2016 Under-20 Rugby World Championships - Manchester UK

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ I don't think that this was a SANZAAR endorsed competition, despite the title of Super 20's.

It was an ARU initiative, and thus I would expect that ARU would determine what criteria are used to determine the positioning on the leaderboard, especially in the event of two or more teams finishing on the same amount of competition points.

There is a very clear indication of ARU thinking in the Competition Rules from the 2015 competition, which was a weekish long residential competition in Canberra, and not a FIFO 5 round non-residential competition. I;d be very surprised if the 2016 Competition Rules stated a different methodology for resolving a situation where two or more teams end up on the same number of competition points.

This view is supported by the fact that the ARU have published that Rebels are the team to take on QLD in the final.

 

[Seymour Butz]

Snip
This view is supported by the fact that the ARU have published that Rebels are the team to take on QLD in the final.

This outcome isn't in doubt.
All the very best of luck to the Rebels v Qld next Sunday. You'll need it, based on Saturday's performance v Brumbies.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I would be interested in seeing what the result would have been had the Super Rugby bonus points scoring been in effect. I just have a sneaking suspicion that maybe the Brumbies Colts would have run second. I am sure that a couple or more winning and losing bonus points for scoring four tries would disappear under the three more tries rule.

 

[Forcefield]

ForceField - don't be a dick. Nobody likes arrogance. Yes, The Force will be in the final v QLD. Everybody gets that. And The Force deserved to win over NSW - I've said that several times previously.

Rebels will be in the final. This has nothing to do with my state allegiance. The RWC and U20 RWC both work on a system of two teams tied on the leader board meaning that number of wins and then head to head are the differentiating criteria before points difference. Super Rugby works on number of wins before points difference.

I am sorry if other competitions work in different ways. But the fact is that NSW are not second except if you are looking at points difference. Which they are not. There is nothing arrogant except what you read into it.

 

[Happy to Chat]

ForceField - don't be a dick. Nobody likes arrogance. Yes, The Force will be in the final v QLD. Everybody gets that. And The Force deserved to win over NSW - I've said that several times previously.

But you need to acknowledge that when the official Leader Table set up for this comp is completed, NSW will indeed be in second place, based on the standard rules / criteria for most competitions (in NSW at least) and based on the criteria in the Leadership Table - which is competition points and then for and against differential. Leader table is here (still not updated with this weekend's results: http://www2.rugbylink.com.au/common...px?gradeid=22331_1&seasonid=97&entityid=30894.

Due to this comp following under 20s rules - and not standard rules for Super Rugby (which is the comp they are currently playing in) - the head to head factor actually overrules points difference when two teams are tied / equal second place, based on competition points.

End of story.!

May the Rebels be with you........

 

[Seymour Butz]

May the Rebels be with you....

Rebels, Rebel, Rebels. I mean Rebels! (Responding to ForceField threw me...)

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I would be interested in seeing what the result would have been had the Super Rugby bonus points scoring been in effect. I just have a sneaking suspicion that maybe the Brumbies Colts would have run second. I am sure that a couple or more winning and losing bonus points for scoring four tries would disappear under the three more tries rule.

According to this:

http://www2.rugbylink.com.au/common...px?gradeid=22331_1&seasonid=97&entityid=30894
the following BP were scored:
QLD R1 (v NSW - 4tBP), R2 (v WA - 4TBP), R3 (v ACT - 4TBP)
VIC R1 (v WA - 4TBP), R3 (v QLD- 4TBP losing team), R4 (v NSW - 4TBP)
NSW R2 (v ACT - 4TBP), R4 (v Vic - 4TBP losing team) R5 (v WA - 4TBP) [not yet on the website]
ACT R5 (v VIC- 4TBP) [not yet on the website]
WA R1 (v VIC - 4TBP + loss by <8 BP)

The only outright win by > 3 T (games won by >= 15 points) appear to have been ACT v VIC, QLD v NSW, & QLD v WA.

Therefore @Brumby Runner's revisionist view of history would see the Young Ponies in second place on Competition points. However the rules were that 4 tries earned a BP. If the rules were different, who is to say that teams like NSW (v ACT) wouldn't have put the cue in the rack when they obtained their 4TBP and they may have worked a little harder to maintain a 3T "gap", or VIC (v ACT) may not have played so poorly when they knew that they were already through to the Final under the existing rules regardless of the results of the R5 games.

If Aunty Doris had balls ...... ...... ..... ... ... ...

We should be rejoicing that there may be genuine competition for many Wallaby slots, from players across all states, in about 5 years time as this cohort ages and steps up into Pro and International ranks. Instead we have folk quibbling about eligibility for petty trinkets.

Congratulations to all the players that participated in the Inaugural Curtain Raiser Cup. They will return to clubland better players for their experiences, with most putting in around 6 months tough preparation for this competition while their mates have enjoyed a traditional lazy Australian Summer. Good luck at the National selectors table.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Thank you HJ. And to be clear, I was not raising this as an issue to argue that the Colts should be there, but just to try to get some clarity for those Tahs' supporters who are bemoaning the fact that the rules were different to those played in Super Rugby. Had that been the case, the Gen Blue would still have failed to progress, assuming the results were the same. So hopefully, some of them will now JSTFU.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Western Force Under 20s have gone down to NSW Gen Blue 20s 28-23 in their final match of the inaugural Super 20s competition in a hard fought contest at Harvey Field this evening.

