The fancy words are "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
2012 Rugby Championship Game 1 Australia vs New Zealand - 18 August
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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The fancy words are "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
It's a joke. As sports, fans we're a joke.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Thew Zealand rugby team has a great record against us, but still we surprise you one or two times each year. The pleasure is the greatest when you're at your most gormlessly arrogant.
Against other teams we have an excellent percentage. Good luck with your predictions.
Nonetheless, if you'd like to spot $1k with me on one of the betting sites that we'll win <= 1 games then I'm up for it. What are your odds?
Riptide
Dave Cowper (27)
As has been said, it's pretty clear that Deans has picked a team to limit mistakes, deliver a more accurate kicking game and to put pressure on the ABs through a more territorial approach and tight defensive line. It may work, but it's simply not an approach I excited to see the Wallabies take. We worry NZ when we attack them and take a cut. With Barnes, we are less likely to present them with anything that should disturb their excellent defensive line. Having said that, I think NZ will be less accurate after less preparation than the Wallabies who may just need to play a controlled, pressure game to keep the score board ticking over. For me, this is the Wallabies best chance at a victory. I think NZ is more likely to fire over there in the return leg.
However, like many others, I'm concerned about several selections.. TPN and Timani being foremost. These two players are simply too ill-disciplined and their form does not justify selection. On no grounds should TPN get in ahead of Moore. If the Wallabies are to play a more ball control game, I'm concerned that we are lacking the sharp horses in the front five to execute consistently against NZ.
Horne has tightened up his defensive game toward the back end of the season but I still would not let him near a Wallaby 22. I'm not really worried about SBW but Nonu who remains their most under-rated player. If Nonu runs sharp lines off quick ball, he could really do some damage. Carter obviously has the game to keep the Wallaby midfield guessing and to pick the runners going through holes but if NZ generate quick ball from midfield consistently, it could be a long day irrespective of how Barnes plays.
However, like many others, I'm concerned about several selections.. TPN and Timani being foremost. These two players are simply too ill-disciplined and their form does not justify selection. On no grounds should TPN get in ahead of Moore. If the Wallabies are to play a more ball control game, I'm concerned that we are lacking the sharp horses in the front five to execute consistently against NZ.
Horne has tightened up his defensive game toward the back end of the season but I still would not let him near a Wallaby 22. I'm not really worried about SBW but Nonu who remains their most under-rated player. If Nonu runs sharp lines off quick ball, he could really do some damage. Carter obviously has the game to keep the Wallaby midfield guessing and to pick the runners going through holes but if NZ generate quick ball from midfield consistently, it could be a long day irrespective of how Barnes plays.
I've been away from the adult section recently whilst schools rugby has been in top gear.
This team was always going to be based on that which contended in the Wales series give or take a few injuries back and forth. It should not have been otherwise.
Anthony Fainga'a's return to the starting team is well deserved whether or not McCabe was crocked. The presence of SBW in the All Black side starting team requires a strong defensive player in the position.
The omission of Quade from the matchday 22 cannot be a surprise given the strong form of Barnes against Wales and the choice of a 5th forward reserve, Samo. If those factors were not enough, Cooper's Bledisloe record and recent return from a serious knee injury would have been clinchers.
I thought that Palu's play for 80 minutes in Sydney was the signal for a patch of healthy form but it was not to be. I don't know that Higgers is the man for a Bledisloe test at no.8, but there is one way to find out: to play him there.
We lack depth in a few areas and one of them is the stable of big ball runners with 6 or 8 on their backs who can run though opponents in traffic. It is well that Dennis is in best career form. You won't see too many frills from this lad but he is the type of player we need.
I agree with the bench choice of Hooper ahead of Gill but don't know that I will hold that opinion for very long.
The selection of Simmons for the bench will disappoint some people but he has to settle the matter with more consistent efforts from week to week when he gets his chance this winter.
I was pleased to see Douglas make the most recent squad, even at the expense of Pyle and Neville, who I rate; he is another hard nosed, no frills player and was in form. If a Tahs player was to start in the 2nd row for the Wallabies next Saturday I would have chosen him, not Timani. This big bopper is not the player he was a year ago, but let's see how he goes against the Blackness before we are too harsh.
There is nothing untoward in starting the Tahs front row in this test match; nor anything remarkable: they did the starting job against Wales well enough. The omission of Alexander from the matchday 22 could have happened at any time in the last 2 years; perhaps Deans got better advice in 2012. Some folks will quibble about whom of the 5 front rowers should have been chosen to start, but at least we will have the names of the 5 best in the programme.
