EOYT 2016 - Possibles, probables and general banter

[Dalai Ninja]

For some bizarre reason I think Korobeite may not let us down the way all the others have - I have no basis for it.
But if a bloke needs a promise as opposed to an incentivised contract I wonder what the ARU bought.
And it's our money they used to buy it.

All the others? Lote Tuqiri, Mat Rogers and Wendell Sailor were all good Wallabies. At times, very good Wallabies. I daresay all would get a run today at their best. If Koroibete turns out to be a Jason Robinson (the closest mungo I can think of in his playing style) then we'll all be criticizing each others' skeptical posts in a year, and claiming we were the first to see the light.

Koroibete has huge upside. Professional sportsmen are like racehorses. They don't have to earn your bet. You just have to back the one that's going to win. The question is whether Koroibete is going to win. This tour, for the first time in aeons, we have three fast, elusive wingers. Koroibete and Naivalu have both run in the tens. I think we should be eagerly anticipating how that turns out, rather than moaning about how it came to pass.

Sport is meant to be fun, not a lemon-sucking contest.

 

[Marcelo]

Leaving Morahan at home and taking Koroibete amongst the official squad is a terrible look for Australian rugby. I get that the ARU would want to fast track his development and there is nothing wrong with that. Doesn't change the fact that Morahan played well for the Force in a struggling team, absolutely shredded the NRC and should be touring ahead of him (and potentially one of Speight or Naivalu).

Surely anyone involved could have seen that the easiest thing to do would have been to take Morahan and then name Koroibete as an "apprentice" or some such with the express point that he's coming to train and play for the BaaBaa's/against the French BaaBaa's.

Morahan has had many years to make the Wallabies starting XV. Even Rob Horne made the starting XV in these poor years, probably Morahan is not too good to play at test level. If he wants to be a starter test player he should have made more tries and better performances at Super Rugby level, if he would have played more games at the level that he played vs British Lions, he would be a test player.

If you want someone who's committe to the game, then pick a G&GR user. Professional sport is cruel, you can't make solidarity with elections.

 

[Hawko]

I think you're right TWAS, and I don't expect to see Godwin named in the side barring a spate of injuries. But I really do think he showed some of his best form for many years in the NRC just passed, and if he does make it on the field there won't be any defensive issues in his spot.

Yes Godwin showed his best form for several years in the NRC, a competition that is one (significant) step down from Super level. But in that competition he was probably the third or fourth best 12 on display. Both Simone and Lance were a class above him and probably Tapuai too - do we expect them to feel aggrieved that they were overlooked? I would take Lance in front of Godwin any day and I'm sorry to see Simone didn't get a development spot for the Barbarians game.

I am glad Koroibete is going as a development player and I would have dropped Speight for Morahan. I would be using Morahan as the back-up to DHP at 15. Morahan is best at 15 - he seems to be more involved there. I think the reason he's not going is that he has not, in the last two years, played at a CONSISTENTLY high level and often just seems to make up the numbers. Even so, on the basis of his NRC form, I would have taken him over Speight, who once was exceptional for the Brumbies and would have been almost first-picked if not for injury three years ago. But we have seen no signs of that form for two years now.

Folau would be playing 13/14 in my team, with Kerevi at 12 if fit; given his injury then Hodge plays 12 with Lance/Foley as his back-up. Naivalu and Kuridrani would play on the wings in attack with Folau and Kuridrani swapping in defence so that Folau can field kicks and run the ball up.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yes Godwin showed his best form for several years in the NRC, a competition that is one (significant) step down from Super level. But in that competition he was probably the third or fourth best 12 on display. Both Simone and Lance were a class above him and probably Tapuai too - do we expect them to feel aggrieved that they were overlooked? I would take Lance in front of Godwin any day and I'm sorry to see Simone didn't get a development spot for the Barbarians game.

I am glad Koroibete is going as a development player and I would have dropped Speight for Morahan. I would be using Morahan as the back-up to DHP at 15. Morahan is best at 15 - he seems to be more involved there. I think the reason he's not going is that he has not, in the last two years, played at a CONSISTENTLY high level and often just seems to make up the numbers. Even so, on the basis of his NRC form, I would have taken him over Speight, who once was exceptional for the Brumbies and would have been almost first-picked if not for injury three years ago. But we have seen no signs of that form for two years now.

Folau would be playing 13/14 in my team, with Kerevi at 12 if fit; given his injury then Hodge plays 12 with Lance/Foley as his back-up. Naivalu and Kuridrani would play on the wings in attack with Folau and Kuridrani swapping in defence so that Folau can field kicks and run the ball up.

