New Zealand v Wallabies, Eden Park, Sat 22nd October

[tragic]

Just saw a video tweet interviewing Cheika at the airport, he said that Kerevi's injury seems more serious than first thought. Still don't know what part of the body it is though, getting scans tomorrow.

He had a massive ice pack on his ankle.
Safe to say it's probably not his head

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Try again. Think @PFitzy has already posted similar images a page or two back for the Affirmative.

don't think so

 

[Upthenuts]

France got fined 15K. I know we are broke but 15K?

start give a little campaign to pay the fine,
but id love to see you guys do somehthing while the hakas on, team huddle,
ignore it, moon them. something to cause an internet meltdown

 

[Gnostic]

My thought on the Wallabies:-
The good:-
1) to my single and only watching it seemed the defensive pattern changed without having to shuffle the backline about to cover the dual playmaker rubbish. The defensive line was also far less compressed from the start and managed usually to have better set numbers wide.
2) Amazing - who'd have thought it, having a balanced backline in terms of skills would result in more fluent attack. It didn't pay off but that was the best attack the Wallabies have put together this year. As I've said I don't give a rats arse who starts but select one of Foley or Cooper and be done with it. I don't think the situation would be better with either Beale or To'omua fit. Pick a 12 at 12.
3) As with point 2 - very good to see a balanced backrow. Every player had an impact for their role. Was that the first lineout the Wallabies managed to steal all year? Our lineout was still under pressure but was better than it had been. To all those still bashing Mumm, the ABs couldn't get a single maul moving largely due to the efforts of Mumm to disrupt it. There hasn't been an Australian backrower able to execute that ability consistently since Ben Mowen. Apart from Fardy being so far out form it is why I think Mumm is picked over him and Timani at 6. The Lineout and the maul defence.
4) Phipps had a pretty good game I thought, but he should have been replaced after 50 as he was blown.
5) The attack structure - gone was the constant recycle of Larkham, Finally FFS. The Wallabies actually look to something with the ball, helped by some actually go forward from the forwards, provided by Timani, Kepu and the locks and close support for them, allowed by Point 3.
6)The scrum, starting and finishing tight 5s were good.

The bad:-
1) Hodge. I am unconvinced. A big bloke with no leg drive, not much pace and falls off too many tackle. Don't get me wrong I thought overall the Wallabies backline was the best it has been this year having somebody actually play 12, but I am not convinced Hodge is the man. The best game the Tahs played all year was with Horne in his natural position at 12, maybe he could be a solution, or from left field Tapuai, that's if my preference of Kerevi to 12 is unfavoured. The charge down. DHP has been in the side all year and is yet to make a single clearing kick that I can remember. He has a very good boot, why not use it and have two or three options at the back to keep the opposition guessing as to where the clearance is coming from? No lets be smart and telegraph it so he can show how good he is under pressure.
2) Speight - he has never been a good defensive winger (await Brumby fan abuse), but he is one of few top grade wingers in the country with genuine speed.
3) Skills - as usual the skills just are not up to scratch, BUT I think they may be improving.

Overall (scoreline ignored) the Wallabies performed far better than I expected and I'm happier for that. I did predict a 5 to 1 tries scored unfortunately but the actual performance was far better than anything else they put on at any time this year. I won't say anything at all about the ABs, as I've said it before, nothing has changed.

 

[tragic]

Pocock is so important to this team. Pocock, Fardy, Timani might be the best combo going forward.
.

I've been banging on about pocock / timani being our best 7/8 combination all season.
So much so that I've rule 10'd myself.
6 is still open other than "not mumm"
Hope the "not test standard" and "dinner plates for hands" posters are feeling contrite after the last two games.
The poopers been killing us and last night was the proof.

 

[Gnostic]

start give a little campaign to pay the fine,

but id love to see you guys do somehthing while the hakas on, team huddle,

ignore it, moon them. something to cause an internet meltdown

Look at the fine print of the law and take it to the absurd. I have had a look at the World Rugby Website but can't find it. My memory is something like form up on the 10 metre line and face the opposition. So do it sitting down.

 

[All Black Magic]

From a territory and possession point of view
the Wallabies were all over the All Blacks for a full
hour and were unlucky not to convert that
into points.
The stat from the commentators was the
All Blacks were in the Wallaby 22 for only
90 seconds in that 60 minute period.
Four tries were scored in those 90 seconds.

 

[The sage]

I'm so sick of feeling like we are always a little (or a lot) behind when it comes to the niggle and the mild cheating, like milking foul play penalties and living our lives offside.

