2017 Under-20 Competitions including Oceania & World U20s

[amirite]

"The door is still open for players in the Super U20s Championship as we are always watching and looking for players who will suit the way we want to play the game.”

for those not selected dont tear up your tickets
this is also part of the list published by the coach

Haha, standard coach speak. There's 0-2 left games and they've played 3-4 games already.

Barring injury, is there really a surprise coming?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What is that? I presume you mean danger to performance and not literal danger, but as an example Kennewell is 95kg and played U20s last year (I think just the warm-up games). He isn't too small, and he won't have forgotten how to play XVs in the space of months.

I can tell you the South African U20s squad do the same thing with their 7s boys, and they're generally excellent at 7s and U20s.

Like the Super Rugby contracted players, the 7s boys will probably only attend the second training camp. At this training camp, they'll have to perform and warrant their spot. Still, it's not dangerous.

The danger is we'll do as badly in this comp as we have in the last several.
I think the later you bring them back the more dangerous it is.
I don't know if you've noticed but they are games which demand very different physical attributes and philosophies.
I'd test it this way: which of the 6 nations u20 sides will have a swag of their 7s in their squads?
Hos many do NZ have?

 

[lightning rod]

It wouldn't be a surprise then

 

[Happy to Chat]

Congrats to all the Qld players who made the squad, all but 1 player 14/15 in their 1st XV that played on Saturday. Commiserations to a hard playing Sam Edwards. Count yourself unlucky mate.


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[Blazing Saddles]

Why you would name a team before the end of Super 20s, I do not know.

Logically, I'm going to presume all Super Rugby and 7s contacted players are a good chance to start (being the full timers), so a quick look at our XV is:

1.
2. Jordan Uelsese
3. Shambeckler Vui
4. Ryan McCauley
5.
6. Rob Valetini
7. Angus Scott-Young
8. Rob Leota
9. Ryan Lonergan/Tate McDermott
10. Nick Jooste
11. Henry Hutchinson/Semisi Tupou
12. Sione Tuipulotu
13. Izaia Perese/Dylan Riley/Simon Kennewell
14. Liam McNamara
15. Jack Maddocks/Jayden Ngamanu

Why would you have McCauley in there at all? Despite being the next big thing has been sadly outplayed in all games this year (even by Piroddi who i feel sorry for in a way missing out). The fallacy around having tall timber to win line outs was put to rest by the Queensland team on the weekend who showed a lot more vigor to completely outplay the tight five across the park. Might sound harsh but sometimes we need to take the blinkers off , just because a schoolboy prodigy gets a contract straight out of school does not always convert into the best option in 2 years time.
Maybe a season back in club rugby will sharpen his skills up and develop the player for the tough physical battles.
All that is wrong about Australian rugby. Food for thought.

 

[amirite]

The danger is we'll do as badly in this comp as we have in the last several.
I think the later you bring them back the more dangerous it is.
I don't know if you've noticed but they are games which demand very different physical attributes and philosophies.
I'd test it this way: which of the 6 nations u20 sides will have a swag of their 7s in their squads?
Hos many do NZ have?

I've address all of these points in my previous post.

1. Obviously the players have to earn their spots.
2. The games do demand different attributes and philosophies.
   • Some of the players may be too small to play XVs (Coward is probably an example), but not all of them (Kennewell is big and McDermott can get away with it at 9).
   • Nobody will completely forget how to play XVs in a matter of months. It just won't happen. These players all played majority XVs last year.
   • If they have forgotten how to play XVs (and nothing in the history of players switching between the codes suggests this will be the case), then do not pick them.
   • This is a preliminary squad, and these boys are being looked at on their merits.
3. We are not New Zealand, we do not have their depth. There is much we can pull from their system, but we aren't the same. To not look at these players in camp would be ludicrous.

Why would you have McCauley in there at all? Despite being the next big thing has been sadly outplayed in all games this year (even by Piroddi who i feel sorry for in a way missing out). The fallacy around having tall timber to win line outs was put to rest by the Queensland team on the weekend who showed a lot more vigor to completely outplay the tight five across the park. Might sound harsh but sometimes we need to take the blinkers off , just because a schoolboy prodigy gets a contract straight out of school does not always convert into the best option in 2 years time.
Maybe a season back in club rugby will sharpen his skills up and develop the player for the tough physical battles.
All that is wrong about Australian rugby. Food for thought.

