Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Yeah but except for unlocking that defence what has he done for us?
"..and the wine"
A Python clip for every argument.
Yeah but except for unlocking that defence what has he done for us?
WTF is the KPI/pre-requisite to be "world class". It appears to me to be an arbitrary moveable goal post set to "prove" an argument rather than a genuine critique of a player's strengths and weaknesses.
My biggest criticism of Foley was the inconsistency and limited kicking game he had, but that has largely been addressed, but improvements can always be made. He takes the ball to the line and is a genuine risk with ball in hand, is a reliable distributor (but far from the best passer of the ball) and the best defending 10 in Australia (To'omua is not a 10 IMO and even though a more dominant tackler he doesn't have the completion rate of Foley).
I do not understand the constant harping criticism of him. I support reasoned legitimate critique, but this seems more than a little baseless.
The biggest problem I see Foley having in 2016, 17 and beyond is the high risk decision to play in Japan and have no off-season. It has broken so many players in the past and is a massive risk.
Foley is great. I'm a big fan post RWC form. I agree with you on most of this post, except I doubt Foley is the best defending 10. His defence was average before the RWC. Post RWC he has silenced a few critics including myself.a lot of his defence is cover tackles. I'd easily rate Lilo above Foley, Lilo is also the primary organiser of the defensive line - something Foley is not, Gits did this during the RWC.
Also, after his wide-ball to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on his weak-side, I'd say he isn't far from being the best passer of the ball. Obviously not the best but damn good.
I base my statements about his defence on the numbers. Lilo hasn't played 10 at test level in what? 2 years? Or even a test in that time? So really the only comparisons I am making are with Beale, Giteau, To'omua and Cooper. The numbers from memory show that only Giteau has the completion rate to compare with To'omua not getting the game time of the others. To'omua's the most dominant tackler of the set but his completion rate is effected greatly by the misses attributed to him by his rushing up for that big hit. I'd also add that nobody else in the backline has worked as hard in cover as Foley. His cover defence on breakouts was reminiscent of Gregan IMO with many last gasp tackles.
I base my statements about his defence on the numbers. Lilo hasn't played 10 at test level in what? 2 years? Or even a test in that time? So really the only comparisons I am making are with Beale, Giteau, To'omua and Cooper. The numbers from memory show that only Giteau has the completion rate to compare with To'omua not getting the game time of the others. To'omua's the most dominant tackler of the set but his completion rate is effected greatly by the misses attributed to him by his rushing up for that big hit. I'd also add that nobody else in the backline has worked as hard in cover as Foley. His cover defence on breakouts was reminiscent of Gregan IMO with many last gasp tackles.
"..and the wine"
A Python clip for every argument.
As you note, To'omua really hasn't been given enough time in the game during the WC, but I'd invite you to have another look at his stats against Argentina (I think). Came on with less than 20 to go, and made either 6/7 or 7/7 tackles, most of them dominant. He is a better defender than Bernard Foley whetjher you look at completion rate or strength of one on one tackling.
Oh NO Sully - that was all Beale!
I mean, when has Foley even looked remotely like Larkham? LARKHAM was World Class. Did it all himself. Well him and that Gregan guy. oh and I see some old bloke called Horan played a bit at 12 during that period. And some other jokers called Herbert, Roff, Tune.
And does anyone remember if a "Matt Burke" was any good as a fullback? Says here he has nearly 900 Test points, but I find that hard to believe if Larkham was out there at the same time.
Larkham had to drag these losers kicking and screaming to a RWC title, so I guess Foley will just have to make do with being less than "world class".
Give me fucking strength.
Not aimed at you SoJ: but I would love it if they would define what they mean by this "world class" bullshit. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Its a fucking myth, is the problem. Mostly put forward by people whose own selection was proven to be not better, and often far worse.
Foley's kicking game: added 15 metres distance to his general field kicking compared to start of the year. Could be better, sure.
Foley's goal kicking: improved out of sight. Consistency is the key of course, but even "world class" players like Carter miss the odd one.
Foley's passing: short passing game currently has no peer in Australia in terms of execution and work under pressure at the line. Long passing game is not often examined because he does most of his work in traffic. If you'll turn your attention to the screens now:
So they can probably all ram that "world class" shit up to the third knuckle in their petulant arses. It might at least stop them speaking, or muffle it to a suitable level.
Even more reason to play him at 12, where he has excelled. Lilo would be my backup 10, with Jack D being the development player.
I think you hit the nail on the head for 2016.
10: Foley, backup: Lilo, Development: Jack D
12. To'omua, backup: Lilo, Development: Goodwin/Kerevi
13: Kuridrani, backup: Horne, Development: Goodwin/Kerevi
I could be wrong but I reckon Godwin's ship has sailed.
Agree with Kerevi but outside him a youngster like Jim Stewart or David Horwitz could be more in their sights.
Bit harsh to say his ship has sailed especially given how young he is although he does seem like he is on the decline but I couldn't think of any other youngster's with his skill or potential.
Plus I really do like the look of Kerevi at 12 and Goodwin at 13. There's something very Nonu/Conrad about that balance. Although obviously they have FAR to go and I'm admittedly being very very optimistic.
I'd classify Foley more as a runner than a ball player.Highly, highly unlikely in a team built around two playmakers at 10/12
As I have said before this is a young side, by the next RWC the back line ages will be:
Foley 30
Beale 30
To'omua 29
Lilo 28
Kuridrani 28
Folau 30
We will have a pretty damn talented, experienced core back line