Sir Arthur Higgins
Alan Cameron (40)
Good viewing and audio here.
2022 Bledisloe Cup. Wallabies vs All Blacks
- Thread starter Dismal Pillock
- Start date
- Status
Good viewing and audio here.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
The great Colin Meads trying to rip Ken Catchpole in two springs to mind. Worst thing I have ever seen.
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
Pretty sure thats exactly what he did. It's an unprecedented call but Foley, and the forwards, are certainly culpable too.
gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
Preface: I still think Foley had every chance to do what the referee said and kick it out - so at the end of teh day - all on him.
There are three things that really irk me about the decision the referee took.
1. The choice of moment to choose to enforce a law that everyone is struggling to recall ever being enforced. Weird.
2. The refree had recognised the time wasting and taken it out of the equation when he called time off. Once time was off, there is no time wasting. Foley didn't call time on, the All Blacks didn't call time on. Unless the referee really had somewhere else to be or the tortoise was sticking it's head out, the decision by him to call time on and then overturn the penalty is therefore not about time wasting (he controls the time now) - it is about making a point. I have never paid money to watch a referee make a statement.
3. Including the time off there was 46 seconds elapsed from when he blew the whistle to when he overturned the penalty. That includes the time the players got themselves off the ground, him standing in front of everyone (effectively stopping the kick) while he explained his ruling in awarding the penalty to the Australians. Immediately afterwards he proceeded to allow the same length of time to be taken for the two packs to mingle around, crouch down, stare at some grass, and marvel at the uniformity of grass length before the ball is actually fed in. That's is *excluding* the time off where he and the australians argued over the decision. He not once hurries the players up, he does not make any effort to consider the "fair play" he is talking about to Nic after the match. Unless there is an amazing intercept he is effectively letting the time run down to give New Zealand the only remaining scoring opportunity conveniently right on the wallaby tryline. It's not about time wasting.
Bonus effort on his part - he rules a penalty advantage for offside in the ensuing ruck when there was no offside by any Australian - in fact they were well behind the offside line for fear of giving a penalty away. That one was just another one of the opportunities for him to show that he knew what the Laws of the game were, he just didn't know when or how to apply them.
But Foley should have read the room and kicked it anyway. he had the ball and was ultimately in ultimate control of the situation.
There are three things that really irk me about the decision the referee took.
1. The choice of moment to choose to enforce a law that everyone is struggling to recall ever being enforced. Weird.
2. The refree had recognised the time wasting and taken it out of the equation when he called time off. Once time was off, there is no time wasting. Foley didn't call time on, the All Blacks didn't call time on. Unless the referee really had somewhere else to be or the tortoise was sticking it's head out, the decision by him to call time on and then overturn the penalty is therefore not about time wasting (he controls the time now) - it is about making a point. I have never paid money to watch a referee make a statement.
3. Including the time off there was 46 seconds elapsed from when he blew the whistle to when he overturned the penalty. That includes the time the players got themselves off the ground, him standing in front of everyone (effectively stopping the kick) while he explained his ruling in awarding the penalty to the Australians. Immediately afterwards he proceeded to allow the same length of time to be taken for the two packs to mingle around, crouch down, stare at some grass, and marvel at the uniformity of grass length before the ball is actually fed in. That's is *excluding* the time off where he and the australians argued over the decision. He not once hurries the players up, he does not make any effort to consider the "fair play" he is talking about to Nic after the match. Unless there is an amazing intercept he is effectively letting the time run down to give New Zealand the only remaining scoring opportunity conveniently right on the wallaby tryline. It's not about time wasting.
Bonus effort on his part - he rules a penalty advantage for offside in the ensuing ruck when there was no offside by any Australian - in fact they were well behind the offside line for fear of giving a penalty away. That one was just another one of the opportunities for him to show that he knew what the Laws of the game were, he just didn't know when or how to apply them.
But Foley should have read the room and kicked it anyway. he had the ball and was ultimately in ultimate control of the situation.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
Nothing more to say really.
I notice there were 4 yellow cards in the SAF v Arg game, Cancelled Stan so I haven’t seen it but I presume they were for some bullshit technicality that required frame by frame TMO input.
I’m off to watch my old club play in the QPR final today. At least there’s no bullshit TMO or French twat blowing the pea.