It says in the post "I'm going to presume all Super Rugby and 7s contacted players are a good chance to start (being the full timers)". It's not my opinion.

As an aside, do you really think a season in club football would be better for McCauley's development than playing XVs?

I'm quite surprised they didn't look at Emmanuel Latu-Meafou, he's a big man of some talent. Probably doesn't suit Cron's playing philosophies I guess.

 

[Blazing Saddles]

[q

As an aside, do you really think a season in club football would be better for McCauley's development than playing XVs?

[/quote]

In the last 2 years he has played bugger all rugby at all. Lots of training with the Tahs EPS , however not a lot of game time elsewhere. Just thought it would help him hone his skills in true game conditions...

 

[Happy to Chat]

I do agree with your sentiments Amirite, no positions should be walk in's, everyone should earn their spot and I guess that's the reason for the training camps but for me if they are not able to attend at least one of the training camps/ prep week Oceania Cup, they should not be eligible for inclusion as they will not have proven their abilities as part of the team. Last year players were dropped in at the last minute and constant position changers just to keep a player in the team and it didn't really work. Case in point Magnay, Kenewell, Jurd, Jooste, Tuipolotu. Game to game none of them knew who was going to play 11,12,13,or 14. We had the forwards but the backline was lacking in depth and stable structure.


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[Braveheart81]

Haha, standard coach speak. There's 0-2 left games and they've played 3-4 games already.

Barring injury, is there really a surprise coming?

It depends how many players are going to be invited to the camp in total.

If there is the plan to invite more than 48 then it is certainly a valid statement.

Putting most of the names out there now gives an opportunity for the coach to speak to the players and let them know what he needs them to work on etc.

With Australia having such limited preparation time as a squad I think it is necessary to do some of it off the field when the squad isn't together.

 

[amirite]

In the last 2 years he has played bugger all rugby at all. Lots of training with the Tahs EPS , however not a lot of game time elsewhere. Just thought it would help him hone his skills in true game conditions.

He played NRC and this U20s comp.

I definitely do not think club rugby is preferably to playing the best age group players in the world in a professional environment.

 

[amirite]

It depends how many players are going to be invited to the camp in total.

If there is the plan to invite more than 48 then it is certainly a valid statement.

Putting most of the names out there now gives an opportunity for the coach to speak to the players and let them know what he needs them to work on etc.

With Australia having such limited preparation time as a squad I think it is necessary to do some of it off the field when the squad isn't together.

You're not wrong, but nothing really gives me that impression.

 

[amirite]

I do agree with your sentiments Amirite, no positions should be walk in's, everyone should earn their spot and I guess that's the reason for the training camps but for me if they are not able to attend at least one of the training camps/ prep week Oceania Cup, they should not be eligible for inclusion as they will not have proven their abilities as part of the team. Last year players were dropped in at the last minute and constant position changers just to keep a player in the team and it didn't really work. Case in point Magnay, Kenewell, Jurd, Jooste, Tuipolotu. Game to game none of them knew who was going to play 11,12,13,or 14. We had the forwards but the backline was lacking in depth and stable structure.


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I think the reasoning behind this is that the fully professional players (7s and Super) get professional level conditioning and skills coaching day-to-day, those outside of those structures do not.

The earlier camps give those non-contracted players access to that professional environment, while conveniently also allowing the Super and 7s sides to play them. It's a win-win.

I agree that position management in the back line last year was poor, but I don't think that was because guys were added in at the latter camp. If you've got a contract you're basically assured of going on the plane. It's that simple. The U20 coaches can get skype you or fly you up for the day whenever. There's no excuse for bad comms.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It's a bit surprising (to me at least) that Jamie Kotz missed a spot in the squad. Electric speed, good finisher, good defender and goal kicker to boot. Would be a handy inclusion.

 

[Happy to Chat]

I think the reasoning behind this is that the fully professional players (7s and Super) get professional level conditioning and skills coaching day-to-day, those outside of those structures do not.