Agree with all of that except kuridrani on the wing...tbh don't disagree or agree as first time seen that suggested and not sure got my head around that as to whether that could work or not. Only got 3 specialist wingers in squad which includes koriobete so something to perhaps consider...leave to others to work that one out as never seen kuridrani as wing option but I am struggling to see how that would work


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[KOB1987]

All the others? Lote Tuqiri, Mat Rogers and Wendell Sailor were all good Wallabies.

I suspect he's talking about the lesser known, lower profile converts who didn't quite make it. There is a long list of those.

Agree with the rest of your post.

 

[fatprop]

It is very "Cheika" (to bring in Korobeite) we have had a significant weakness all season out wide, too slow and no threat one on one. He bought in Naiyaravoro half way through a Tahs season for that threat

Cheika prefers wingers who are a threat one on one when given an inch of space.

We now have Korobeite, Naivalu & Speight. Each has the pace that will mean defenders have to mark them closely and that widens the defensive line spacing opening opportunities

Morahan is more a kick n chase unit, whilst spectacular when it comes off, it doesn't build preasure

 

[KOB1987]

Re Godwin, I have no problem with him being trotted out at some point. In fact if we go into any game without Hodge or Foley he's likely to at least be on the bench because we just don't have any other coverage for 12 (although I'm curious about and watching with interest the placement of Folau there on the weekend) .

There's obviously a very talented player hidden away in there somewhere, possibly the coaching and/or player environment over at the Farce has disrupted his development and maybe, just maybe, with better coaching and better players around him maybe he'll be unlocked on this tour.

I did an analysis (yes, simplistic and statistical) of all the 12s from the supe season and he showed up quite strongly and the most rounded of all of them. Defensively he was very impressive, 93% I think it was.

 

[fatprop]

Re Godwin, I have no problem with him being trotted out at some point. In fact if we go into any game without Hodge or Foley he's likely to at least be on the bench because we just don't have any other coverage for 12 (although I'm curious about and watching with interest the placement of Folau there on the weekend) .

There's obviously a very talented player hidden away in there somewhere, possibly the coaching and/or player environment over at the Farce has disrupted his development and maybe, just maybe, with better coaching and better players around him maybe he'll be unlocked on this tour.

I did an analysis (yes, simplistic and statistical) of all the 12s from the supe season and he showed up quite strongly and the most rounded of all of them. Defensively he was very impressive, 93% I think it was.

and he is the last 12 standing.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think if most people are looking at the bigger picture with Korobeite....the ARU and Rebels should be applauded for his signing as on paper looks the goods. We could argue yes whether he deserves wallaby call up but there are definitely pro's and con's to this and not so black and white and would be good if could see the upside to Korobeite's signing and potential to play for the Wallabies then as someone aptly quoted "seeking to suck a lemon" on fact been included in Wallabies tour.

Sure always a risk might turn out as expected but on paper this looks to me like right sort of signing giving profile of player, past union pedigree and appeal it will have to PI followers of our game in oz and overseas and fact most importantly he fills a position where we don't have a lot of top shelf wingers with the pace, defensive capabilities(cough anyone see how many tackles Speight missed last game) and dynamic sort of zip Korobeite has in spades.

People always talk about how much success Tuquiri, Sailor and Rogers had for the Wallabies....well from a marketing our game the fact we still regularly talk about these players and how much media they got back in those days suggests the investment is still returning dividends by fact we still talk about those players. It also encourages other high profile players who may have union background in league to return to union when they see these sort of league stars be a success in union which is all very good for union.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

All the others? Lote Tuqiri, Mat Rogers and Wendell Sailor were all good Wallabies. At times, very good Wallabies. I daresay all would get a run today at their best. If Koroibete turns out to be a Jason Robinson (the closest mungo I can think of in his playing style) then we'll all be criticizing each others' skeptical posts in a year, and claiming we were the first to see the light.

Koroibete has huge upside. Professional sportsmen are like racehorses. They don't have to earn your bet. You just have to back the one that's going to win. The question is whether Koroibete is going to win. This tour, for the first time in aeons, we have three fast, elusive wingers. Koroibete and Naivalu have both run in the tens. I think we should be eagerly anticipating how that turns out, rather than moaning about how it came to pass.

Sport is meant to be fun, not a lemon-sucking contest.

