Tier 3.5 - An Alternative NRC

[Train Without a Station]

In 2015 no.

But it basically funded the player pool which is important. So the money was necessary for that.

In 2016 from my understanding it will make money, and each franchise will have a 7 figure grant increase also.

It appears that from the $25M TV deal increase that $9M will flow to the franchises.

This may change pending the major sponsor situation.

 

[NTT]

Deleted my post as I think it was a bit misunderstood. Probably the result of me indulging myself with the absurdity of it.

I'll try to more appropriately express my thoughts later.

Your post made the point exactly, please put it back up.

Australian rugby as a whole is progressing like never before. We have finally established a respectable national pathways program to allow players from all across the country to live their dreams of representing the Wallabies or make a very comfortable living playing around the world. Like any investment or restructure, we need to give them time to prosper.
I agree with more grassroots funding, absolutely. If Mr Pulver is correct and the real figure is $9.2 million not $2.4 million that their report shows then that is fantastic. I will alwasys advocate for anything that progresses the national interest of our game.
What i will not agree with is the implications put forward by this myopic proposal put forward by those interested in only pushing their own cause.
How can the claim that the volunteers of Sydney and Brisbane clubs are more important than the volunteers of clubs in Perth, Melbourne, Adelaide, Darwin and Hobart?
Why is it more important to fund the match payments of guys running round in Sydney and Brisbane 2nd and 3rd grade than it is to fund junior rugby in Perth, Melbourne, Adelaide, Darwin and Tasmania?
Why is it more important to pay for the Shute Shield to be broadcast on FTA than to be paid $285 million to broadcast and export our professional players to the world?
Why is it more important to regress to what worked in the 80s than the progression made over the last 30yrs to now be in a position to challenge for a bigger payday when the next broadcast deal comes around?

Its like any major business. What was once started as a small backyard operation is now a major operation. The business now needs bigger factories to operate to continue the pursuit of greater revenue. Its not a backyard operation any more. The lemonade stand on the corner will never out sell Coca Cola.

 

[half]

^^^^^^^^^

I agree it was a very good post. Was not a rant IMO but clearly demonstrated your and many other views.

The last thing we need is to stop talking, communication is the key.

Believe it or not despite my often complaints pertaining to our structures I have often Posted Pulver is IMO the best CEO we have had in a while and much of what he does is good.

This does not change my overall stance on some issues, but we need all points of view to arrive at were we need to be.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Some Sydney and Brisbane Clubs Plan To Take on The NRC.
http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-unio...ional-rugby-championship-20161020-gs70cw.html

Simon Poidevin tells ARU to take former players' letter seriously or risk 'tears'
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-seriously-or-risk-tears-20161019-gs5wp1.html

NF-J indicates 'a revolt' could be on the cards:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-19/nick-farr-jones-warns-of-revolt-in-club-rugby-union/7947490

This could be big and rather polarising. Discussion has already sprung up across several threads.

Let's try and keep the dialogue contained in one thread, and within forum rules, particularly these two:

Rules of the forum
<snip>

6. Play the ball not the man. Personal comments will be deleted and you'll get a card or ban.
This also applies to comments about players, coaches, Referees and other public figures. Feel free to criticise their play and decisions with reasoning, but not slander them as a person.
"Like last weekend, he's always seagulling and it gives me the shits" is OK.
"He's a f*ckwit who'll never amount to anything" is not.
Only a complete knob jockey resorts to personal insults anyway.

<snip>

10. If another poster does not understand or agree with your point after 3 or 4 attempts, LET IT GO, WALK AWAY. It is very boring for other posters when the thread gets hijacked by two people having an argument. Let this be your guide:

 

[Quick Hands]

This is going to be key through this mess.

I have asked in the past why it was that no-one from the SS fraternity was standing up publically telling Papworth to pull his head in. Spilt milk perhaps.

There are SS clubs, a majority of them(?), who are the most impacted by this action. I feel somewhat cautious, may wait for bona fides through formal public expression. But they will gain support (that has not been arrogated by the break away).

