2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 2 Australia vs Argentina - 15 Sep

[barbarian]

I can't see the problem with giving Harris a crack. If he's as dreadful as made out in this thread it will be very clear after two tests and we can rule him out. TRC is a lost cause now anyway and we will likely have a new coach (I guess?) prior to EOTY.

Sometimes I wonder if some of you are concerned someone will replace your boyfriend and end up playing better, leaving him on the outer.

What a load of shite.

You don't simply throw someone into the Wallaby 10 spot to 'have a crack' and see what happens. There is no evidence to suggest Harris is up to being a Wallaby at all, let alone a 10.As per above I could name five players more worthy of the jersey than Mike.
.

 

[H...]

Beale looked amazing at GPS level but the world caught up to him, as it does so many others.

 

[Braveheart81]

Beale looked amazing at GPS level but the world caught up to him, as it does so many others.

Beale was amazing in 2010.

When he finds fitness and form he has the ability to be on the of the best rugby players in the world.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yeah Harris ain't a test 10

Cooper? he made mistakes but he also created two try scoring opportunities. He is the best we have, he is no where near perfect, but . . he is it

The Samo one involved - you guessed it - a cut out pass: with the man cut out having no one in front of him and who would have drawn the defence that eventually monstered Samo.

 

[H...]

What a load of shite.

You don't simply throw someone into the Wallaby 10 spot to 'have a crack' and see what happens. There is no evidence to suggest Harris is up to being a Wallaby at all, let alone a 10.As per above I could name five players more worthy of the jersey than Mike.
.

Larkham was an out-there choice for 10 also. That went okay.

 

[H...]

Beale was amazing in 2010.

When he finds fitness and form he has the ability to be on the of the best rugby players in the world.

He's never impressed me at 10 since he left school, though. Are you expecting something magical to happen?

 

[Scotty]

I can't see the problem with giving Harris a crack. If he's as dreadful as made out in this thread it will be very clear after two tests and we can rule him out. TRC is a lost cause now anyway and we will likely have a new coach (I guess?) prior to EOTY.

Sometimes I wonder if some of you are concerned someone will replace your boyfriend and end up playing better, leaving him on the outer.

Harris would make a reasonable 12 at Test level, particularly if Barnes wasn't in the team. Great kicking, good defense and good straight running.

However he is 3rd choice 10 at the Reds. It would be ridiculous to select him there for the wallabies.

 

[barbarian]

Larkham was an out-there choice for 10 also. That went okay.

Well if we are going to go way out-there, what about me?

And Larkham had actually started tests for the Wallabies at 15 and proved himself up to test level before being thrown in at 10. Harris has not.

One of my pet hates in rugby selection debates is people who propose baseless left-field selections and then say "it worked with Larkham, so why shouldn't it work with Greg Holmes at 13?". Larkham was a freak, a one-off genius, and to expect a similar result with Mike Harris is insulting to Bernie IMO.
.

 

[fatprop]

The Samo one involved - you guessed it - a cut out pass: with the man cut out having no one in front of him and who would have drawn the defence that eventually monstered Samo.

Forget the Samo, so created three opportunities, I wish I was so shit

 

[Braveheart81]

He's never impressed me at 10 since he left school, though. Are you expecting something magical to happen?

He was a key part in getting the Tahs to the final in 2008.

He showed some glimpses of brilliance for the Rebels in 2012.

For the record, I think we should persist we Cooper for the next two tests at least. Unless that proves a disaster he should also by the starting 10 on the EOYT.

 

[H...]

Well if we are going to go way out-there, what about me?

And Larkham had actually started tests for the Wallabies at 15 and proved himself up to test level before being thrown in at 10. Harris has not.

I don't know what people think we'd be jeopardising by experimenting. Our wonderful win/loss record? All the trophies we've got?

And frankly, if you can kick goals, kick the ball down the paddock (with some vague level of control) and can tackle, then sure.

I am not of the view that we are "almost there".

 

[H...]

He was a key part in getting the Tahs to the final in 2008.

He showed some glimpses of brilliance for the Rebels in 2012.

For the record, I think we should persist we Cooper for the next two tests at least. Unless that proves a disaster he should also by the starting 10 on the EOYT.

Hard to take you too seriously when he's in your avatar. Clearly something of a fan.

 

[Braveheart81]

Hard to take you too seriously when he's in your avatar. Clearly something of a fan.

I've been meaning to change that for a while, but yes I am a Kurtley Beale fan.

I don't get how anything I said was so outrageous.

I would like to see Beale play 10 for the Rebels next season. I am in no rush to see him picked at 10 for the Wallabies.

 

[barbarian]

I don't know what people think we'd be jeopardising by experimenting. Our wonderful win/loss record? All the trophies we've got?

And frankly, if you can kick goals, kick the ball down the paddock (with some vague level of control) and can tackle, then sure.

I am not of the view that we are "almost there".

Just because we aren't playing brilliantly it doesn't mean you start dishing out Wallaby caps to anyone with two functioning legs and a half decent tackling technique.
.

 

[cyclopath]

Hard to take you too seriously when he's in your avatar. Clearly something of a fan.

