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Wallabies vs England, Sydney, 3rd Test, 25 June @ 8:00pm

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Joe Blow

Peter Sullivan (51)
But we did unlock the England defense in the first Test. The second was an absolute fail - but in the second Kerevi was the standout.

I agree he most likely would not have been picked if it wasn't for injury but he was picked - and he did very well - better than I expected.

The double play-maker strategy was implemented because we simply did not have any other 12's who could crash-ball and distribute at the same time.

I guess my argument is, I am annoyed we are going back to the double play-maker system when we now have a 12 prospect that can play a different structure. A structure similar to the successful All Blacks backline.

Hey, I am a fan of Kerevi(just look at my avatar) and was very excited to see the KK play. Unfortunately it has not netted results in this series. I am sure we will see it again, particularly at back end of games in the future. I am also a big fan of Kurindrani and of To'omua.
We will see what happens on the weekend. We needed to change something.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
The ABs had Smith at 13 as the second playmaker with Nonu, now they have Crotty as the second playmaker


True fat prop. So we just need a 10 who can do most of the playmaking and a 13 who can share some of the load.

10. Cooper
12. Kerevi
13. Hunt/Godwin

Hypothetical of coarse. But I like that balance.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
To be fair, Kerevi doesn't balance out the backline with BOTH Foley and Kuridrani. So it's both their faults ;)

I never mentioned Horne.


... and I didn't quote you. Horne has been mentioned elsewhere.

Horne hasn't done a lot in attack so far but his defence has been rock solid.

Meanwhile DHP's 2 from 7 tackles in the two tests gets glossed over.

I expect Tomane will come back into the reckoning when healthy but I expect Horne will get picked in every test and it isn't just about because they want him to defend in the midfield.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
The only surprise for me is the second row.........

3 different lock combinations in 3 matches is not a good look.........

The backline is as expected.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
... and I didn't quote you. Horne has been mentioned elsewhere.

Horne hasn't done a lot in attack so far but his defence has been rock solid.

Meanwhile DHP's 2 from 7 tackles in the two tests gets glossed over.

I expect Tomane will come back into the reckoning when healthy but I expect Horne will get picked in every test and it isn't just about because they want him to defend in the midfield.


Same with DHP's work under the high ball. Missed 2 high balls, let one bounce. Not sure why people are still saying he is solid under the high ball.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
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Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
But necessary given performance. IMO.



Well, the lineout functioned better than it has for a couple of years without Simmons last week...........

Hopefully Skelton will provide something around the ground, without jeopardising the set piece.
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
I love that it's both Foley's fault that Kerevi has been dropped and that Horne has been picked.

And just how is it not Foley's defensive problems at 10 that underline the need for Horne at 11? Horne hasn't got the turn of speed required of a winger, witness his ineffective race with Farrell for the ball that provided the last try for England in Melbourne. He is there, as I'm sure you've said yourself at times, to defend in the 10 channel.

Kerevi was dropped apparently because Cheika decided to go with two playmakers. That in itself is an indictment that the one playmaker we had doesn't have all the skills needed to counteract the England defensive pattern.

I would go with a backline of Phipps (ugh), Lealiifano, Naiyaravoro (or Nabuli), Kerevi, Kuridrani, DHP, Folau. Other than to say that Cheika sees it differently, I'd like to hear why that wouldn't work perhaps better than the backline we have. A bit more variety available at the 10 spot, and an out and out winger (even if a bit green atm) to inject some pace, and consolidation of what could well be the most attacking centre pairing the Wallabies have had since the days of Snork.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
We would have gone with two playmakers regardless of who was playing 10 if the preferred options had been fit to start the series.

I'd be surprised if Horne was slower than DHP or Nabuli.

Horne had to turn to chase Farrell over a short distance. Farrell isn't slow. It doesn't matter who the winger is there they aren't going to win that race.

Anyway, keep hating on the players selected and assume that everything would be better if we picked Leali'ifano who is yet to show any good form in either test in my opinion.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
I find the criticism of the midfield selection a little strange given that when Cheika took over the preferred midfield was 12. To'omua 13. Kurindrani. They played pretty well for him as well.

Now due to injuries, RWC and bringing back experience under new rules - To'omua has not been the 12 option. But now that he's fit and the guy that replaced him at the RWC is not there, it would make logical sense that he's back in the side.

I think it's a much more balanced combination.

To answer an earlier question about Kerevi being in the squad if Beale, etc were all available, well I think he may have made it because he's an option at 13. One of the wingers and/or Hunt may not have been in there.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Well, the lineout functioned better than it has for a couple of years without Simmons last week.....

Hopefully Skelton will provide something around the ground, without jeopardising the set piece.


Yes I thought Carter would have got the nod over Simmons. but both lack impact so that's fair enough.

Yes we only have 2 specialist jumpers in Simmon and Fardy. I expect our line-out to go to shit.

Crazy to start Skelton, I hope he scrum well enough too.

Let's hope he is destructive around the park.
 

emuarse

Desmond Connor (43)
Inviting the wrath of Pfitzy, the last word in player selections so long as they are all Tahs, but I really do think Cheika has gone backwards with this team selection.

The locks will be a problem. Starting Skelton with a backrow including Hooper and McMahon leaves the Wallabies with two lineout operators only. That will be an issue at some time(s) during the game. Rob Simmons must be filling the England players with extreme fear. If he's true to form, he will give up a penalty or two at the lineout and also probably in general play for his lazy, ineffectual flopping over the ruck and generally getting in the way of the England play. And for those who say he's reformed, remember that he played about 20 minutes only in the first test and gave away one of his typical penalties in a lineout. On top of that, he is a powder puff in defense.

The solution, imo, would have been to bring Horwill in to partner Carter who had a much stronger game in the second test than Simmons has put in for many a year.

The backrow stays the same regardless of how they were beaten in the second test. Sean McMahon doesn't have the presence needed of a test No 8. And if Hooper and Fardy play extensively on the wings as they have in the first two tests, then our ability to win the breakdown or to stop the England forwards in the middle of the field will again be compromised. Either of Palu (for the first half) or Houston should start with the other on the bench.

Now, here's the outrage;). Retaining Foley at 10 means we have to break up the most promising centre pairing we've had for a long time. To drop Kerevi altogether is unfathomable. He was one of the few shining lights in the first two tests and really should be persevered with. And, it also means we have to keep Rob Horne at 11 to defend in the 10 channel. All this compromise just to stick with a player who has amply demonstrated he can't control a game against a rush defense, and actually just doesn't have the arsenal to combat the England game. He may (may) be the best running option at 10, but he will get next to no opportunities to play that game against the England side playing as they did in the first two tests. As much as I'd like to see To'omua start at 10, that would leave us bereft of a goal kicker (although not much worse off than in the earlier tests - Foley's goal kicking was below par, and the Captains both demonstrated a disinclination to take penalty goals in any case), so it would mean that Lealiifano should come in at 10. For all the naysayers, Christian really does have a better passing and kicking game than Foley, and those look to be the crucial elements missing from the Wallabies' game plan atm.

I think, in summary, based on the way both sides played in the first two tests, that our set piece will deteriorate with Skelton in the starting side, our defense in the middle of the park will be deficient with Fardy and Hooper both playing outside the wingers, our breakdown work will be dominated by England, our halves pairing will again be less than club standard and we won't have any real strategy or options to break the England defense. It will need a significant change up in the game plan for the Wallabies to prevail.

Actually, BR, I can see the wisdom of Lealiifano at 10. But what I'd have done is try Foley at 12. He is deceptive in his play making, and can make line breaks. The pairing would have had the soap dodgers scratching their scrotums.
 
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