A very tacky development

[Inside Shoulder]

Freddo,
This tournament would cost nothing to stage as such. It could be more than funded out of the cake stall etc.
This is just rampant commercialism - why? simply because there's no rule, other than good taste, against it.

 

[Freddo Frog]

Did you know that in addition to tall the normal costs of putting on a tournament (refs, linesmen, first aid etc) the tournament pays for all the boys food and drinks etc - no small consideration with a couple of hundred boys playing. Plus obviously they all get the new kit, which, while not a neccessary thing, it's pretty cool for the boys who participate. They also had masseuses all day (again at no charge to the boys).

That wouldn't be possible without sponsorship because it's just not going to be covered by a cake stall. I spoke to some parents from Randwick Boys and I think Prairiewood? High last year, and they thought the whole concept was brilliant. For the boys it was a fantastic hit out against teams they don't usually get to play, with the added bonus of free food and a massage! They certainly weren't feeling exploited I can assure you.

I don't think you can write off the whole idea just because it offends your definition of good taste.

 

[Runner]

Just a question about the logos on socks etc that are the brand of the provider which the school has paid for eg Canterbury jumpers.

Should all gear purchased by a school be completely clean except for the school emblem?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Did you know that in addition to tall the normal costs of putting on a tournament (refs, linesmen, first aid etc) the tournament pays for all the boys food and drinks etc - no small consideration with a couple of hundred boys playing. Plus obviously they all get the new kit, which, while not a neccessary thing, it's pretty cool for the boys who participate. They also had masseuses all day (again at no charge to the boys).

That wouldn't be possible without sponsorship because it's just not going to be covered by a cake stall. I spoke to some parents from Randwick Boys and I think Prairiewood? High last year, and they thought the whole concept was brilliant. For the boys it was a fantastic hit out against teams they don't usually get to play, with the added bonus of free food and a massage! They certainly weren't feeling exploited I can assure you.

I don't think you can write off the whole idea just because it offends your definition of good taste.

How much did Investec front with - i.e. whats it cost to buy a school's rugby program and make sure your son is well looked after?

Tournaments have been run without massages.
Are you suggesting that, but for attending the 7s, there were kids who would not have eaten?

Manufacturer's logos, when they on everything they sell, are unavoidable - although I dont think the Scots 1sts jersey has one....there's some real estate that can be leveraged

 

[Swarley]

Nudgee is a better example of the problem than Scots because it is such a prodigious producer of Wallabies and so its very easy to see what MB get out of an association with such a successful rugby school.

Very true, IS. In fact, Nudgee is such a notorious and consistent producer of Wallabies/Super Rugby players that they receive ARU funding. Nudgee is seen as a development ground for future Australian Rugby stars and understandably so. In the past few years we've seen the likes of James O'Connor, Richard Brown, Hugh McMeniman, Rocky Elsom all feature regularly for the Wallabies. Up and coming Super XV players like Joseph Tomane, Dom Shipperly and Kimami Sitauti are all old boys as well. In 2011, Sean McMahon, Feleti Kaituu, Tom Moloney, Craig Hunt and Jack Tuttle all made Aus Schools/Aus Schools 'A'. Kristian Satui was picked for the Australian Youth Commonwealth Games 7's team, and Scott Gale played halfback for QLD schools. McMahon is now in the Aus 7's team and is undoubtedly a future star.

Current Year 11 boy Joel Hagan graced the front page of the Courier Mail in 2009 aged only 13, in the middle of a battle between the Broncos and the Titans for his signature. Joel had represented QLD in Union, League, AFL and athletics leading up to that feature, and later that year won the U13 100m and 200m at GPS Track and Field.

