impact forward pack we haven't got a chance. We'll go lots of phases sideways or backwards and then get monstered and turned over.

 

[Slim 293]

Palu has been dynamite for the Tahs the previous two seasons, but he hasn't had the same impact this year which the stats seem to reflect.............

Vaea, being a similar player to Palu, has certainly been far more impressive............. but there won't be room for all 4 of Palu, McCalman, Higgers and Vaea at the RWC.

On Super Rugby form you'd take the latter 3, but when you take in test experience it will likely be the former 3 that'll be there for the RWC.

 

[cyclopath]

Okay, he may not have gotten worse but his impact is not as great as Vaea's. Palu. Palu has never really been top Wallabies quality. Yes he does have the occassional good game or impact. But his consistency of impact against the ABs or SA has never been good enough.

I'm not sure the data supports Vaea having a "greater" impact as yet. In time, it may well, he has a lot of upside if he can get and stay fitter and on the park more - he's only young. As for Palu not being Wallaby quality, it seems not to be a sentiment that past and current Wallaby coaches and players share with you, given his selection and how the players judge him in player-voted awards.
But Palu is nearer the end, Vaea at the beginning. I think both have something to offer. I suspect we might see both with some time on the park, for one reason or another.

 

[barbarian]

He's wiped the floor with all the other options at 8 in every category except the lineout.

He has the highest workrate, AND the highest impact on the game.

Jesus some of the Brumbies guys here have worked themselves into such a lather about Ita Vaea, you'd think he was some super hybrid of Willie O and Totai Kefu, with Tim Gavin mixed in for good measure.

He didn't 'wipe the floor' in the stats. He was certainly one of the standouts, but it is worth noting he misses more tackles, he makes less offloads, and gives away more penalties than his counterparts.

He's a good player, sure. But I'd suggest there is still a chance he doesn't make the squad, and the very best he can hope for is a run off the bench before the RWC is chosen. As Slim points out he just has too many experienced guys ahead of him
.

 

[CarnTheBrumbies]

I'm not sure the data supports Vaea having a "greater" impact as yet. In time, it may well, he has a lot of upside if he can get and stay fitter and on the park more - he's only young. As for Palu not being Wallaby quality, it seems not to be a sentiment that past and current Wallaby coaches and players share with you, given his selection and how the players judge him in player-voted awards.
But Palu is nearer the end, Vaea at the beginning. I think both have something to offer. I suspect we might see both with some time on the park, for one reason or another.

It's all up to opinion. I don't think Cheika will go with Vaea for the RWC but with a successful 2016 Super Rugby he should overtake Palu for test matches.

 

[cyclopath]

It's all up to opinion. I don't think Cheika will go with Vaea for the RWC but with a successful 2016 Super Rugby he should overtake Palu for test matches.

Probably sums up this whole thread.

 

[Brumbieman]

Jesus some of the Brumbies guys here have worked themselves into such a lather about Ita Vaea, you'd think he was some super hybrid of Willie O and Totai Kefu, with Tim Gavin mixed in for good measure.

He didn't 'wipe the floor' in the stats. He was certainly one of the standouts, but it is worth noting he misses more tackles, he makes less offloads, and gives away more penalties than his counterparts.

He's a good player, sure. But I'd suggest there is still a chance he doesn't make the squad, and the very best he can hope for is a run off the bench before the RWC is chosen. As Slim points out he just has too many experienced guys ahead of him
.

Yeah, that sounds like him


He's not a starter yet, but after those numbers (which also don't include his maul defence) I don't see how you could NOT take him. I don't get the logic in taking 3 options who are clearly not as good?

 

[barbarian]

Because the side isn't selected on the basis of raw stats.

McCalman, Higgers and Palu all have years of experience under their belt and all played good test rugby in 2014. All proven, and all in decent 2015 form. Vaea just doesn't have enough upside to get in ahead of them.
.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Gits at 10 has the same issue as KB (Kurtley Beale) at 10 -- too lateral and cramping the space of those around him. Gits at 12 was fantastic (though he did have the luxury of Bernie and Morts either side of him for a lot of his career).