2014 IRB Junior World Championship – New Zealand

[tranquility]

You could argue that the starting side is stronger in this match, then in the English game.

 

[an observer]

They would have to play England to compare. Regardless, let's hope they play well and get points on the board.

 

[qwerty51]

Wonder if Placid is injured or paid the price.

 

[Lee Grant]

I can't think of a player selected,where there are clearly 2 superior players in their primary position.
Think of it more like a Skelton v Jones scenario.
There are strong arguments for selecting either player,however Jones would be more suited on a tour like this,for fitness and versatility reasons.

Exactly - in fact Cameron Skelton is probably playing for Samoa now, and not Australia, partly for that reason.

He is a tighthead lock and nothing else. He may have missed out anyway but it would not have helped his cause.

I've seen L. Jones play 6, 8 and lock and he's the type of players they wanted - witness Ross Haylett-Petty and put ditto beside his name.
.

 

[rugby roo]

Just been advised its pouring in Auckland and surrounds and weather alerts for next few days.
Lets hope that doesnt stifle the boys point scoring ability.

 

[Braveheart81]

@Michael put in a post and said it was sarcastic.
I put in a post comparing them in 2 different games and that is hard in a team sport.
I didn't see the National Championships and i support Manly, but i haven't been critical of Pulver

I wasn't specifically having a go at you.

It was more around the fact that several people started claiming that Australia's chances were being ruined by dodgy selections and then the only player anyone could cite as being an excellent player who missed out was the Manly halfback Fabian Natoli and the only player identified as perhaps not warranting their spot was Angus Pulver.

When Pulver hasn't been the first choice halfback and in my opinion from our first two games has been of a similar standard to the starting halfback Joe Powell it's a bit unfair to criticise him.

I haven't seen enough of Natoli but if he's as good as people say he is, he must be our best under 20s half back. Given multiple people have been selected ahead of him, I can only assume the selectors didn't like what they saw and/or he didn't perform at the national championships.

 

[Dave Beat]

I wasn't specifically having a go at you.

I know, all good.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I was the one who may have started "it" re Pulver.


@Pstoe claimed at post #668 "After following this level of rugby for a number of years success for Australia is having boys from the right schools representing us, so we can stand in the old school bars and tell each other how well our schools have done. On a positive note, the CEO got his son in from 2XV Colts so can't all be bad. " and @redmond added to this at post #709: "I must agree although there are players out there who could contribute and be successful at that level. Unfortunately they play for the wrong club, have the wrong post code and attended the wrong school."

I challenged them to name a better halfback than Pulver, who was alleged to have got there on the basis of Dad's influence. ​

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In addition, @Brian Westlake offered the following suggestions:​

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1. Rory O'Connor - Would be out of his depth in a puddle. Put Tom Robertson in and he can play both sides of the scrum.​

2. Harry Scoble - At what stage the politics of State leave National. In Hooker You have to be able to scrummage and throw. He can't. Tevita Vea​

4. Tom Staniforth - Not fit. Put Dempsey in there and make him work.​

7. Rowan Perry - Again, how long can favour carry you through? Whilst in the Brumbies blanket he seems to have not developed ala Michael Hooper. Michael Gunn in a nutshell. Battle hardened from grade. Jack Johnson who is smaller than Perry, but faster, stronger over the ball and in the last couple of minutes of play would get the ball to the ground. Not get held up by an inside back.​

Should I speak about the backs?​

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The politics of player rotation etc means Jack Shit when you don't get through the pool​

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All of the alternates nominated by @Brian Westlake are already in the squad, less Jack Johnson.

So from all of U20 rugbydom, Natoli and Johnson have suffered from attending the wrong school, living in the wrong post code, or registering with the wrong club.

Didn't realise that Manly, Randwick, St Augustines (ISA) and Waverley (CAS) represented the wrong club, postcode or school.

 

[Lee Grant]

Jack Johnson and Fabian Natoli made the "NSW Colts" Under 20 team and competed in the nationals.

They didn't make it into the Aussie team, others did. It doesn't mean that the selectors thought they were bad players. All those of us who have been selectors at humble levels would know the margins are slim and you can never be sure that you made the right choice.

I don't think the Aussie selectors checked what school they went to. That is something for forum posters.

I have a sneaky suspicion that they wanted to pick the best players as they saw it it, not how others saw it.

