2018 schools rowing

[bigmac]

Happy to wade into this discussion, however I would like to avoid the trolling of last year if possible. I can give a little insight into Kings program which may have affected our performance of late- and will certainly affect our future. Over the past decade, year 10 have been heavily involved in term 4 exchanges. Rowers tend to be selected- every member of my 2014 year 10 8 went- so transition into seniors has been less than ideal.

That program has ceased.

This year, we had the biggest senior squad for years, with many year 11s. Because a number of good oarsmen returned to the shed with no term 4 miles under their belt, making the eights became difficult for them. Hence we produced some good Four results. Next year, although there is a rugby tour, there will be no exchanges- and that will make a big do

New headmaster at kings new regime in place?

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[Andrew B Cox]

New Head starts July 1. His son Zac rowed in the third four at HOR. First year in a boat!

 

[Andrew B Cox]

Yes. And also groups at Mosman as well as other clubs and sheds across town. We have lots of boys wanting to continue through winter

 

[Andrew B Cox]

King's adhere to the GPS Code of Conduct that states that boys should play a summer and winter sport. The boys training over winter do so of their own volition. Importantly, those competing in the top teams (1st and 2nd Rugby and Football) do not row in winter. Likewise, Rowers in the 1st and 2nd VIII do not train with their football codes in summer.

 

[RowRowRow]

IV the Win what is truly curious is why you think Joeys/Scots will be on the podium next year, Joeys have some truly disappointing results coming through, and Scots, well, lets face it, Scots haven't had a good first eight since 2012, even the 2015 eight was more luck than anything else to take 2nd. I don't see either of these sheds rising up next year.

"Joeys have some truly disappointing results" - didn't realise the 1st VIII having 1st, 3rd, 3rd over the last 3yrs was so terrible. Not to mention a 2nd & 3rd for the 2nd VIII over the last two seasons. The Jnr VIIIs were disappointing, but looking to the Year 9 results there is strength.

 

[LuvToRo]

Interesting to hear that they are going to Henley. Its really hard to say how well they will go. The competition can be pretty stiff in the likes of Eton, St Pauls, Abingdon and Westminster but i think they have every chance of doing well. Shore did manage to beat Scotch earlier in the year as well as in the heat at the Nationals so it will be interesting to see how good they actually are.

Kings are definitely due for some good results sometime soon. I have to back them to be on the podium this year after a very surprising win in the junior 8, some good depth in the fours and a program that has been rethought.

The reality is that with the current coaches at Shore you have a higher than 70% chance of winning the 1st VIII if you are in that crew. If anyone is going to beat Shore this next season they are going to have work extremely hard consistently throughout the season. Not to mention also get over a massive mental barrier of the so called "Shorewash".

Looking forward to a good season already LTR.

 

[IV The Win]

As much as I love to try and scout out potential in other schools, it's seems that once again Shore's biggest opponent will be themselves. Correct me if I'm wrong but since 2015 it seems as if Shore does a botched sacrifice on Friday night of one of their 1st eight rowers because they get to the starting line at HOTR half dead. On the other hand, Riverviews sacrifice seems to go off without a hitch in the past two years. Anyone know what happens in either of the sheds?

 

[upthereds#!]

Shore boys have been encouraged to participate in Cross Country over Rugby this year. Newington is still driving their recruitment streak of regional rowers who did well @ SB Head of the River & Nationals.

 

[LuvToRo]

Very few people would of discovered the regional rowers coming in from Kinross in particular if Newington had raced by the AAGPS by laws of not being able enter those particular athletes until the new school year has begun. Instead they effectively got regional rowers who weren't attending Newington and gave them a Newington unisuit. Its the same reason why they do well at SB HOTR where there a multiple divisions and levels of events and like Kinross they just enter every event they think they can win with the best possible rowers not being concerned about age difference or ability. Only about winning and making themselves look good to get more enrolments in the school and therefore more money. Whether or not they know they doing this, they are teaching the athletes that cheating is basically okay. Why they cant just row by the rules like Joeys, Riverview, Scots, Shore, Kings, High (notice i left out Grammar) i have no idea.
LTR

 

[upthereds#!]

Their new director just came in from Kinross and brought a couple of the best kids with him, wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't look at the AAGPS fineprint.

 

[GentlyDownTheStream]

Shore boys have been encouraged to participate in Cross Country over Rugby this year. Newington is still driving their recruitment streak of regional rowers who did well @ SB Head of the River & Nationals.

Correct me if I'm wrong but since 2015 it seems as if Shore does a botched sacrifice on Friday night of one of their 1st eight rowers because they get to the starting line at HOTR half dead. On the other hand, Riverviews sacrifice seems to go off without a hitch in the past two years.

Very few people would of discovered the regional rowers coming in from Kinross in particular if Newington had raced by the AAGPS by laws of not being able enter those particular athletes until the new school year has begun. Instead they effectively got regional rowers who weren't attending Newington and gave them a Newington unisuit.