The earlier camps give those non-contracted players access to that professional environment, while conveniently also allowing the Super and 7s sides to play them. It's a win-win.

I agree that position management in the back line last year was poor, but I don't think that was because guys were added in at the latter camp. If you've got a contract you're basically assured of going on the plane. It's that simple. The U20 coaches can get skype you or fly you up for the day whenever. There's no excuse for bad comms.

I beg to differ that a contract assures you a plane ticket. It is a privilege that should be earned and not a right. Are you saying that because Young Tate McDermott has a 7's contract he is guaranteed a place? The last XV's game he played was schoolboys likewise Semisi Tupou (Rebels) is purported to have a contract, is he assured of a ticket?
The fact that all the boys are invited to the camp should be neutral ground and the attitude should be if you don't stack up to the next guy, you're out, contract or no contract and if your franchise or code cannot afford to let you attend at least one camp, then the selectors should pick the next in line.
On another topic, it took Henry Speight some time to adjust to XV after his spell at 7's?

 

[Blazing Saddles]

I beg to differ that a contract assures you a plane ticket. It is a privilege that should be earned and not a right. Are you saying that because Young Tate McDermott has a 7's contract he is guaranteed a place? The last XV's game he played was schoolboys likewise Semisi Tupou (Rebels) is purported to have a contract, is he assured of a ticket?
The fact that all the boys are invited to the camp should be neutral ground and the attitude should be if you don't stack up to the next guy, you're out, contract or no contract and if your franchise or code cannot afford to let you attend at least one camp, then the selectors should pick the next in line.
On another topic, it took Henry Speight some time to adjust to XV after his spell at 7's?

Absolutely agree, select on form not reputation.

 

[sarcophilus]

Absolutely agree, select on form not reputation.

that wont work

 

[Happy to Chat]

Qld squad named to take on the Brumbies this weekend in Canberra.

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[amirite]

I beg to differ that a contract assures you a plane ticket. It is a privilege that should be earned and not a right. Are you saying that because Young Tate McDermott has a 7's contract he is guaranteed a place? The last XV's game he played was schoolboys likewise Semisi Tupou (Rebels) is purported to have a contract, is he assured of a ticket?
The fact that all the boys are invited to the camp should be neutral ground and the attitude should be if you don't stack up to the next guy, you're out, contract or no contract and if your franchise or code cannot afford to let you attend at least one camp, then the selectors should pick the next in line.
On another topic, it took Henry Speight some time to adjust to XV after his spell at 7's?

Of course, mate. I never said a contract assures you of anything, but the core of our U20 squad will likely be contracted players, particularly Super Rugby ones.

Henry Speight played fine XVs around his 7s commitments. Do you remember otherwise?

Sometimes I feel like people don't read comments, they just see what they want and react to it.

 

[The sage]

The award Sage gave you may be the only thing you win with those scores.


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That's a bit rough HTC but probably true

 

[The sage]

Why you would name a team before the end of Super 20s, I do not know.

Logically, I'm going to presume all Super Rugby and 7s contacted players are a good chance to start (being the full timers), so a quick look at our XV is:

1.
2. Jordan Uelsese
3. Shambeckler Vui
4. Ryan McCauley
5.
6. Rob Valetini
7. Angus Scott-Young
8. Rob Leota
9. Ryan Lonergan/Tate McDermott
10. Nick Jooste
11. Henry Hutchinson/Semisi Tupou
12. Sione Tuipulotu
13. Izaia Perese/Dylan Riley/Simon Kennewell
14. Liam McNamara
15. Jack Maddocks/Jayden Ngamanu

I reckon just doing this would be a recipe for another mediocre performance. Based on what we have seen this far IMO McCauley, Lonegran and Jooste have a few in front of them.

Still think AS-Y in the wrong position and not convinced on the 7's players yet. HTC was correct for last year, it seemed disjointed. I sure the 7's guys are good but if I had to choose between the above 13's I would think the first two would be adequate for the teams needs.

Don't necessarily think the 2 & 3 are lay down misere's. Haven't seen much of the Melbourne Rebels crew. Have they been getting much time in the games??

Perese has impressed and Liam McNamara has been just about every position in the back line from 12 onwards but has he lost his speciality??