Waratahs 2016

[Slim 293]

Let's be honest the NRC is an absolute joke and the U20's state pathway in it's current format is a great way for someone to justify his position in the HPU. If those blokes aren't better playing senior footy in there clubs and being better prepared for the U20's WC that will do me. Instead some of the top players play against some Sydney 3rd graders(NSW is generally one of the stronger states as well so I would hate to see what the other players weaker players are like).

 

[I like to watch]

The premise that these players wouldn't be playing any rugby if it wasn't for the Shute Shield is farcical.

I thought half those posts were satirical.

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I don't think anyone has suggested that.
My understanding is that many are proposing that the SS is a better development option than the various koala clubs.
I see backs who have spent years in elite squads who still cannot draw & pass.
I see a young guy who's been playing SS since he left School,who is having his worst year after his first off season in a pro program.
Undoubtedly,these elite squads improve breakdown skills & size.
But I'm sceptical about any other value add.
The best players rise to the top,regardless of their pathway.

 

[AussieDominance]

I personally have no problem with some of these programs that are run to keep talent or attract talent but if playing an underage tournament other than some preparation time for the Aus 20's is benefical for anyone that age that will do me playing against hardened men is of significant importance to development.

The thing those programs do well I believe is prepare players physically as mentioned above although it does absolutely nothing to make them battle hardened.

 

[Quick Hands]

Is someone going to claim Henry Hutchinson that is a product of Shute Shield, & the Randwick club? After all he must have played at least four games in the Myrtle green last year.

What would he (& Kellaway) have learned in the 3 years that he/they were in the NGS programme, or the various Gordon age group rep sides, or in their time in AAGPS, NSW & Aust U16 & Open Schoolboy teams?

You're not arguing like with like. HH spent much of his junior time in Melbourne before returning to Sydney. Did play juniors for a very good Gordon side as well for a few years and has played some time for Randwick. I'm sure he'd tell you though that his time at Randwick gave him valuable experience at a higher level. Kellaway has played village juniors and reps all the way through, but he has also benefited from his time at Randwick. So in answer to you question - yes, to varying degrees are they products of the Sydney clubsystem.

Are you suggesting that boys just turn up a t school in Year 7 and begin their rugby there? From 6-12 all the development is done by junior village clubs on the smell of an oily rag - these junior clubs get support in many ways from their SS district club. Some do more than others, but still the structure and support is there.

SS goes much deeper than what happens in first grade - altahough that is still an important step.

Wonder how HH and Kellaway would have gone if there was no SS and they went and played subbies for Colleagues or Hunters Hill et al? SS looks pretty good when one considers the options. (Noting that very few subbies clubs have a juniors section at all)

 

[Quick Hands]

Like moths to a lamp out came the Shute Shield haters.

Bet they wish that there was something stronger than "like" for post 1736.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yet despite the lack of this there manages to be junior competitions outside of 12 districts in Sydney that produce players without the benefit of the large playing base and the strong GPS schools competition associated with it.

Which is why I think without Shute Shield, these Village Clubs would probably still exist (Because many do almost in spite of it in some regions), and these players would still grow up playing there.

Pfitzy you hit the nail on the head in post #1740.

"Go look at the Clubbies playing in the NRC against the pros: they're all out of puff 10-15 minutes from the end, while the Soup players are still gunning it.

Holloway and co show they're a cut above in the NRC not because club rugby made them so, but because, as full time pros, they can train like pros, and with pros."

 

[TOCC]

Let's be honest the NRC is an absolute joke and the U20's state pathway in it's current format is a great way for someone to justify his position in the HPU. If those blokes aren't better playing senior footy in there clubs and being better prepared for the U20's WC that will do me. Instead some of the top players play against some Sydney 3rd graders(NSW is generally one of the stronger states as well so I would hate to see what the other players weaker players are like).

Phil Waugh said:
"As a developing player, the U20s is perhaps the final stepping stone in the apprenticeship of becoming a professional rugby player, whether that be in Super Rugby or Sevens"

12 years at the Tahs, 124 Super Rugby Caps and over 70 Test caps, captained the Waratahs for a number of years and all whilst studying for 2 masters degrees ... I'd say he offers a qualified and credible perspective...

 

[RugbyReg]

Take it away and you will see how far players go.

who is saying take it away?

 

[AussieDominance]

who is saying take it away?

No one really but if the ARU don't get there act together and support these clubs I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of revolt against them.

 

[AussieDominance]

Phil Waugh said:
"As a developing player, the U20s is perhaps the final stepping stone in the apprenticeship of becoming a professional rugby player, whether that be in Super Rugby or Sevens"

12 years at the Tahs, 124 Super Rugby Caps and over 70 Test caps, captained the Waratahs for a number of years and all whilst studying for 2 masters degrees . I'd say he offers a qualified and credible perspective.