We shouldn't read too much into avatars.
I mean, your guy has no penis and I am a disembodied eye.
Just stirring you.

 

[fatprop]

Just because we aren't playing brilliantly it doesn't mean you start dishing out Wallaby caps to anyone with two functioning legs and a half decent tackling technique.
.

If they do, I am always available

 

[H...]

One of my pet hates in rugby selection debates is people who propose baseless left-field selections and then say "it worked with Larkham, so why shouldn't it work with Greg Holmes at 13?". Larkham was a freak, a one-off genius, and to expect a similar result with Mike Harris is insulting to Bernie IMO.
.

Jesus. Are you an American, or something? Fairly precious, there.

It's not insulting to Bernie, it's acknowledging that we are so far from where we need to be, and that the cost of experimenting is only that we might lose a game or two that we are going to do our best to lose anyway.

Listen, if Cooper was something close to mistake free, I wouldn't be open to him riding the pine for 40 minutes. I'm not terribly emotionally attached to his inclusion or any proposed exclusion. I just can't see the massive downside by trying something new.

What's the cost? That we lose a test or two? Well shit, have you been watching them play since 2003? We've been capable of dropping tests we should have won for ten fucking years. I hardly think Mike Harris is going to bring the 5 year grand plan of looking 6-shades-of-shit to a spot where it looks any worse than it does now.

 

[H...]

Just because we aren't playing brilliantly it doesn't mean you start dishing out Wallaby caps to anyone with two functioning legs and a half decent tackling technique.
.

I think we'd do well to have someone capable of the basics. The current bloke has forgotten how to kick for field position, and still gets bounced of tackle attempts (using that term liberally) multiple times a game.

I like Quade, but I also pine for someone who is capable of just getting the ball and getting rid of it, and kicking competently.

 

[Paddysboy]

I think it is funny the perception of Quade. Quade has a few tricks but is usually limited by those around him.

Quade's best attribute is finding a way to get the ball to the person with the best chance to break the line. He has an uncanny ability to conjure a pass that achieves this.

I liken Quade to a quarterback, but like the NFL he needs his teammates to act as Wide Receivers and Running Backs. From there he usually chooses the right person to get the ball to. When the other players run their pattern they have to be ready for the pass in any manner of ways (flick pass - even unnecessary ones, long cut-outs, short pops or the cross field kick) and they have to be committed 100%.

The thing that frustrates me is the lack of straight running in the Australian game plan. That is until McCabe came into the attack this weekend.

The Reds last year (2011) had multiple running options and were best placed with Ant F. or Taps running the short straight hard line. This held the defenders as did McCabe but the lines others ran on Saturday night were poor and caused us to creep across field allowing the defense to read the play more easily.

Quade also needs linemen to protect him and go forward. On the weekend I saw a great improvement in that area from our forwards, that is despite the best efforts of the courageous Argies.


I would agree that he is not playing well, but I would also argue that those around him are not fully executing their job to give that excitement in attack that we are all craving for.


I hate to say it but Quade's attacking attributes are looking more and more like they are better suited to league than rugby.

I tend to agree with most of this. Obviously QC (Quade Cooper) was sub-par, at least for the first half and did some pretty dumb things. While he's no genius for sure, he seems to have a pretty good rugby brain, or at least Link seems to think so. His couple of games back for the Wallabies have been odd. Naturally there are some game plans they play to, but unlike a lot of teams, they, or at least Deans and his Labrador seem incapable of switching to an alternate game plan as needed.

In the game against the Boks, QC (Quade Cooper) was quiet but didn't do much wrong and seemed relatively efficient. It was obvious Sookface had the kicking duties and proceeded to completely cock it up - which would have seen QC (Quade Cooper) dropped if it had been him. Then for this game, take away a ball playing nine and replace with a new guy who'll be intent on finding his feet first; put beale on the bench; and move your 12 to 15 and all of a sudden the only player the opposition knows has to run the plays is Quade. Naturally enough he gets pressured, starts crabbing and it all turns to custard. It was only when he started running to the line in the second half (I'm sure it wasn't my yelling at the telly that made him do it but it made me feel better) and Phipps found his feet and started to run a bit, that we looked better and opportunities came.

Basically QC (Quade Cooper) and Deans don't gel and if my coach was publicly bagging me after the game I'd be a bit peeved. The way I saw it, QC (Quade Cooper) was set up to fail and when he did, the coach makes comments that make it clear he might be on the outer. Always good for someone's confidence........... I'm not apologising for QC (Quade Cooper) as he did do a few things for which only he can be blamed and I'm not having a go a McCabe and TwoDads as 12 and 13, though I think we will always struggle without a ball playing 12.

I just think if you paint a target on a guy's forehead as the only playmaker, you might consider ways to help him, not hinder him. There's an inevitability that it will go pear-shaped, no matter who is the 10.

 

[Jiggles]

Harris wouldn't cut it in a full strength Reds backline and is probably 2nd or 3rd choice 12 after Taps and Lance, and 3rd 10 after Cooper and Lucas. He is very lucky to be in the squad.