If I was cheika I'd be working on crafting the dirtiest possible gameplan for the next time we face them. I don't mean grabbing their nuts or gouging their eyes, but pretty much everything else. I'm not suggesting it will make the required difference but if it even helps a little.

I'm also sick of the expectation that we are to treat the ABs like gods at every opportunity. Fuck them and their little dance. For all the banter about how our ignoring the haka in the 90s 'backfired' because we got beat afterwards - no one talks about how we constantly get beat whilst facing up to it. I reckon we go back to the sheds during it rather than be a prop in their pantomime.

Just out of interest, On the Haka, why is it allowed? It's not the national anthem. So why is it allowed?

On that point why is the anthem (like South Africa) allowed to be sung in two languages, surely one is enough, like everyone else? Do we need to sing the Australian national anthem in Greek Italian or Chinese?

I understand that it we are playing the nz Maori s then maybe the Haka is appropriate.


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[waiopehu oldboy]

Both sides of the fence have had their say on the Speight no try.

It is now getting repetitive and tedious.

MOVE ON.

Wise up y'all, that be "good mod" Hugh Jarse talking, nek time it be this guy:

And y'all don't want that, now does y'all?

EDIT: who knew @Cyclo looked so good in a wig?

 

[tragic]

Just out of interest, On the Haka, why is it allowed? It's not the national anthem. So why is it allowed?

On that point why is the anthem (like South Africa) allowed to be sung in two languages, surely one is enough, like everyone else? Do we need to sing the Australian national anthem in Greek Italian or Chinese?

I understand that it we are playing the nz Maori s then maybe it's appropriate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a crowd spectacle. The kids love it. Marketing loves it.
The players have seen it enough not to be intimidated by it.
The best answer is to smash them in the 15 minutes after.
I couldn't care less what they do before the whistle blows.

 

[Gnostic]

Just out of interest, On the Haka, why is it allowed? It's not the national anthem. So why is it allowed?



On that point why is the anthem (like South Africa) allowed to be sung in two languages, surely one is enough, like everyone else? Do we need to sing the Australian national anthem in Greek Italian or Chinese?



I understand that it we are playing the nz Maori s then maybe the Haka is appropriate.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you'll find that one of the first "war dances" was performed by an Australian side along the lines of an Aboriginal War Dance challenge either in the 1890s or 1900s. I did have an article on it before the old computer HDD crashed.

 

[tragic]

Whish two tries? You realise that it was Hodge that was charged down?

As for goal kicking, I'll agree on that point, if Hodge is good enough to take kicks from 50-60 metres WTF is he not good enough to take all of them. From 50 he was closer than a couple of Foley's.

Remember all the videos about the wallaby kicking woes.

Two tries last night came directly from the phases of play immediately after aimless foley kicks gifting counter attack possession to the ABs. This is where a lot of their tries are scored and we can't afford to keep doing it.
This is what several posts are alluding to.
There is at least one in every game foley has played at 10. Frequently 2. Ultimately the defence is at fault but the all blacks counter attack is just so good it's better not to give them the opportunity in the first place.
It's a weakness in foleys game that really needs to be addressed if he is to stay at 10.
But it hasn't changed all year and is unlikely to.

 

[zer0]

Just out of interest, On the Haka, why is it allowed? It's not the national anthem. So why is it allowed?

Tradition. The closest it's come to being ended was when Wayne Shelford (who is Maori) became captain in the 80's, and he told the All Blacks to either do it properly or don't do it at all.

On that point why is the anthem (like South Africa) allowed to be sung in two languages, surely one is enough, like everyone else? Do we need to sing the Australian national anthem in Greek Italian or Chinese?

I understand that it we are playing the nz Maori s then maybe the Haka is appropriate.

There are others who will know far more about the SA situation than myself, but I'm pretty sure it's due to a push to promote diversity, post-Apartheid. In NZ's case, Maori is an official language (English technically isn't). Maori culture also has a far greater role in the broader NZ culture (particularly in rugby) than Aboriginal culture does in larger Australian culture.

In both cases I imagine it's somewhat similar to the Aboriginal welcome thing (I'm sure the ceremony has a name, but I don't know it) that they do before cricket tests (and increasingly in rugby games?).

 

[Bullrush]

Look at the fine print of the law and take it to the absurd. I have had a look at the World Rugby Website but can't find it. My memory is something like form up on the 10 metre line and face the opposition. So do it sitting down.

That would be hilarious!!