Thanks I am sure Brett Papworth and Bob Dwyer offer pretty well qualified and credible perspectives as well.

 

[AussieDominance]

Yet despite the lack of this there manages to be junior competitions outside of 12 districts in Sydney that produce players without the benefit of the large playing base and the strong GPS schools competition associated with it.

Which is why I think without Shute Shield, these Village Clubs would probably still exist (Because many do almost in spite of it in some regions), and these players would still grow up playing there.

Pfitzy you hit the nail on the head in post #1740.

"Go look at the Clubbies playing in the NRC against the pros: they're all out of puff 10-15 minutes from the end, while the Soup players are still gunning it.

Holloway and co show they're a cut above in the NRC not because club rugby made them so, but because, as full time pros, they can train like pros, and with pros."

I have debated this fact with you before and it's like hitting someone in the head with a hammer but of course a bloke on the professional contract should outlast a Shute Shield player he's been on a contract for at least the last season do you really think he should be the same fitness level as uncontracted players in fact it's probably a good thing if someone who is not on a contract but vying for a contract is not as strong/fit as others as it provides an upshot that if they had some professional development they would become a lot better player.

Of course there would be junior rugby. Rugby would not survive in Sydney if the Shute Shield clubs just went on strike though.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Of course Bob and Brett with a heavy interest in one side of the argument are making their comment free from any bias aren't they?

I'd say somebody involved in all the systems, and Shute Shield, with no interest either side is probably the most likely to make an objective assessment.

As for rugby not surviving in Sydney without Shute Shield clubs. You do realize of the approximately 10,000 registered senior players in Sydney, only around a quarter are with Shute Shield Clubs, right?

 

[Braveheart81]

No one really but if the ARU don't get there act together and support these clubs I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of revolt against them.

Of course there would be junior rugby. Rugby would not survive in Sydney if the Shute Shield clubs just went on strike though.

What revolt? What strike?

Are you suggesting the Shute Shield clubs would decide to shut up shop purely to spite the ARU?

Do you think the players would just stop playing or would they just move to another club?

The players at the pointy end of the Shute Shield are doing their utmost to get themselves a professional contract so they can become full time professionals.

They will play wherever they see that opportunity as being the greatest. If the Shute Shield clubs decided to suddenly stop playing they would move to another team.

Ultimately the players are the ones that hold the power at pretty much all levels of the game.

 

[fatprop]

No one really but if the ARU don't get there act together and support these clubs I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of revolt against them.

and do what?

 

[TOCC]

Thanks I am sure Brett Papworth and Bob Dwyer offer pretty well qualified and credible perspectives as well.

Sure, and what are their vested interests?
Waugh at least offers a third party perspective, take that as you will...

 

[barbarian]

Are we going to have this argument every time a bloke who has at some point pulled on an SS jersey does something good/bad?

OH MY GOD DAVID HORWITZ JUST SCORED TWO TRIES THE SHUTE SHIELD IS AMAZING AND SHOULD GET MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

AHHH JACK DEMPSEY JUST DROPPED THE BALL THE SHUTE SHIELD IS TERRIBLE AND EVERY PLAYER AND ADMINISTRATOR SHOULD BE BANNED FOR LIFE.

And then we have another five pages of back and forth by the same people arguing the same points and reaching the same conclusions.

Don't get me wrong, internet forums are built on this stuff, but can't we just skip to the end of this story and agree to disagree and all go on our way?
.

 

[Braveheart81]

Hodge another product of Manly juniors 6-17s. Shute Shield haters take note.

Lucky we have the Shute Shield otherwise we would not have had a player like Reece Hodge come through!

For the record these two posts were my favourite amongst the whole thing and if they had been written by other people I would have totally assumed them to be satirical.

Amazing.

 

[Sauron]

For the record, I was being very sarcastic.

 

[AussieDominance]

Of course Bob and Brett with a heavy interest in one side of the argument are making their comment free from any bias aren't they?

I'd say somebody involved in all the systems, and Shute Shield, with no interest either side is probably the most likely to make an objective assessment.

As for rugby not surviving in Sydney without Shute Shield clubs. You do realize of the approximately 10,000 registered senior players in Sydney, only around a quarter are with Shute Shield Clubs, right?

Stupid argument Phil Waugh has been asked to write an article on U20's rugby what else is he going to say it's a waste of time and shouldn't exist?

I do not sure what your trying to imply but if you expected them to take over the Shute Shield I suggest they would simply not have the resources that most of the Shute Shield clubs have.

 

[AussieDominance]

Sure, and what are their vested interests?
Waugh at least offers a third party perspective, take that as you will.

Copy and paste -

Stupid argument Phil Waugh has been asked to write an article on U20's rugby what else is he going to say it's a waste of time and shouldn't exist?