Whether or not they know they doing this, they are teaching the athletes that cheating is basically okay. Why they cant just row by the rules like Joeys, Riverview, Scots, Shore, Kings, High (notice i left out Grammar) i have no idea.
LTR

Could each of you please try to substantiate these claims? Specifically, the Riverview/Shore substituting issue, the AAGPS by-laws relating to new students, Grammar's malpractice and Shore's deterring of rowers from playing rugby. Some of these statements have a lot of weight and shouldn't be made unfounded.

-GDTS

 

[upthereds#!]

Could each of you please try to substantiate these claims? Specifically, the Riverview/Shore substituting issue, the AAGPS by-laws relating to new students, Grammar's malpractice and Shore's deterring of rowers from playing rugby. Some of these statements have a lot of weight and shouldn't be made unfounded.

-GDTS

coaches encourage athletes to do specific sports in the off season all the time. I doubt Shore or any school would enforce a student participate in particular sport, but that doesn't mean the coach wouldn't say, I think the best thing for your rowing in the off season would be to participate in cross country for fitness. In the Melbourne APS (GPS equiv), sport is mandatory, so all the top AFL kids play inter-school lawn bowls as their summer sport because their AFL clubs tell them that if they HAVE to do a different sport, do one that will impact as little as possible on their AFL aspirations.....yes. Lawn bowls as a GPS sport, along with ping pong and badmington.

And no, Rowing is a small world, there is no way I would write on here a specific source.

And deterring from one sport, eg " don't play rugby " is substantially different to encouraging another eg " I suggest Cross Country"

 

[Remember 2011]

Hello to everyone in the forum, after a couple of years of watching the shenanigans that go on I've finally decided to join in myself.

I can report that Grammar is undergoing a MAJOR shakeup this off season, with the old headmaster leaving at the end of last term. The long-overdue departure of Dr Vallance means that there is finally a change for the better. Indeed there is a movement amongst the rowers this year to MAKE GRAMMAR GREAT AGAIN. As such not only has the school made major changes to the coaching and training arrangements (a "Rowing Professional" is being hired to oversee a new training program and the pointless afternoon sessions will be abolished on favor of a series of morning sessions), but from what I can tell as a very junior coach at the shed, is that the boys are finally motivating themselves as well. From what i know a total of 17 boys are engaged in winter programs at clubs with 8 of the best doing the winter program at SRC this year. Further I noted that contrary to the dire predictions of other members of the Forum, there are good signs already. The two members returning from last year's first viii seem to be pretty good, with one in the NSW pathway VIII (Yes I know that isn't a groundbreaking achievement, but its still pretty good) and the other was in the B final for the schoolboy scull at nationals. Further another 4 of their rowers r returning from injuries that occurred last season which will bring them into good form. Also, a season of training at SRC (The National Champion club at SIRR this year) will put them back into contention and instill the competitive mentality.

So, I know none of the pundits and the experts in this forum are gonna agree - in fact they might laugh now - but I predict Grammar is gonna win and they're gonna win BIG.

Just wait til HOTR

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So, I know none of the pundits and the experts in this forum are gonna agree - in fact they might laugh now - but I predict Grammar is gonna win and they're gonna win BIG.

Just wait til HOTR

You started well but you lost me with this.
I listened to it for 32 years between drinks.
Just do your job and let the results speak for themselves.

 

[Remember 2011]

You started well but you lost me with this.
I listened to it for 32 years between drinks.
Just do your job and let the results speak for themselves.

No I disagree. Its time for the mentality to change, and I'm excited it finally is. When I was at school the expectation was not "are we gonna win?" but "how close will we get to 6th?". Its time to start setting high expectations again. We have the potential to beat other schools, but for a long time, the Grammar Sport department has been riddled with incompetence, due to the fact no-one cared when we came 7th. This year we again HAD NO FOURS. That was because no one cared about rowing, not even many of the people in the top crews. Music lessons e.c.t took priority. But now that's changed there's nothing to stop them from winning this year. And I for one am gonna back em the whole way, and if you don't set high standards from the start, then the crew will be doomed to under-perform as it has so often.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

No I disagree. Its time for the mentality to change, and I'm excited it finally is. When I was at school the expectation was not "are we gonna win?" but "how close will we get to 6th?". Its time to start setting high expectations again. We have the potential to beat other schools, but for a long time, the Grammar Sport department has been riddled with incompetence, due to the fact no-one cared when we came 7th. This year we again HAD NO FOURS. That was because no one cared about rowing, not even many of the people in the top crews. Music lessons e.c.t took priority. But now that's changed there's nothing to stop them from winning this year. And I for one am gonna back em the whole way, and if you don't set high standards from the start, then the crew will be doomed to under-perform as it has so often.

You're young.
You'll learn.
The bolded bit is the first hurdle - but I wish you luck: as AJ Foyt (or Seneca if you're at SGS) said "Luck is where opportunity meets preparation".
Someone else said that "the harder I train the luckier I get".

 

[Remember 2011]

You're young.
You'll learn.
The bolded bit is the first hurdle - but I wish you luck: as AJ Foyt (or Seneca if you're at SGS) said "Luck is where opportunity meets preparation".
Someone else said that "the harder I train the luckier I get".

Ahahahah very true. Ah well just wait and see, I think the results will surprise you.