I hate the 'rules' around how sides can respond to the haka. It doesn't need to be 'respected' or anything like that at all.

I think teams should be allowed to do whatever they want so long as it is OK to show on TV eg. can't moon it. Although I wouldn't care if a team did.

Teams just need to do whatever is best for them to get themselves in the match.

Just let them be themselves.

 

[Viking]

Remember all the videos about the wallaby kicking woes.

Two tries last night came directly from the phases of play immediately after aimless foley kicks gifting counter attack possession to the ABs. This is where a lot of their tries are scored and we can't afford to keep doing it.
This is what several posts are alluding to.
There is at least one in every game foley has played at 10. Frequently 2. Ultimately the defence is at fault but the all blacks counter attack is just so good it's better not to give them the opportunity in the first place.
It's a weakness in foleys game that really needs to be addressed if he is to stay at 10.
But it hasn't changed all year and is unlikely to.

The thing about Foley's kicking is that it isn't just a weakness, it's a liability which frequently puts us on unnecessary pressure.

He seriously just needs to stop, actually make an effort to get out of position and let some-one else clear.

Although the rest of his game was good last night.

 

[Gnostic]

Remember all the videos about the wallaby kicking woes.

Two tries last night came directly from the phases of play immediately after aimless foley kicks gifting counter attack possession to the ABs. This is where a lot of their tries are scored and we can't afford to keep doing it.

This is what several posts are alluding to.

There is at least one in every game foley has played at 10. Frequently 2. Ultimately the defence is at fault but the all blacks counter attack is just so good it's better not to give them the opportunity in the first place.

It's a weakness in foleys game that really needs to be addressed if he is to stay at 10.

But it hasn't changed all year and is unlikely to.

Its in Quade's game as well. I'm not biased either way, as I've said time and time again, I don't care which is picked but only one, no more two playmaker crap, as we saw last night the Wallabies can actually attack far better with a single "playmaker" at 10.

 

[KOB1987]

Just for interest, Beugan's brother Jordie has been selected in the NZ EOYT party as an apprentice (whatever TF that means) , and Scott is travelling as injury cover for Whitelock. Neither of them are named in the actual touring party though.

 

[Gnostic]

Tradition. The closest it's come to being ended was when Wayne Shelford (who is Maori) became captain in the 80's, and he told the All Blacks to either do it properly or don't do it at all.









There are others who will know far more about the SA situation than myself, but I'm pretty sure it's due to a push to promote diversity, post-Apartheid. In NZ's case, Maori is an official language (English technically isn't). Maori culture also has a far greater role in the broader NZ culture (particularly in rugby) than Aboriginal culture does in larger Australian culture.



In both cases I imagine it's somewhat similar to the Aboriginal welcome thing (I'm sure the ceremony has a name, but I don't know it) that they do before cricket tests (and increasingly in rugby games?).

Its simple the welcome to country, permission from an elder of that tribal group to enter the lands of that tribe.

One of the main issues is there is no one Language/Culture/Nation. The heaped together Australian Aboriginal Grouping is composed of over 250 language groups at the time of white settlement. I don't know how many still exist, but as with any Euro settlement significantly less I'd say. So how do you create an inclusive one size fits all anthem/war dance/welcome to cover all the disparate peoples and cultures.

Not saying it shouldn't be done, but where to start. The Welcome to Country is a good place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indigenous_Australian_group_names

 

[zer0]

Just for interest, Beugan's brother Jordie has been selected in the NZ EOYT party as an apprentice (whatever TF that means) , and Scott is travelling as injury cover for Whitelock. Neither of them are named in the actual touring party though.

He's basically the bag boy who will be 'assisting' in training. It's what they did with Ardie Savea a few years ago. I'm guessing that there's some sort of management/logistical reason why he's not selected in a larger tour squad.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Just for interest, Beugan's brother Jordie has been selected in the NZ EOYT party as an apprentice (whatever TF that means) , and Scott is travelling as injury cover. Neither of them are named in the actual touring party though.

Kinda makes Jordie the unpaid intern: he'll travel & train with the team but won't play unless called in as an injury replacement. They did the same with Ardie Savea a coupla years ago. Scott I'd say will be in the 23 for Ireland in Chicago then return to NZ unless Retallick's still not OK.

EDIT: @zer0 I think you'll find NZRU can't claim Jordie as part of their official squad in terms of what costs they can claim off the host Unions.

EDIT: SBarrett covering Retallick (concussion ~3 week recovery) AND Whitelock (high ankle sprain, 3-6 weeks).