I said let us down.
The Wallabies have a responsibility on and off the field and all of the ex-leaguies let us down one way or another - and thats not to say the homegrown product doesn't also do so from time to time.
We paid for it because we built the amateur game which has been leveraged to their considerable financial advantage, while at the same time refusing to acknowledge the near 100 year debt incurred - but thats for another thread and another time.
Punters did not breed the horses they bet on - we (or at least people my age) bred the modern game.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yes Godwin showed his best form for several years in the NRC, a competition that is one (significant) step down from Super level. But in that competition he was probably the third or fourth best 12 on display. Both Simone and Lance were a class above him and probably Tapuai too - do we expect them to feel aggrieved that they were overlooked? I would take Lance in front of Godwin any day and I'm sorry to see Simone didn't get a development spot for the Barbarians game.

I am glad Koroibete is going as a development player and I would have dropped Speight for Morahan. I would be using Morahan as the back-up to DHP at 15. Morahan is best at 15 - he seems to be more involved there. I think the reason he's not going is that he has not, in the last two years, played at a CONSISTENTLY high level and often just seems to make up the numbers. Even so, on the basis of his NRC form, I would have taken him over Speight, who once was exceptional for the Brumbies and would have been almost first-picked if not for injury three years ago. But we have seen no signs of that form for two years now.

Folau would be playing 13/14 in my team, with Kerevi at 12 if fit; given his injury then Hodge plays 12 with Lance/Foley as his back-up. Naivalu and Kuridrani would play on the wings in attack with Folau and Kuridrani swapping in defence so that Folau can field kicks and run the ball up.

Hawko, I'm with you on most counts.

Certainly think Lance should have been included but as a 10/12. If I'm not mistaken, he played all of his NRC games at 10, and that is his spot with the Force as well. Hard to then put him in front of Godwin as a 12 based on form.

Simone was the standout No 12, and I'd put Godwin and Tapuai on level terms after him. Simone certainly wouldn't have been out of place as a development player on this tour. Nevertheless, Godwin was showing good form and his selection as last man standing is probably justified.

Totally agree that Morahan would be a strong back up option at 15 as well as wing and he is probably the most unlucky player to miss the tour given our real need for another player at the back to be able to kick us out of trouble. I would also have taken him in preference to either Speight or Naivalu - probably Speight on form, though I haven't seen Sefa set the world alight at Super Rugby or test level since he returned from injury recently.

No way can I see Kuridrani playing wing. Just doesn't have the top end speed. He is primarily a straight runner who relies on busting tackles to get over the gain line. He is slowly regaining his ability to play that game after injuries and imo should be first option to replace Kerevi at 13.

 

[Wilson]

Article here says four development players will be taken even though they weren't announced: http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/...d/news-story/26fc284e82059b70337227afc0b58798

Lists the three rumoured in Tupou, perese and Dempsey and adds kellaway.

 

[namtrak]

Godwin as a 10? I think he was bought into the Force as a 10 originally. Maybe a left field option.

 

[Braveheart81]

Godwin as a 10? I think he was bought into the Force as a 10 originally. Maybe a left field option.

He's looked less and less like a 10 the more adult rugby he has played. He didn't look good there when he played in the under 20s.

 

[Highlander35]

9. Genia
10. Frisby
11. Phipps
12. Godwin
13. Hodge
14. Foley
15. Cooper

 

[RugbyReg]

Frisby actually also played 15 for I think the Oz Under 20s??? Was pretty damaging from the back there

 

[Braveheart81]

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2016/10/26/02/50/wallabies-development-players

Here's the official story about Tupou, Perese, Dempsey and Kellaway joining the tour. They will only be available for selection for the Australia A game v Barbarians unless injuries force a change. Seemingly Tupou can't play for Australia A at this point either.

 

[I like to watch]

He's looked less and less like a 10 the more adult rugby he has played. He didn't look good there when he played in the under 20s.

Seriously, if our playing stocks ever got to a level that he is a viable choice at 10, then we are doomed for a generation.
The much vaunted pathway program continues to crank out 10's with slow feet,slower brains and sub par kicking games.
Godwin has been adequate, and nothing more in NRC, Simone ,head and shoulders above every other 12.
Kellaway had a very much rocks or diamonds NRC.

How about we start picking guys on recent form?

 

[wamberal]

We have to do something more than just picking on recent form. We have to start manufacturing some fly-halves.


We are not too badly off in most positions, but for some reason, we are just gash at what is probably the most important position on the field (apologies to all those tight head props who think they are).

 

[Train Without a Station]

I cannot believe Kellaway has been selected.

He is so far away from that level it's not funny. Playing Super Rugby he was picked as a fullback and repeatedly shifted away from defending at fullback due to his weaknesses.