The Wallabies Thread

[Tomikin]

Sure he works hard on the field, but he also generally plays around 50 minutes.

Are you really convinced that he looks fit enough for test rugby right now?

I'm in no way ruling him out, just emphasising the areas he will need to improve to become a test player.

I doubt Cheika will pick him on the basis that all he wants out of him is to be an impact sub and isn't expected to have the fitness to play more than 30 minutes at test level.

He picked Skelton who doesn't get through half as much as Ita.

I see your point by next season after a pre season he'll be fine. His never going to look like a model though, part of his impact is his size and shape.

Although only issue being if your going to carry a none jumping 8 you'd still probably play the Pooper.

A different slant on the backrow might be to drop Hooper for McMahon just because his a better line-up target.. But that's crazy talk..

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[Pfitzy]

If this is a recent photo, then he's got bigger love handles than Pfitzy!

 

[Braveheart81]

He picked Skelton who doesn't get through half as much as Ita.

I see your point by next season after a pre season he'll be fine. His never going to look like a model though, part of his impact is his size and shape.

Although only issue being if your going to carry a none jumping 8 you'd still probably play the Pooper.

A different slant on the backrow might be to drop Hooper for McMahon just because his a better line-up target.. But that's crazy talk..

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Skelton first got picked by McKenzie when he was definitely short of the requisite fitness. In 2015 that fitness increased markedly. The expected workrate from a number 8 is also substantially higher than that of a lock.

Vaea already has Pocock and McCalman at a minimum ahead of him. He's going to need to be fitter to challenge those players.

Taking umbrage at comments that Ita Vaea isn't fit enough at this point in time seems pretty strange. It's the most obvious comment that can be made about him if you're talking about areas he can improve on.

 

[Viking]

Vaea is a real prospect.
BUT - we haven't seen a lot at Super level recently with injuries, just NRC. And the other ongoing issue is our lineout at Test level. Just as it has been problematic, it would remain so with him at 8. They really need to find a balance in our combos to cover this. Not saying it can't be done.
But, yeah, his impact with ball in hand and his other skills would be really nice.
I reckon he'll come out of pre-season firing. Hope so.

Yes, to be fair on Vaea he was thrust into super xv last year too early, only just returning form injury and really didn't have the fitness to play yet but he thrived anyway, exceeded expectations and became a regular starter. His fitness and impact got better every game.

So I'd say he had half a good super xv season under his belt. Next year he will have NRC, a full preseason, and a full super xv season. If he continues to improve the way he is going he's got far too go.

Line-out will be an issue which makes me think it will actually be a fight against Hooper for a spot.

Sure he works hard on the field, but he also generally plays around 50 minutes.

Are you really convinced that he looks fit enough for test rugby right now?

I'm in no way ruling him out, just emphasising the areas he will need to improve to become a test player.

I doubt Cheika will pick him on the basis that all he wants out of him is to be an impact sub and isn't expected to have the fitness to play more than 30 minutes at test level.

Same boat as Palu in my opinion. He was never a 80min player but Cheika loved him. I'd bet Vaea's fitness by the end of the super xv season next year, if all goes well injury wise, will be as good if not better.

 

[cyclopath]

I'm not worried he can't get fit.
As with Palu and Skelton, who probably fulfilled slightly different roles, my biggest worry with Vaea, the Pooper, McMahon or anyone else who is not a jumping 8, is our lineout. It will seriously hamstring us at Test level going forwards. It was a massive point of difference for the ABs.

 

[wamberal]

It is passing strange that we all get excited about the importance of the scrum, but the lineout is, apparently, of little importance.

Both set pieces are equally important, in their own way.

It is hard to beat winning good, clean lineout ball from a long throw to tail-gunners.

 

[Gnostic]

I'm not worried he can't get fit.
As with Palu and Skelton, who probably fulfilled slightly different roles, my biggest worry with Vaea, the Pooper, McMahon or anyone else who is not a jumping 8, is our lineout. It will seriously hamstring us at Test level going forwards. It was a massive point of difference for the ABs.

I wonder at that really, even with Fardy, Douglas, McCalman and Simmons all on the field the L/O was under pressure and didn't pressure the opposition at any time in the tournament.

I agree that the options have to be maintained, but the effectiveness of what the Wallabies had cannot be judged from the RWC because even with what we would reasonably think were the best jumping options available the L/O still under performed. On current form less options would be an absolute disaster, but then if we could obtain the sort of efficiencies that sides like Japan did with what most would say are lesser resources it would give a lot more options.

 

[cyclopath]

I wonder at that really, even with Fardy, Douglas, McCalman and Simmons all on the field the L/O was under pressure and didn't pressure the opposition at any time in the tournament.