- See more at: https://www.westernforce.com.au/art...er-20s-fall-gen-blue-20s#sthash.A7EUAzHc.dpuf

NSW U20 were scheduled to play:
R1 v Qld at the SFS. They played in the Car Park at Kippax Oval instead.
R2 v ACT at Bruce Stadium. This happened as planned.
R4 v Vic at Sydney University No2 Oval. They played on a cow paddock (St John's College Oval) instead.
R5 v WA at McGillivray Oval UWA (Perth Spirit NRC Home ground). They played on Cottesloe Rugby Club's home ground (Harvey Field) instead.

They played one curtain raiser in one stadium, one game happened before a Super Rugby game in a nearby location, one game was played on a Premier Rugby Club oval, and one game took place on an oval best described as a picturesque suburban park.

The venues for the other games were:
NIB Stadium, Perth; Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane (2); & AAMI Park, Melbourne (2);

The standard of play from the NSW team seemed to match the standard of the ovals.

 

[Bismarck]

Don't want to upset anyone but here it is.....

http://www.rugbylink.com.au/common/...px?gradeid=22331_1&seasonid=97&entityid=30894

Pyrrhic victory Seymour Butz

Bring on season 2017

 

[Seymour Butz]

But the fact is that NSW are not second except if you are looking at points difference. Which they are not.

I don't think you get it Silverado. NSW arent second. End of story.

You don't understand. They coulda finished second. They coulda been contenders. They coulda been somebodies, instead of just third.​

NSW finished third, lads.

They finished second but didn't make the final because they lost to the third placed team. I'm happy with that if you are.

Don't want to upset anyone but here it is...

http://www.rugbylink.com.au/common/...px?gradeid=22331_1&seasonid=97&entityid=30894

Pyrrhic victory Seymour Butz

Bring on season 2017

Good luck to Queensland and Victoria in the final on Sunday. May the best team win.

End of story.

 

[Silverado]

^^^
That's all I was saying. NSW finished second, Rebels finished 3rd, but go through because the finished on same points and won head to head. I'm fine with that in accordance to the rules. Good luck Rebels


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Time for Rule 10 on the U20 Leaderboard.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/welcome-to-g-gr-history-and-rules.7341/


There is a Curtain Raiser Cup Final to wang on about, as well as the Selections for the Aust and NZ Teams, (and the Kiwi preparations) not to mention the Oceania Tournament in Early May.

 

[Seymour Butz]

Time for Rule 10 on the U20 Leaderboard.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/welcome-to-g-gr-history-and-rules.7341/

I like rule 10. and happy to oblige.

I also like the follow-up warning (though realise this might well apply to me in the eyes of some....)

 

[Seymour Butz]

There is a Curtain Raiser Cup Final to wang on about... [snip]

Noting your earlier post, HJ, maybe we should call it the Cow Paddock Cup.

R4 v Vic at Sydney University No2 Oval. They played on a cow paddock (St John's College Oval) instead.

 

[Linespeed]

Aus seems to be lagging behind:

allblacks.com 11 Mar 2016
New Zealand Under 20 hopefuls in trial camp : Forty nine players have assembled for a trial camp in Palmerston North as selectors narrow their search for the next New Zealand Under 20 squad to defend their World Championship title

Returning from the 2015 NZu20s are two Forwards in Dalzell/Jacobsen & one Back in Levien (rehab)

The squad is listed here:
http://www.allblacks.com/News/28883/new-zealand-under-20-hopefuls-in-trial-camp

Also Jnr Boks are on the go:

Junior Springboks set for U20 Championship trials
South Africa have started preparations for their assault on the World Rugby U20 Championship title with 56 players chosen for a trial camp in Cape Town.

Three bronze medal winners from last year’s World Rugby U20 Championship, JT Jackson, Tinus (Wez) de Beer and Marco Jansen van Vuren, are among a group of 56 players invited to a Junior Springbok trials camp in Cape Town next week.

Jackson, De Beer (both Blue Bulls) and Jansen van Vuren (Golden Lions) were part of the 2015 squad which helped the Junior Springboks to third place at the U20 tournament in Italy.

The group will assemble in Cape Town on Tuesday, 29 March and will spend almost a week at a training camp before the squad will be trimmed.


http://www.worldrugby.org/u20/news/148414

Geez these guys look enormous.

 

[Highlander35]

Those are damn big squads though. I'd expect there to be no more than 35 plus any held back by Super Sides in the Joeys, the Curtain Raiser Cup having served as trials.

 

[TOCC]

Aus seems to be lagging behind:
.

Is a 49player trial camp really better then a 5 team round robin tournament?

A big problem for Australia in the past is that the players simply aren't playing enough rugby at a competitive level, also they have been selected on high school reputations since their was no clear development pathway for them to be tested and earn selection.

I think a tournament is a far better way to earn selection and identify the players for higher honours.

 

[Happy to Chat]

I'm sure Thomo has already his side on paper, it will just be a matter of combining them in a camp or two for the Oceania games in May. As mentioned by TOCC he has had a good opportunity to select each position carefully during the tournament (we hope). Albeit a young side there is some good talent to work with.

 

[GPS Fantastic]

Does anyone know how many will be included in the initial squad, the majority will no doubt be from QLD, but it would be interesting to know the split across the 5 teams