I notice there were 4 yellow cards in the SAF v Arg game, Cancelled Stan so I haven’t seen it but I presume they were for some bullshit technicality that required frame by frame TMO input.
I’m off to watch my old club play in the QPR final today. At least there’s no bullshit TMO or French twat blowing the pea.
Last edited:
gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
The way Swain crocked his arm says different, I'm afraid.
Joe Blow
Peter Sullivan (51)
I dont think so. Watching it live and then again the replay makes it very clear that the call is odd. He should have just called on time as he was taking the kick. There was no reason to stop the play. All he had to do was call on time when Foley kicked the pill.
He had very little control the whole game.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Fletcher Newell not even cited for the same act as Swain.
Maybe there’s something in staying down…
www.foxsports.com.au
Maybe there’s something in staying down…
Refereeing on outcome? Footage shows All Black attacking leg as Wallaby prepares for hearing
Refereeing on outcome? Footage shows All Black attacking leg as Wallaby prepares for hearing
www.foxsports.com.au
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
It was interesting to hear Nigel Owens thoughts who was much less certain of a red than the seething masses.Fletcher Newell not even cited for the same act as Swain.
Maybe there’s something in staying down…
Refereeing on outcome? Footage shows All Black attacking leg as Wallaby prepares for hearing
Refereeing on outcome? Footage shows All Black attacking leg as Wallaby prepares for hearing
Th0mo
Herbert Moran (7)
It’s OK the usual suspects will spend the next four pages explaining why this was completely different And Swain‘s was so much worse.Fletcher Newell not even cited for the same act as Swain.
Maybe there’s something in staying down…
Refereeing on outcome? Footage shows All Black attacking leg as Wallaby prepares for hearing
Refereeing on outcome? Footage shows All Black attacking leg as Wallaby prepares for hearing
tragic
John Solomon (38)
Rennie also mentioned in the presser swain was cleared out with a neck roll before he got up and had a second go.
So if he stays down and gets attention instead of getting straight up the card could have gone the other way.
The encouragement for theatrics is undeniable.
So if he stays down and gets attention instead of getting straight up the card could have gone the other way.
The encouragement for theatrics is undeniable.
KiwiM
Nev Cottrell (35)
Was a fascinating game to be at live.
The atmosphere under the roof was excellent and gave it a big match feel - I think the Thursday experiment was an absolute winner - the near 50/50 crowd split really added to the occasion in that no matter which team had the momentum half the crowd was up and into it.
Wallabies did some excellent work to manipulate the AB defence - throwing multiple bodies in midfield to exploit the disruption the ABs had in midfield with Havili going off. Even without that disruption ABs shown to be weak in backline defence this year so very smart preparation work by the Wallaby coaches to exploit.
Wallabies will be ruing their discipline - playing so much of the game undermanned.
Foley did great work to take the game by the scruff of the neck in the second half.
Under the roof I thought the lineout throwing and goal kicking by both sides was very skilful.
As for the ref - well he was all over the place wasn't he - Jordan clear hands on the ground winning a turnover, Foley forward pass to Kellaway not checked etc etc. French ref living up to the stereotype.
I'm interested to see how the Wallabies approach next week - they have nothing to lose and will presumably have a siege mentality. It's clear by now this AB side is weak so could be a golden chance to break the Eden Park hoodoo. Looks like a week of wet weather in Auckland so could be a much different game to under the roof.
The atmosphere under the roof was excellent and gave it a big match feel - I think the Thursday experiment was an absolute winner - the near 50/50 crowd split really added to the occasion in that no matter which team had the momentum half the crowd was up and into it.
Wallabies did some excellent work to manipulate the AB defence - throwing multiple bodies in midfield to exploit the disruption the ABs had in midfield with Havili going off. Even without that disruption ABs shown to be weak in backline defence this year so very smart preparation work by the Wallaby coaches to exploit.
Wallabies will be ruing their discipline - playing so much of the game undermanned.
Foley did great work to take the game by the scruff of the neck in the second half.
Under the roof I thought the lineout throwing and goal kicking by both sides was very skilful.
As for the ref - well he was all over the place wasn't he - Jordan clear hands on the ground winning a turnover, Foley forward pass to Kellaway not checked etc etc. French ref living up to the stereotype.