If somebody saw the national championships in Canberra and states that he thought those two were better than the ones selected let him say so and why.

The national selection process this year has been the best ever but it doesn't mean that chosen players won't make blunders or disappoint in games they are selected for.

That's sport.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

I was the one who may have started "it" re Pulver.


@Pstoe claimed at post #668 "After following this level of rugby for a number of years success for Australia is having boys from the right schools representing us, so we can stand in the old school bars and tell each other how well our schools have done. On a positive note, the CEO got his son in from 2XV Colts so can't all be bad. " and @redmond added to this at post #709: "I must agree although there are players out there who could contribute and be successful at that level. Unfortunately they play for the wrong club, have the wrong post code and attended the wrong school."

I challenged them to name a better halfback than Pulver, who was alleged to have got there on the basis of Dad's influence. ​

​

​

​

In addition, @Brian Westlake offered the following suggestions:​

​

​

All of the alternates nominated by @Brian Westlake are already in the squad, less Jack Johnson.

So from all of U20 rugbydom, Natoli and Johnson have suffered from attending the wrong school, living in the wrong post code, or registering with the wrong club.

Didn't realise that Manly, Randwick, St Augustines (ISA) and Waverley (CAS) represented the wrong club, postcode or school.

I think your post asking people to put up or shut up regarding who missed out that shouldn't have was good.

It did bring out some responses that in my opinion further clarified that the selectors probably did a good job this year.

Citing that Pulver plays colts vs Natoli playing grade misses the point that the Shute Shield wasn't the selection competition. It was the national championships that both those players went to.

Brian Westlake suggesting players that were already part of the squad should be in the first choice side furthers the argument that the selectors did a good job and the right players were chosen. I find it hard to challenge the coaching team too heavily when they're the ones training the players and putting them through trial games to work out the team they want to select.

Criticising Rowan Perry also seemed a bit strange considering he has been one of our best players.

Moving the under 20s selections to a national championships where all the best players competed against each other seems the best thing they've done in years regarding selections.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Very ordinary looking conditions in Auckland.

Expect to see lots of field position, low risk rugby today.

 

[It is what it is]

Surely the ref could have worn an alternative top.

 

[Tiger]

Are we still able to make it through to the finals? If so, what do we need to do? (Bonus point win? A particular margin?)

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Ireland score a 4 try bonus point victory over Fiji - Score was 38 - 0.

They will make play offs as the top qualifier from the 2nd places in the Pool.

Their 3 Penalty Tries may be some sort of record. Fiji reduced to 12 players just before 1/2 time.

The Paddies have a BP from their loss to Les Frogge. NZ and AUS both failed to get the BP's for loss by <7 points and > 4 meat pies in their losses.

No hope for us now, as there is only 1 BP on offer if we win today.

We are in the 5th to 8th play offs, provided we beat the Azzuri today.

 

[JSRF10]

Discipline from the Fijians has been shocking, you blokes and the Kiwis would have been pulling your hair out if you'd been watching hoping for a favour from the Islanders.

 

[Braveheart81]

Are we still able to make it through to the finals? If so, what do we need to do? (Bonus point win? A particular margin?)

It would take a miracle.

We firstly need Wales to upset France and neither team to get bonus points out of the match and for us to beat Italy by about 25 more points than New Zealand beats Scotland.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

Ireland join SA and Eng are qualified then. Not a bad result in wet and sloppy conditions. Irelands scrum looking decent, but wow whatever inconsistency is to French rugby then ill discipline is the same to the Fijians. Didn't they a few games back have four sin bins in a game? Its even in their junior levels. Then again I suppose these yellows were just from being bested in the scrum.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That is like the odds of the Australian team making the finals in the old B&H World Series back in the day leading into the Perth Double header, when the English and Windies would be touring here. Sometimes we always seemed to make it.

I can't really see that happening today somehow.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

Are we still able to make it through to the finals? If so, what do we need to do? (Bonus point win? A particular margin?)

To be honest, the main game isnt the Ireland Fiji one it should be the Wales France one. If Aus hammer Italy and Wales beat France then Aus should be through.

 

[Braveheart81]

To be honest, the main game isnt the Ireland Fiji one it should be the Wales France one. If Aus hammer Italy and Wales beat France then Aus should be through.

Nope. We still have lots of for and against to claw back on New Zealand.