The rest of us are just getting on with running our own clubs. I'm not sure that it's anyone else's job to tell him what ideas he can and can't express. They may do in private, but it's not something that I'd like aired in public.

I don't think it does anyone any good trying to pit one part of the game against another part. It's why I always correct people when they try to lump everyone involved in SS clubs into one basket and then play an us versus them SS v the rest game. I'd certainly be against any breakaway competition - which I don't believe will ever get off the ground anyway.

I'd simply say that the majority of rugby people like super rugby (with all it's imperfections), the majority of rugby people support the NRC (which I think has been an overwhelming success) and this is regardless what club that they are involved with (premier, subbies or junior).

I've always thought that the best way to get people to pull their heads in is to provide logical evidence to show they are wrong or to simply ignore them and let them slide into irrelevance.

 

[Quick Hands]

QH fair points but surely it's in the interest of clubs like Manly to say something like

"Yes we think we could improve the game in our area with more funds and it's necessary. But don't lump us with those loonies. We are quite happy with being involved in the NRC and plan to continue that and hope all our club supporters come out to support the Rays in the future"

We do say that regularly. (And you'll note that pretty much all Manly and Warringah supporters on these threads say the same)

The Papworth stuff doesn't rate a mention in this area - people would only know of his thoughts this time because it made a national newspaper.

We'll just ignore the nutters and not waste precious time and energy getting into public squabbles about things ( a breakway club competition) which won't ever happen.

 

[RugbyReg]

Let's make this productive.

Top Four NSW Teams in 2016:

• Sydney Uni
• Southern Districts
• Northern Suburbs
• Randwick

Top Four QLD Teams in 2016:

• University of QLD
• Souths
• Brothers
• Sunnybank

Costs involved?
- Ground Hire (most relevant for UQ who pay an access fee per day/hour)
- Referees
- Player payments?
- production costs (ala Schute Shield)
- Event costs (medical etc)
- Others
Revenue:
- TV (no chance you'd think)
- Sponsorship (unlikely, perhaps some offset)
- ticket sales? QLD clubs don't charge so it would be a massive risk to start now.
- F&B
Logistical issues:
- access to grounds. Is cricket access a consideration?
- no access to contracted players
- If ticketed, making grounds suitable (a factor at UQ at least, probably Souths too. Perhaps Sunnybank)
etc etc. I've got to dash now, but let's keep this productive.

 

[Highlander35]

Which clubs have actually committed to this comp?

Corporation, Past Glories, Wicks' Butt Buddy and Pappy's boys?

 

[liquor box]

I think the Rugby community needs to stick together and work on a solution, not a new decisive competition that goes against another current competition.

I think the S15 teams need to demand that all players who want to play for them play in the NRC or they dont get picked.

 

[Quick Hands]

Let's make this productive.

Top Four NSW Teams in 2016:

• Sydney Uni
• Southern Districts
• Northern Suburbs
• Randwick

Top Four QLD Teams in 2016:

• University of QLD
• Souths
• Brothers
• Sunnybank

Costs involved?

- Ground Hire (most relevant for UQ who pay an access fee per day/hour)
- Referees
- Player payments?
- production costs (ala Schute Shield)
- Event costs (medical etc)
- Others
Revenue:
- TV (no chance you'd think)
- Sponsorship (unlikely, perhaps some offset)
- ticket sales? QLD clubs don't charge so it would be a massive risk to start now.
- F&B
Logistical issues:
- access to grounds. Is cricket access a consideration?
- no access to contracted players
- If ticketed, making grounds suitable (a factor at UQ at least, probably Souths too. Perhaps Sunnybank)
etc etc. I've got to dash now, but let's keep this productive.

But let's also not forget the the ARU runs rugby in this country. Any competition which is played outside the ARU system isn't legally rugby - it's just a game resembling rugby and it's participants would also presumably be outside of any ARU run contracts, the ARU insurance scheme etc.