This is a no-frills team that lacks X-factor in the backline, but if their forwards get good front foot ball the backs will look better of a sudden. Genia, in particular, needs the forwards to add value to him.
I hope that the defensive people have studied the switching moves of Kiwi teams because sometimes the Wobs play like they have never seen them before - nor shallow restarts, nor Kiwis in their ruck space. And since Gerrard is not playing they should not get involved in kicking duels, nor ever start them unless they have to clear the ball.
And if the Blacks don't commit players to rucks and spread out, one hopes the Wobs won't play blow-fly against the window pane rugby in the backs, but let the forwards take it up the middle. They have the players for it.
.
This team was always going to be based on that which contended in the Wales series give or take a few injuries back and forth. It should not have been otherwise.
Anthony Fainga'a's return to the starting team is well deserved whether or not McCabe was crocked. The presence of SBW in the All Black side starting team requires a strong defensive player in the position.
The omission of Quade from the matchday 22 cannot be a surprise given the strong form of Barnes against Wales and the choice of a 5th forward reserve, Samo. If those factors were not enough, Cooper's Bledisloe record and recent return from a serious knee injury would have been clinchers.
I thought that Palu's play for 80 minutes in Sydney was the signal for a patch of healthy form but it was not to be. I don't know that Higgers is the man for a Bledisloe test at no.8, but there is one way to find out: to play him there.
We lack depth in a few areas and one of them is the stable of big ball runners with 6 or 8 on their backs who can run though opponents in traffic. It is well that Dennis is in best career form. You won't see too many frills from this lad but he is the type of player we need.
I agree with the bench choice of Hooper ahead of Gill but don't know that I will hold that opinion for very long.
The selection of Simmons for the bench will disappoint some people but he has to settle the matter with more consistent efforts from week to week when he gets his chance this winter.
I was pleased to see Douglas make the most recent squad, even at the expense of Pyle and Neville, who I rate; he is another hard nosed, no frills player and was in form. If a Tahs player was to start in the 2nd row for the Wallabies next Saturday I would have chosen him, not Timani. This big bopper is not the player he was a year ago, but let's see how he goes against the Blackness before we are too harsh.
There is nothing untoward in starting the Tahs front row in this test match; nor anything remarkable: they did the starting job against Wales well enough. The omission of Alexander from the matchday 22 could have happened at any time in the last 2 years; perhaps Deans got better advice in 2012. Some folks will quibble about whom of the 5 front rowers should have been chosen to start, but at least we will have the names of the 5 best in the programme.
This is a no-frills team that lacks X-factor in the backline, but if their forwards get good front foot ball the backs will look better of a sudden. Genia, in particular, needs the forwards to add value to him.
I hope that the defensive people have studied the switching moves of Kiwi teams because sometimes the Wobs play like they have never seen them before - nor shallow restarts, nor Kiwis in their ruck space. And since Gerrard is not playing they should not get involved in kicking duels, nor ever start them unless they have to clear the ball.
And if the Blacks don't commit players to rucks and spread out, one hopes the Wobs won't play blow-fly against the window pane rugby in the backs, but let the forwards take it up the middle. They have the players for it.
.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Half that pack of starting Wallaby forwards were woefully out of form just a few weeks ago in SupeRugby. I think that it is asking way too much to expect them all to suddenly find form over whomever the ABs pick, regardless of extra training time.
I think that I would've taken a 4 - 3 split and not taken Samo. All three starting loosies are 80 minute players, so not sure why Deans has two loosies on the bench, unless he intends to sub both locks. Besides, it is not like we will see Phipps get on anyway unless Genia gets injured, in which case we have probably lost already.
If Deans doesn't use his forward reserves, I fail to see how he could justify not taking a conventional 4 - 3 split.
I think that I would've taken a 4 - 3 split and not taken Samo. All three starting loosies are 80 minute players, so not sure why Deans has two loosies on the bench, unless he intends to sub both locks. Besides, it is not like we will see Phipps get on anyway unless Genia gets injured, in which case we have probably lost already.
If Deans doesn't use his forward reserves, I fail to see how he could justify not taking a conventional 4 - 3 split.
