Tier 3.5 - An Alternative NRC

[The torpedo]

In reality I think the system is a Ponzi scheme with no base relying on future contributions to pay this years bills.

So you reckon there is corruption in the ARU?

 

[The torpedo]

Here's an idea - why don't Pappy and co. try and negotiate to an agreement with the ARU instead of chucking a tantrum and threatening to leave?

 

[Gnostic]

So you reckon there is corruption in the ARU?

You know what the structure of a Ponzi scheme is and how that analogy would apply to this system? You know future contributions from media deals not realised being used to pay liabilities being incurred today?

 

[The torpedo]

You know what the structure of a Ponzi scheme is and how that analogy would apply to this system? You know future contributions from media deals not realised being used to pay liabilities being incurred today?

Oops.

 

[Gnostic]

Here's an idea - why don't Pappy and co. try and negotiate to an agreement with the ARU instead of chucking a tantrum and threatening to leave?

This situation has been simmering for three years. Do you think good management would go and speak to the stakeholders so clearly dissatisfied and prevent this from escalating.

Do I think the ARU is incompetent. Yes. Its been that way for a long time. Is Pulver the best CEO we've had for a while, well consider the competition is Flowers and JON who managed to in Bill's own words piss the $36M from the 2003 RWC up the wall he doesn't need to be real good to beat that, but with the Patston affair he gave it a good shake along with his lack of management of this. Instead we hear politician type damage control about "discussions" and "dialogue" every 12 months when the situation comes to a head. Would you have a sit down with somebody you have no faith in after three years of hearing the same things and that bloke also publicly making derogatory remarks?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Shouldn't the disgruntled clubs, noting that some appear to be only gruntled, from Sydney take up their beef with the NSW Rugby Union?

ARU deal with State Affiliated Bodies don't they?

 

[dru]

This situation has been simmering for three years. Do you think good management would go and speak to the stakeholders so clearly dissatisfied and prevent this from escalating.

Do I think the ARU is incompetent. Yes. Its been that way for a long time. Is Pulver the best CEO we've had for a while, well consider the competition is Flowers and JON who managed to in Bill's own words piss the $36M from the 2003 RWC up the wall he doesn't need to be real good to beat that, but with the Patston affair he gave it a good shake along with his lack of management of this. Instead we hear politician type damage control about "discussions" and "dialogue" every 12 months when the situation comes to a head. Would you have a sit down with somebody you have no faith in after three years of hearing the same things and that bloke also publicly making derogatory remarks?

So ae characterise two blokes on a polemic - Pulver and Papworth. Pulver is characterised as "a bloke publically making derogatory remarks". How do you characterise Papworth's contribution?

 

[TOCC]

Are the Qld teams even keen on this? Those guys seem reasonably happy with their NRC compared to the particularly PO'ed NSW Clubs (of which Eastwood is the key example).

QLD clubs baulked at the NRC cost, hence the QRU running them.. they wouldn't even consider bankrolling a comp in which there Reds EDS/EPS/U20s weren't going to feature..

Papworth is full of shit and just likes getting his name in the paper, if he really cared for rugby union in this country then he wouldn't be coming out with these comments in the week if the NRC GF.. serving his own self interests

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It needs super rugby because it provides professional pathway to compete at higher levels and keep aspirations for the young aspiring school kids and club players to want to play rugby......

If we had a strong domestic professional comp that could be sustained in long form like Super Rugby and where players could earn same wages I agree we could cut back on Super Rugby sides.....but at the moment until we have a strong domestic 'professional' comp it is imperative we keep 5 'professional' oz sides in Super Rugby.

 

[Gnostic]

So ae characterise two blokes on a polemic - Pulver and Papworth. Pulver is characterised as "a bloke publically making derogatory remarks". How do you characterise Papworth's contribution?

Frustrated, narrowly focussed disjointed and angry. None of which makes for a good spokesperson or negotiator.

The main part of Pulvers characterisation though is IMO borderline incompetent for the reasons stated.

 

[Gnostic]

QLD clubs baulked at the NRC cost, hence the QRU running them.. they wouldn't even consider bankrolling a comp in which there Reds EDS/EPS/U20s weren't going to feature..