And I'd be almost 100% certain that Southern Districts wouldn't want anything to do with it and I strongly doubt that Northern Suburbs would either.

I don't think this thing will get past pub talk - but if it did, you'd be talking about the coalition of the unwilling and Eastwood.

 

[The torpedo]

That's a pretty savage sledge on a large group of people,all of whom have impressive achievements in the game.
please,tell me what they say,that warrants scorn from a nobody?

Well we did win the RWC a few years later

 

[Gnostic]

Let's make this productive.



Top Four NSW Teams in 2016:

• Sydney Uni
• Southern Districts
• Northern Suburbs
• Randwick

Top Four QLD Teams in 2016:

• University of QLD
• Souths
• Brothers
• Sunnybank

Costs involved?


- Ground Hire (most relevant for UQ who pay an access fee per day/hour)

- Referees

- Player payments?

- production costs (ala Schute Shield)

- Event costs (medical etc)

- Others

Revenue:

- TV (no chance you'd think)

- Sponsorship (unlikely, perhaps some offset)

- ticket sales? QLD clubs don't charge so it would be a massive risk to start now.

- F&B

Logistical issues:

- access to grounds. Is cricket access a consideration?

- no access to contracted players

- If ticketed, making grounds suitable (a factor at UQ at least, probably Souths too. Perhaps Sunnybank)

etc etc. I've got to dash now, but let's keep this productive.

As you mentioned previously the biggest issues are access to insurance which is a pre-requisite for access to anything further, which requires the sanction of the sporting body.

As such sanction will never happen any such competition must take place under a separate organisation. Will the ARU/State RUs allow the top four clubs to play the Shute/Hospitals Cup and then separate and play under a different body or do we go the full 1908 and expel them?

I doubt those that have brought this up have not considered these points and made some sort of plan. That sort of means that this has been in the planning for some time. The alternative is that they have been under the tutelage of Malcom Turnbull and this a thought bubble being market tested before introduction.

 

[Sully]

What Quick Hands said. Plus, if you're playing in a comp not sanctioned by the ARU how can you get contracted to a Super Rugy team?

 

[Gnostic]

Your post made the point exactly, please put it back up.



Australian rugby as a whole is progressing like never before. We have finally established a respectable national pathways program to allow players from all across the country to live their dreams of representing the Wallabies or make a very comfortable living playing around the world. Like any investment or restructure, we need to give them time to prosper.

I agree with more grassroots funding, absolutely. If Mr Pulver is correct and the real figure is $9.2 million not $2.4 million that their report shows then that is fantastic. I will alwasys advocate for anything that progresses the national interest of our game.

What i will not agree with is the implications put forward by this myopic proposal put forward by those interested in only pushing their own cause.

How can the claim that the volunteers of Sydney and Brisbane clubs are more important than the volunteers of clubs in Perth, Melbourne, Adelaide, Darwin and Hobart?

Why is it more important to fund the match payments of guys running round in Sydney and Brisbane 2nd and 3rd grade than it is to fund junior rugby in Perth, Melbourne, Adelaide, Darwin and Tasmania?

Why is it more important to pay for the Shute Shield to be broadcast on FTA than to be paid $285 million to broadcast and export our professional players to the world?

Why is it more important to regress to what worked in the 80s than the progression made over the last 30yrs to now be in a position to challenge for a bigger payday when the next broadcast deal comes around?



Its like any major business. What was once started as a small backyard operation is now a major operation. The business now needs bigger factories to operate to continue the pursuit of greater revenue. Its not a backyard operation any more. The lemonade stand on the corner will never out sell Coca Cola.

Really. Show me the increase in crowds and the profitable clubs/super provinces/ARU.

In its current structure at best the ARU is the lemonade stand. It is selling a product that has a small static local following. No growth so they have followed the Fosters beer formula and have decided to export it and convince the rest of the world that this is the beer that 'Australians' drink regardless of the fact that few Australians would touch the stuff. In reality I think the system is a Ponzi scheme with no base relying on future contributions to pay this years bills.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Australian Club Championship has existed for a while.

