3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[Done that]

Is the 3T about promoting individual clubs or finding new players throughout Australia who will benefit Rugby as a whole in
this country.
Some comments in this forum indicate to me that some people's motives are principally focused on gaining an advantage for their own club .

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Is the 3T about promoting individual clubs or finding new players throughout Australia who will benefit Rugby as a whole in
this country.
Some comments in this forum indicate to me that some people's motives are principally focused on gaining an advantage for their own club .

Not just in this forum

 

[Dave Beat]

Is the 3T about promoting individual clubs or finding new players throughout Australia who will benefit Rugby as a whole in
this country.
Some comments in this forum indicate to me that some people's motives are principally focused on gaining an advantage for their own club .

Randwick deserve to be there, and are a great club - IN THE SHUTE SHEILD that is.

If they stand alone in the 3rd tier - IT WOULD STINK of rotten fish and insider trading.

They maybe trying to do all the right things, as are allot of other clubs. A number of them also performing better on and off the field.

 

[the coach]

We seem to be getting bogged down in this discussion about stand alone clubs. I've suggested previously that Sydney Uni is the only club in Australia that has the player roster to be able to stand alone with it's own players. However, I think we need to look on the 3T teams as being different entities to the SS teams. If there is a Randwick team in the 3T it won't bear any resemblance (as far as player roster is concerned) to the SS team as there will be players parachuted in from the S15 teams. The selection of 3T teams is all about that horrible non-sporting word: BRAND.
As others have said Randwick is a famous brand around the world and if they do get the nod it will be because of that. How the SS team performed over the last few years is irrelevant IMO.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The team on the field may be different, but the administration and management team will likely be very close to what it is, and they appear to be mid-pack at best.

if they haven failed to do anything better with this "brand" than most other Shute Shield clubs, how could they be expected to do any better, which would be required in 3T.

The best performing clubs need to be stepping up. That includes, and probably most importantly applies to, off the field.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Just to preface that, I would love to see the famous Randwick brand as part of a national competition as their own entity. If they were in their current state, that would make a mockery of any qualification process though.

 

[Dave Beat]

If there is a Randwick team in the 3T it won't bear any resemblance (as far as player roster is concerned) to the SS team as there will be players parachuted in from the S15 teams. The selection of 3T teams is all about that horrible non-sporting word: BRAND.

Where have you been - i have nothing against Randwick.

How many Premierships have Randwick won since the code turned professional.

Since turning professional it has changed, and it is completely different to the 80's.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Dave I think any benefit a team may have in the SS is irrelevant and should be. The emotion needs to be taken out of it.

But the fact of the matter is, Randwick have not shown they can adequately finance a Shute Shield side to be at the better level of professionalism, structures and on-field results. How can they justify saying they would be able to replicate a structure that Sydney Uni has?

Where would the additional money come from to pay full time coaches and implement a program and then pay players?

Allowing a team who cannot would be a disaster, because when the likely happens and they are unable to, they need to be bailed out at least for the remainder of that season. This is a cost the competition cannot afford in order to be successful.

 

[wamberal]

Is the 3T about promoting individual clubs or finding new players throughout Australia who will benefit Rugby as a whole in
this country.

It's about developing a domestic competition which might, one day, end up on FTA. Surely we desperately need to attract new supporters to the code, and that is one reason that the franchises in the NRC have to have a genuine community base. We need to expand outwards into the newer suburbs, into the demographic that does not watch or play rugby now.

 

[the coach]

Where have you been - i have nothing against Randwick.

How many Premierships have Randwick won since the code turned professional.

This extract is the sole reason why IMO they shouldn't be stand alone, why should they benefit from players being parachuted in. They would then call these players Randwick players benefit from this in the following years SS.

Not sure of the relevance but Randwick have won 3 since 1995 -- 3rd behind Uni and Eastwood.

Why do you think that S15 players allocated to the 3T teams will then become part of the next year's SS team?

BTW, I'm not saying I agree with the process, I'm just explaining why I think they may get selected. The allocation of S15 players to the 3T teams is going to happen whether we like it or not. We just don't know who or how, but I haven't read anything which suggested this would mean the clubs would "own" the players. In fact, there's no reason to assume players will be allocated to the same clubs in the second year.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If there is a Randwick team in the 3T it won't bear any resemblance (as far as player roster is concerned) to the SS team as there will be players parachuted in from the S15 teams.

And where will the juniors who arent yet up to s15 gravitate: Randwick the SS club - partly because they may have heard of Randwick the 3T club but mainly because of the seamless pathway to 3T by playing SS there - that is, unless you have evidence of a complete separation of money, management, influence, coaching etc etc.
My information is that Randwick's push to get into 3T was nothing to do with brand it was based on connections and influence - as ever in this great game of ours.

 

[suckerforred]

......

Do I want to see a Third Tier comp? Yes.
Do I want to see clubs survive? Yes.
Do I think that this whole push for NRC in 2014 is solely so that the ARU can get a bigger slice of the SANZAR broadcasting rights (they miss out on something like $20million because they don't have an NPC or Currie Cup offering to Foxtel and affiliates)? Yes.

We aren't talking about pain here, we're talking about clubs who have very recently been bailed out by the QRU, who has been very recently bailed out by the ARU, who are now levying every single team in every single comp in Australia $200 as a form of a bailout from the active rugby community.