Riptide
Dave Cowper (27)
I just listened to the Podcast (another great hour) and I'm not so concerned about Paul's loss. This will be a high work-rate, fewer frills Wallaby outfit. I though the pack munched the Welsh over each 80 played and so I'm not concerned about the impact of our back row at the breakdown or our lack of ball carrying because TPN/Moore, Sharpe, Timani, Dennis, Higgers can all pose questions in and around the breakdown and that's saying nothing about Genia. The ABs will win first phase ball - they must be denied getting over the gain line to generate quick ball from susbsequent phases. Their attack is well known to us all. Nonu at 13, or Gear/Savea running inside him with Dagg on the other shoulder could be a handful if Carter/SBW holds the inside defense.
teach
Trevor Allan (34)
Schadenfreude
John Solomon (38)
Phipps. WTF.
gold heart
Ted Fahey (11)
we all know we have a love hate relationship with our little brothers over the dutch but farrrk the kiwis im sick of their annoying smug voices.....cin i ave a sex pack of beer some fush and chops please and a cadbury whup.... just for once roll them wallabies so we don't have to listen to their smug annoying commentary
.
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
Haha I actually enjoy the NZ commentary on fox most of the time. It's biased but no where near as bad as the Aus commentators!
Thems are very very fancy words! Me likey!
Thems are very very fancy words! Me likey!
disco
Chilla Wilson (44)
I just can't believe that he has picked Timani over Simmons, Douglas, Pyle & Neville. I just become depressed when I think about the team & the match on saturday & how fucked in the head Robbie Deans is.
I can live with Rob Horne being in the team but Timani & Phipps is beyond belief that Deans has actually ever watched any test rugby in his life let alone coached at the highest level it has to be sabotage
unnecessary playing the man................ deleted FP.
I can live with Rob Horne being in the team but Timani & Phipps is beyond belief that Deans has actually ever watched any test rugby in his life let alone coached at the highest level it has to be sabotage
unnecessary playing the man................ deleted FP.
Without Palu, we need some strong tacklers. In the Wales series, Palu consistently was close to our top tackler.
Hopefully Timani provides plenty of physicality and works hard. Clearly he will need to pull off a superhuman effort to win over the masses.
I think Higginbotham needs to play out of his skin. He needs to play a tight game and do plenty of hard yards. He needs to make some dominant tackles.
Hopefully Timani provides plenty of physicality and works hard. Clearly he will need to pull off a superhuman effort to win over the masses.
I think Higginbotham needs to play out of his skin. He needs to play a tight game and do plenty of hard yards. He needs to make some dominant tackles.
No4918
John Hipwell (52)
I know you guys are trying to be positive but your language tells me neither of you are confident he can have the effect you think he is being selected for.
TPN, Higgers and Timani are hardly reknowned for there work in tight. Then to choose a backline that suits a tighter game and to say they will look at going through the AB's rather than around. It makes no sense.
Really looking forward to seeing Fainga'a at 12. Not the ideal choice but i am a fan and think it's probably as good or better than having McCabe at 12. He has better ball playing ability and a good combination with Genia and Ioane. He was great at 12 off Cooper a couple of years ago before shifting to 13. Hopefully Barnes takes the line on early to put the defence in two minds and keep a defender or two watching him all game. If he doesn't Finger and Horne are going to be smashed all night.
I am not confident, but the reality is that I would have no confidence that Simmons would have an impact either. Simmons clearly offers more in the lineout but less everywhere else. Simmons sometimes plays well but has the horrible habit of going missing and losing sight of what he is meant to do (e.g. the Super Rugby semi final against the Sharks where he often just loitered offside to get in the way).
If Timani doesn't have a storming game then I think we have to see a change for the next test with Douglas at least moving on to the bench and Timani dropping out of the 22 altogether.
White I believe has played all season with the same injury according to Canberra Times, and was picked for the Wales series under the same cloud tho never was capped, played all season for the Brumbies & had a great 1st season, so why pick him in the 30 to train & I quote Deans from last wkends SMH " to cover" the 9 spot until his surgery ? If he's available & as ready to play as he has been all year why the hell is he not on the bench ? I only hope Deans is not screwing with him, we can't afford only 1 no 9 & ATM we only have Genia then White, who is IMO closing the gap, then a far off Phipps. I'd entice you to play for the Rebels Nic but I can't wait to see how the Brumbie story unfolds. Good luck to all the chosen players for the Wallabies, just sad that we could have been a liitle stronger, Cooper & Barnes side by side, 2 of our strongest backs & only room in the 22 for 1, & Moore on the bench not starting, it's a head scratcher. Will still sit & support on saturday.
twenty seven
Tom Lawton (22)
Scoey you must have only heard their commentary when they are winning!!. When the AB's or any Kiwi Super Rugby team aren't doing the best the commentary can turn on a dime. Their biasness puts our team to shame.
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