Probably right and proper that it was just played between the Sydney and Brisbane Premiers for much of it's history, but
perhaps if they want to make it truly Australian, a seeded knockout format should be adopted whereby the Premiers from any sanctioned competition could apply to enter.

Also how about Tas, NT, and SA Premiers along with an Lloyd McDermott XV may play each other in a Div II Knockout Comp. Seems to work OK for the Schoolboys. Maybe Qld Country and NSW Country could run a knockout to select their "Premiers" to enter the knockout for the Australian Club Championship. Could be all done and dusted over a week.

“AUSTRALIAN CLUB CHAMPIONSHIP”
(Sydney versus Queensland Premiers)

1908 - Glebe def Brothers, 9-0
1909 - Newtown def Valley, 16-10, Exhibition Ground

1974 - Brothers def Randwick, 19-7, Ballymore

1982 - Randwick def Brothers, 22-13, Ballymore
1983 - Randwick def Brothers, 32-29, Coogee Oval
1984 - Brothers def Manly, 24-15, Crosby Park
1985 - Brothers def Randwick, 10-6, Coogee Oval
1986 - Western Districts def Parramatta, 22-12, Ballymore
1987 - Southern Districts (Q) def Parramatta, 13-10, TG Millner Field
1988 - Randwick def tBrothers, 27-9, Crosby Park
1989 - Randwick def University of Qld, 30-15, Coogee Oval
1990 - University of Qld def Randwick, 29-22, Ballymore
1991 - Randwick def Southern Districts, 35-12, Concord Oval

1997 - Randwick def GPS Old Boys, 18-6, Coffs Harbour

2007 - Sydney University def West Brisbane, 36-5, Lang Park
2008 - Sydney University def Sunnybank, 24-0, Lang Park
2009 - Easts Rugby (Q) def Sydney University, 38-31, Syd Olympic Park
2010 - Brothers def Sydney University, 36-26, Crosby Park
2011 - University of Qld def Sydney University, 42-26, Ballymore
2012 - not contested – (Eastwood v Sunnybank)
2013 - Sydney University def University of Qld, 43-7, Syd Football Stadium
2014 - Sydney University def Easts Rugby (Q), 19-14, Bottomley Park
2015 - Eastwood def University of Qld, 21-20, TG Millner Field
2016 – (Eastwood v Souths)Eastwood def Souths 34-17, Chipsy Wood Oval

 

[Gnostic]

What Quick Hands said. Plus, if you're playing in a comp not sanctioned by the ARU how can you get contracted to a Super Rugy team?

Arrrr...... Koribete. Tiquiri, Sailor, Hunt.................

 

[Train Without a Station]

QH, I'm not specifically talking about us people here.

Papworth says he speaks for the clubs.

I completely believe your comments and there's no reason not to the way Manly and Co have embraced things going forward.

But surely if the club as an organisation doesn't want to be lumped in with this, somebody representing Manly (and any others) should be saying, "Hey. He doesn't speak for us".

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

QH, I'm not specifically talking about us people here.

Papworth says he speaks for the clubs.

I completely believe your comments and there's no reason not to the way Manly and Co have embraced things going forward.

But surely if the club as an organisation doesn't want to be lumped in with this, somebody representing Manly (and any others) should be saying, "Hey. He doesn't speak for us".

That's actually something I'd like to see. Everyone seems to agree on the four likely protagonists are in terms of clubs. If so, I'd like the other 8 if not involved to publicly state their position.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I'm not sure that West Harbour have thrown their hat in the ring with Papworth based on @Jack Belly Sparrow's earlier post.

There certainly appears to be some discontent out there, but I am yet to be convinced that all clubs in both Brisbane and Sydney are in favour of establishing an alternate NRC based around the Top 4 Clubs from Brisbane and Sydney.

 

[amirite]

Are the Qld teams even keen on this? Those guys seem reasonably happy with their NRC compared to the particularly PO'ed NSW Clubs (of which Eastwood is the key example).