 

[LuvToRo]

No I disagree. Its time for the mentality to change, and I'm excited it finally is. When I was at school the expectation was not "are we gonna win?" but "how close will we get to 6th?". Its time to start setting high expectations again. We have the potential to beat other schools, but for a long time, the Grammar Sport department has been riddled with incompetence, due to the fact no-one cared when we came 7th. This year we again HAD NO FOURS. That was because no one cared about rowing, not even many of the people in the top crews. Music lessons e.c.t took priority. But now that's changed there's nothing to stop them from winning this year. And I for one am gonna back em the whole way, and if you don't set high standards from the start, then the crew will be doomed to under-perform as it has so often.

I have a question for our new Grammar acquaintance. Will Grammar resort to cheating at HOTR again this coming season by rowing no fours but a 3rd VIII?
So lets not start on the whole having no fours plea. Because that was just about the cheapest, hollowest victory i had ever seen in the 3rd VIII at HOTR.
You're also going to need a lot more than high expectations to beat the crew in the adjacent boat shed, possibly some more dirty tactics such as jumping on the "Scholarship" bandwagon.

 

[GentlyDownTheStream]

Hello to everyone in the forum, after a couple of years of watching the shenanigans that go on I've finally decided to join in myself.

I can report that Grammar is undergoing a MAJOR shakeup this off season, with the old headmaster leaving at the end of last term. The long-overdue departure of Dr Vallance means that there is finally a change for the better. Indeed there is a movement amongst the rowers this year to MAKE GRAMMAR GREAT AGAIN. As such not only has the school made major changes to the coaching and training arrangements (a "Rowing Professional" is being hired to oversee a new training program and the pointless afternoon sessions will be abolished on favor of a series of morning sessions), but from what I can tell as a very junior coach at the shed, is that the boys are finally motivating themselves as well. From what i know a total of 17 boys are engaged in winter programs at clubs with 8 of the best doing the winter program at SRC this year. Further I noted that contrary to the dire predictions of other members of the Forum, there are good signs already. The two members returning from last year's first viii seem to be pretty good, with one in the NSW pathway VIII (Yes I know that isn't a groundbreaking achievement, but its still pretty good) and the other was in the B final for the schoolboy scull at nationals. Further another 4 of their rowers r returning from injuries that occurred last season which will bring them into good form. Also, a season of training at SRC (The National Champion club at SIRR this year) will put them back into contention and instill the competitive mentality.

So, I know none of the pundits and the experts in this forum are gonna agree - in fact they might laugh now - but I predict Grammar is gonna win and they're gonna win BIG.

Just wait til HOTR

I admire your optimism and agree that Grammar was legendary in 2011, but it's naive to think that a shed can turn around this quickly. I don't doubt that with the right leadership Grammar may be in contention three or four years down the track. But let's be realistic:

In 2010, Grammar raced all senior races down to the 3rd VIII and their 1st VIII placed 2nd. In 2011, again they raced all senior races, and their 1st VIII won against a very tight top 5 - meaning there were no exceptional outliers (think Joeys 2015 or recent Shore junior VIIIs).

Contrast this to 2017: They raced 3 senior VIIIs and 1 junior VIII. The 1st VIII, 2nd VIII and only junior VIII all placed 7th. They will have even less senior rowers this coming season than they did in 2017.

I do not mean to laugh at you. Rather, I am stating the facts as they are. The 2011 crew had a solid platform from the year before and beatable competition - add in a dash of grit (and maybe luck) and they pulled it off. This year, none of these factors are in their favour and Kings, Riverview and Scots are hungry and capable.

If the cultural shift you speak of is really going to make a difference, it will take time. I would love to be proven wrong this season, but the odds are ever so heavily against you.

-GDTS

 

[bigmac]

I admire your optimism and agree that Grammar was legendary in 2011, but it's naive to think that a shed can turn around this quickly. I don't doubt that with the right leadership Grammar may be in contention three or four years down the track. But let's be realistic:

In 2010, Grammar raced all senior races down to the 3rd VIII and their 1st VIII placed 2nd. In 2011, again they raced all senior races, and their 1st VIII won against a very tight top 5 - meaning there were no exceptional outliers (think Joeys 2015 or recent Shore junior VIIIs).

Contrast this to 2017: They raced 3 senior VIIIs and 1 junior VIII. The 1st VIII, 2nd VIII and only junior VIII all placed 7th. They will have even less senior rowers this coming season than they did in 2017.

I do not mean to laugh at you. Rather, I am stating the facts as they are. The 2011 crew had a solid platform from the year before and beatable competition - add in a dash of grit (and maybe luck) and they pulled it off. This year, none of these factors are in their favour and Kings, Riverview and Scots are hungry and capable.

If the cultural shift you speak of is really going to make a difference, it will take time. I would love to be proven wrong this season, but the odds are ever so heavily against you.

-GDTS

Agree that changes are likely to be incremental. I saw changes between 92 and 93 seasons at sgs that were due to new coaches culture etc but we had some reasonable talent as well.

Numbers at sgs are way down and that is a fundamental problem that cannt be overcome overnight.

All the best for 17 18 season.


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