I agree that the options have to be maintained, but the effectiveness of what the Wallabies had cannot be judged from the RWC because even with what we would reasonably think were the best jumping options available the L/O still under performed. On current form less options would be an absolute disaster, but then if we could obtain the sort of efficiencies that sides like Japan did with what most would say are lesser resources it would give a lot more options.

It needs to be fixed. As it currently is, reducing options intuitively does not aid that process.
But is more than just numbers of tall blokes, I agree.

 

[Pfitzy]

Number of options will never trump execution. You can only lift so many blokes at one time.

Moore's throwing was issue number 1. Communication was issue number 2.

Its not cattle, its not coaching.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think one thing the Wallabies need is more of a willingness to revert to inferior attacking lineouts with a higher probability of retaining our own ball.

Our full lineout functions reasonably most of the time but then we face a really strong lineout team like the All Blacks and get smashed.

Shorter lineouts where we are more likely to win our own ball but provide less of an attacking platform should be in the arsenal to use at times when we're under pressure.

There were a couple of times in the final where we had reasonably good field position and then couldn't win our ball. Rather than a 6 or 7 man lineout with the backline set to attack on first phase, maybe we need to opt for a less attacking option just to make sure we get an opportunity with the ball from that field position.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Yep, no good hatching a fiendish attacking plan if you can win your own first phase pill.

 

[Slim 293]

If this is a recent photo, then he's got bigger love handles than Pfitzy!

Ha............

That photo would've been taken back in January/February before they got Aquis on board.

 

[Brumby Runner]

If this is a recent photo, then he's got bigger love handles than Pfitzy!

Well, given he's in a Brumbies jersey, there would no doubt be more recent pics of him in the Vikings outfit, but yeah, he does look to be carrying extra weight. Doesn't seem to affect his effectiveness on the ground, either ball in hand or in defense. His biggest weakness is, as Cyclopath pointed out, his lack of jumping capability in the lineout.

ABs again this year have shown the benefit of having four jumpers with Retallick, Whitelock, Kaino and Read all on the ground together. Unfortunately, the Wallabies can't do that if they persist with the Pooper, or pick Vaea or Skelton. Longer term, maybe Holloway will enable four jumpers on the ground together.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Just my opinion, but looking to 2016 and beyond, the Wallabies will not dominate other top nations (read ABs) if we persist with the likes of Mumm, McCalman and probably Simmons and Carter. None of them have sufficient impact to turn a game. We need more locks like Douglas (Neville and Coleman) and better back up at 8, like Vaea, Timani, Holloway or Cottrill. All players who will make their presence known and felt. And hopefully Skelton can improve all aspects of his game as well. Just his size, if he plays anywhere near it, is rather intimidating.

 

[Lee Enfield]

You can add Foley to the list of players who should not be persisted with if we wish to dominate other top nations.

 

[kiap]

Vaea already has Pocock and McCalman at a minimum ahead of him. He's going to need to be fitter to challenge those players.

This, of course, assumes Hooper plays 7.

Which is not necessarily nailed on.

 

[Brumby Runner]

You can add Foley to the list of players who should not be persisted with if we wish to dominate other top nations.

Totally agree, although he did surpass many of our expectations in the RWC. Here's hoping Jack Debrezcini continues to improve to a level earning him higher selection. He seems to have all the skills in abundance.

 

[I like to watch]

You can add Foley to the list of players who should not be persisted with if we wish to dominate other top nations.

We won every game Foley played in,this year except the RWC final.
Don't hold your breath waiting for him to be replaced.
Whatever his limitations,his style suits the coaches game plan.

 

[upthereds#!]

Just my opinion, but looking to 2016 and beyond, the Wallabies will not dominate other top nations (read ABs) if we persist with the likes of Mumm, McCalman and probably Simmons and Carter. None of them have sufficient impact to turn a game. We need more locks like Douglas (Neville and Coleman) and better back up at 8, like Vaea, Timani, Holloway or Cottrill. All players who will make their presence known and felt. And hopefully Skelton can improve all aspects of his game as well. Just his size, if he plays anywhere near it, is rather intimidating.

Right idea, need guys with a point of difference - cant have to many 'workhorses', need some impact..

There's a reason Mccalman was often out of favour in the WBS after having a good Super Rugby comp, when partnered with fardy and hooper, there was just too little impact.

Aussie needs some explosive big humans to make a dent.

Pocock played a strong game as a sterotypical 7, with his breakdown work, but really, our forwards were man handled by Kaino Read and Rettalick. Losing Douglas hurt because Simmons, Mumm and Fardy just don't 'own the space' by out 'physicallying' the opposition.

 

[Pfitzy]

People are still bashing Foley as not being good enough, despite winning every game he started bar 1 this year, out-kicking Carter in the final, and scoring the same number of points as Carter through the tournament.