I'm interested to see how the Wallabies approach next week - they have nothing to lose and will presumably have a siege mentality. It's clear by now this AB side is weak so could be a golden chance to break the Eden Park hoodoo. Looks like a week of wet weather in Auckland so could be a much different game to under the roof.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
Just saw a transcript of the post game conversation.
White
“I understand but he was just about to kick it out and for two seconds … mate, that just cost us the Rugby Championship.”
Raynal
“If you think I’m not capable to give a scrum, you’re making a mistake. So now you know it.”
Says it all. What a f&@king self centred egotistical response All about him.
The cnut can go shove a baguette up his arse.
White
“I understand but he was just about to kick it out and for two seconds … mate, that just cost us the Rugby Championship.”
Raynal
“If you think I’m not capable to give a scrum, you’re making a mistake. So now you know it.”
Says it all. What a f&@king self centred egotistical response All about him.
The cnut can go shove a baguette up his arse.
ACR
Bob Davidson (42)
Ok, I'll revert to parochial archetype for you. It was worse. That's it. That's all you get. It literally doesn't even need explaining. You can just look at it.
I'm genuinely ok if we want to start penalising players for clearing out the legs (I've been slowly converted to the safety first thinking over the last few years). Just another one we can all whinge about when one gets picked up and another one doesn't. Like all those players that get penalised at mauls for 'working the legs' (or not), like the players that swim round the side of mauls that get penalised (or not). Like the players that get pinged for putting their hands on the ground first before the pilfer (or not).
Further villainous archetyping, I'd also like to formally retract my supportive indignation for the last minute penalty. This is after having seen Foley deliberately ignore the ref directly tell him to wait, twice, and take his very quick conversion. To avoid the obvious forward pass for the try being brought up. Raynel literally put his whistle to his mouth and just balked for some reason.
psst. I still think the call in the last minute was wrong (in the way it was implemented), I just have lost all sympathy for it.
You're welcome Th0mo.
LeCheese
Peter Johnson (47)
Just saw the footage of that convo on WWOS' youtube - Turinui made the comment that the ref backed himself into a corner, and how defensive he got in the post-game certainly suggests that as well.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
Right on cue
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
Need reference picks from the other incident to be able to decide. Gunna have to give you an F for incomplete referencing.Ok, I'll revert to parochial archetype for you. It was worse. That's it. That's all you get. It literally doesn't even need explaining. You can just look at it.
I'm genuinely ok if we want to start penalising players for clearing out the legs (I've been slowly converted to the safety first thinking over the last few years). Just another one we can all whinge about when one gets picked up and another one doesn't. Like all those players that get penalised at mauls for 'working the legs' (or not), like the players that swim round the side of mauls that get penalised (or not). Like the players that get pinged for putting their hands on the ground first before the pilfer (or not).
Further villainous archetyping, I'd also like to formally retract my supportive indignation for the last minute penalty. This is after having seen Foley deliberately ignore the ref directly tell him to wait, twice, and take his very quick conversion. To avoid the obvious forward pass for the try being brought up. Raynel literally put his whistle to his mouth and just balked for some reason.
psst. I still think the call in the last minute was wrong (in the way it was implemented), I just have lost all sympathy for it.
You're welcome Th0mo.
Th0mo
Herbert Moran (7)
But you gave me pics of the one but not the other? Sadly the video of Newells in the article is not great and a poor angle but both involved coming in from side, grabbing the leg and dropping weight on it. One resulted in serious injury, the other fortunately did not. It would be great if there were some objective guidelines like we have for other areas of foul play. I was happy with the YC and had to explain the whole dropping weight on to leg thing to my kids during the game but not sure what makes Swain‘s a red and Newell‘s not worthy of further scrutiny.
ACR
Bob Davidson (42)
Oh my bad. Here's a shitty picture for you.
Looks like he wraps around his arm around the thigh (hammy) then tries to pull him down and falls with his bodyweight on his leg. It's unsafe and should be looked at.
Your man stiff arms a planted and pinned leg under the knee.
But hey.. they both involve legs, so same shit right?
ACR
Bob Davidson (42)
Right on cue
I couldn't resist. haha.
I'm literally not even that too far removed, I think Newells isn't good either and should be pinged. It just isn't even ballpark, the same as Swain's. It's literally just so damn obvious I wouldn't think it would need explained.
- Status