Papworth is full of shit and just likes getting his name in the paper, if he really cared for rugby union in this country then he wouldn't be coming out with these comments in the week if the NRC GF.. serving his own self interests

I recall many similar comments being made by yourself and others when other issues about governance issues and performance issue in Australian Rugby. It always seems to be "fall into line F^%$ers and support the game, if you don't do what we say at this time of XYZ you are dirty traitors."

It is never a good time to rock the boat, or in this case take your cork out of the hole in the bilge.

 

[dru]

Frustrated, narrowly focussed disjointed and angry. None of which makes for a good spokesperson or negotiator.

The main part of Pulvers characterisation though is IMO borderline incompetent for the reasons stated.

I think you've very neatly nailed why sometimes communication fails. My characterisations are polar opposite to yours.

 

[Gnostic]

I think you've very neatly nailed why sometimes communication fails. My characterisations are polar opposite to yours.

You don't think Papworth is angry, disjointed and narrowly focussed and you think Pulver is borderline competent. Ok.

 

[p.Tah]

It appears that the 4 top clubs comp could be played so it's not in competition with the NRC. If so Foxsports would be interested. Now that's something I'd throw my support behind.

It appears QLD clubs have no interest in a breakaway league that competes with the NRC but they'd support the Foxsports idea.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...as-rebels-duck-for-cover-20161021-gs7s9s.html

 

[kiap]

It is never a good time to rock the boat, or in this case take your cork out of the hole in the bilge.

The SS Pappy has been holed more than once in the last few seasons, though. The reason being is the poor fellow is financially illiterate (and that's the kind interpretation). He couldn't read a balance sheet if his club depended on … oh, wait …

 

[Quick Hands]

QH, I'm not specifically talking about us people here.

Papworth says he speaks for the clubs.

I completely believe your comments and there's no reason not to the way Manly and Co have embraced things going forward.

But surely if the club as an organisation doesn't want to be lumped in with this, somebody representing Manly (and any others) should be saying, "Hey. He doesn't speak for us".

Although I'm not sure that he claims to be a spokesman for the clubs, he seems to use the all encompassing term of grass roots rugby.

I just think that club presidents engaged in a slanging match in public over internal governance is a bad look for the game. It might give some emotional satisfaction, but it would just make us all look like we spend more time squabbling than actually doing anything. Rarely does either side win in such circumstances - the super league war being a case in point.

Far better to make your point privately, use logic and evidence to advance your own cause, move on and ignore those who don't want to come with you and then let your actions speak for you. IMO the actions of the 8 clubs who are involved in the NRC are far more effective than the words and non-actions of the 4 who aren't. Long term I believe that the four are doing themselves a great disservice by their current strategy.

 

[barbarian]

This thing has fallen apart before they have even begun, it seems.

And considering a central tenet of 'the letter' was the importance of FTA coverage, I highly doubt Papworth and co will see interest from Fox Sports as a positive development.
.

 

[Gnostic]

The SS Pappy has been holed more than once in the last few seasons, though. The reason being is the poor fellow is financially illiterate (and that's the kind interpretation). He couldn't read a balance sheet if his club depended on … oh, wait …

Considering he spent most of his professional life working for Westpac I would think he learned their lessons on how to fleece customers rather well, so its a big call to say financially illiterate. That tag would certainly be better attached to the ARU for the past 20 years, all the State Unions excepting Qld under McCall/Carmichael until they lost the plot with Graham.

 

[kiap]

Considering he spent most of his professional life working for Westpac I would think he learned their lessons on how to fleece customers rather well, so its a big call to say financially illiterate.

So his claimed ARU figures are accurate?

Or are you saying they're wrong, and he knows it?

 

[Gnostic]

So his claimed ARU figures are accurate?



Or are you saying they're wrong, and he knows it?

I think I believe Papworth about the ARU books actually. Simply because I expect the figures cited by Papworth to be the straight up out of the report figures while Billy's number will be padded out politician/lawyer like with half truths and semantics.

It appears to me to be an argument about what the direct number is as opposed to a number that is that direct number plus bit and pieces of funding that is actually funding other aspects of the organisation but have some associated benefits or association with the "grass roots".

It really is an issue of trust and whilst I generally don't trust bankers, Pulver has failed at key times during his tenure, just less badly than his predecessors.