I want to see player development and I think a third tier can be good for the game, but announcing a comp then expecting buy in and financial commitment (for an unclear and/or poorly articulated competition and selection process) from clubs who are honestly not in a position to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in a limited sponsorship market, all within a three month window (of which one month was December - Christmas)? I personally see this incarnation of the NRC as encouraging/requiring the same financial recklessness which got the ARU to this point. And that is not good for the game.

Rant over.

Cat_A, I do agree with you on some level. I don't think that we are all that far appart. If I was to be totally honest I would have to say that I have huge issues with the way that the ARU has gone about getting the whole thing off the ground & I think that is what has lead to many of the problems that both you & I can see coming while others are arguing about the various benefits/costs of Syd Uni & Ranwick being allowed to stand alone in the competition.

My point was that this is the cards that we have been dealt and we need to deal with. I think that the process would be better & the outcomes better if we started to work together rather than trying to one-up the club next door or down the road or the next suburb over..........

I have had a gut full of the 'old-boys' & the 'but-we-have-always-done-it-like-this' clubs at all levels of rugby. I believe that the problems that both you & I can see with this whole discussion stem directly from this. I would hope that the decisions on participating cluls will be made impartially on the basis of financial viability, rugby development potiental etc. But I am also realist enough to know that this is most likely not going to be the case & therefore reserve the right to say 'I told you all so' further down the track.

 

[suckerforred]

Ouch - http://m.couriermail.com.au/sport/r...sis-hits-new-low/story-fnii0ksb-1226822027140

 

[Braveheart81]

A lot of this discussion is coming back to which Shute Shield teams deserve to be part of the NRC and who doesn't.

I don't really care if clubs have standalone bids or joint bids. Whatever works for them. I can also understand that JVs are not always easy to achieve, particularly amongst clubs that are traditional rivals and don't often see eye to eye (I'm looking at Randwick and Easts here).

Whichever teams end up playing in the NRC need to prioritise having the best players possible in that team. I doubt standalone ventures will unfairly prioritise many players from their own club at the expense of getting quality players from other clubs because it would be seriously detrimental to their chances in the NRC.

Players will be keen to get a run in the NRC and the NRC teams involved should be looking to build the best teams they can. Hopefully those aligned interests will help make the competition achieve its goal of having the best non-contracted players playing in a 3rd Tier competition.

 

[zacf01]

I think a better comparison would be the NQ Fury and Gold Coast Unitied A-League.

League has always had a strong foothold in NQ, where Union (and soccer) have a lot less of a market.

Even with big financial backing, player personnel and bums on seats for the country teams would be a disaster.

A Brisbane North and Brisbane South make the most sense, so I have no idea why the QRU isn't backing that model. First they squeeze the life out of clubs through this Junior Gold program and higher registration fees, and now this?

Again ARU set Junior Gold and registration fees not QRU

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Whichever teams end up playing in the NRC need to prioritise having the best players possible in that team. I doubt standalone ventures will unfairly prioritise many players from their own club at the expense of getting quality players from other clubs because it would be seriously detrimental to their chances in the NRC.

At the risk of repeating myself: why would a beastie junior who thinks he's up to NRC play SS for the beasts and NRC for the wicks?
I can tell you that in the early 90s the Wicks put pressure on a Tah to go and play there if he wanted to be a Wobbly again: you can guess the connection.

 

[RugbyFuture]

Where would the additional money come from to pay full time coaches and implement a program and then pay players?

UNSW.

(just to be clear I'm not a randwick fan, just putting forward the rational points I've seen and I may know a bit more about them than you guys, I'm a Rams man.)

 

[Dave Beat]

At the risk of repeating myself: why would a beastie junior who thinks he's up to NRC play SS for the beasts and NRC for the wicks?
I can tell you that in the early 90s the Wicks put pressure on a Tah to go and play there if he wanted to be a Wobbly again: you can guess the connection.

I read in one of these threads in the last couple of months - Cheik possibly did the same, I think it was to a young colt.

 

[RugbyFuture]

The selection of 3T teams is all about that horrible non-sporting word: BRAND.

I think because of traditions etc and the way the tahs and reds brand has been handled, some people in rugby circles somewhat undervalue this word and outcomes. Brand is a very important factor in a competition trying to be established in an area with varied and strong competition in other codes, particularly in a tradition heavy sport with loyalties to old clubs.

We have no confirmation what they will play as though do we? They may not leverage the club brand at all. We'll have to wait and see.

Certainly any good brand will integrate well with the community, give ownership to its members and listen to the people involved. Its not only about pretty pictures but how well they integrate with the fraternity behind them.

That's what might be seen as being mishandled by some of the current rugby brands in australia, but the goal should be to fix that with deeper connections.

 

[I like to watch]

C'mon, there are no "brands" in the SS
Most clubs play in front of less people than many Schools First XV's
None of them make any money out of merchandising.
A brand has no value,if it can't generate income.
Rather than suggesting the new comp will profit from "brand recognition" maybe the comp would be held in higher regard if none of the current "brands" were mentioned.
If I was a casual observer and saw that Randwick for example were playing,my immediate response would be that I would be watching a rebadged SS comp,not a level above that.