This was on the website last year:

"I would like to thank our Nudgee College Rugby sponsors, Mercedes-Benz Brisbane. As Major Sponsors they have been an outstanding partner this season and their support is very much appreciated. I would also like to thank Russell and Co Solicitors, The Caxton Hotel and the many home day program and camp t-shirt sponsors for their ongoing support of Nudgee College Rugby." (http://www.nudgee.com/public/news/sport/celebrations-and-field)

Nudgee are expected to pump out star athletes year after year.
They have to finance these boys somehow, and they do it through a combination of funding, donations and sponsorship.

 

[CTPE]

In fact, Nudgee is such a notorious and consistent producer of Wallabies/Super Rugby players that they receive ARU funding. Nudgee is seen as a development ground for future Australian Rugby stars and understandably so.

They receive ARU funding!!

I'd be interested to know to what extent?

 

[Freddo Frog]

IS are you being serious? As far as I can tell, Investec is supporting one multi-school rugby tournament. Are you suggesting that they are sponsoring Scots rugby as well? If so, i'd like to see where your information comes from.

 

[suckerforred]

One thing that this thread has shown is that school sponsorship is one big giant can of worms. So I have a few questions....

What are the priorities of our schools? To produce people who can read and write, to produce elite sprotsmen and woman, or to produce well rounded members of society? Personally I think that it is to produce well rounded members of society, who can read and write, but am open to suggestions. Is sport part of this?

Are tournaments such as the schools boy 7's a necessary part of schooling and or the developmetn of rugby in Aust? If the answer is yes (because I believe they are) how are they to be paid for?

Should sponsorship, of specifically a school side or a school aged tournament, come with strings attached? E.g. performance in Naplan test should be above a certain levels.

How do you ensure that the sponsorship is 'fair'? Should the schools be left to their own devices so that you will find that schools with very active and connected communities (read high profile private schools such as Scots and Nudgee) will get the lions share? How are (should) tournament sponsorship be divided / spent? Should this money be used for travel for those schools that have to come from long distances?

How could this type of sponsorship be directed into clubs and then school kids be encouraged to play in those clubs?

My experience is a bit skewed here as I went to boarding school and this adds a whole other level of complexity. (And before you start I have heard all the cracks about being a pampered private school bitch and the reality is very different and that is a very different discussion.) Personally I don't have a problem with sponsorship for schools to participate in a tournament because these usually attract extra costs that are met but the parents of the kids involved or the school. If sponsorship means that resources are not diverted from academic programs or that kids who would normally not be able to participate could, then realistic it is a good thing.

Sponsorship of the day to day sporting programs of a school are a different kettle of fish. There are arguements for each side and I really don't know which side I would come down on. One thing that I will say however is that I don't agree with sponsorship logos being front and centre on the kit. There is just something not right about it. I would also say that any such sponsorship would need to come with no strings attached. (I have mentioned this before in this thread.)

 

[Inside Shoulder]

IS are you being serious? As far as I can tell, Investec is supporting one multi-school rugby tournament. Are you suggesting that they are sponsoring Scots rugby as well? If so, i'd like to see where your information comes from.

My complaint is about the tackiness of a commercial logo on the school jersey - money was all it took to buy pride of place
if youre prepared to let 'em put their logo on your jersey and have their banners and signs at the school then youre selling out.......and Im sure there is a quid pro quo

 

[Inside Shoulder]

One thing that this thread has shown is that school sponsorship is one big giant can of worms. So I have a few questions....

What are the priorities of our schools? To produce people who can read and write, to produce elite sprotsmen and woman, or to produce well rounded members of society? Personally I think that it is to produce well rounded members of society, who can read and write, but am open to suggestions. Is sport part of this?

Are tournaments such as the schools boy 7's a necessary part of schooling and or the developmetn of rugby in Aust? If the answer is yes (because I believe they are) how are they to be paid for?

Should sponsorship, of specifically a school side or a school aged tournament, come with strings attached? E.g. performance in Naplan test should be above a certain levels.

How do you ensure that the sponsorship is 'fair'? Should the schools be left to their own devices so that you will find that schools with very active and connected communities (read high profile private schools such as Scots and Nudgee) will get the lions share? How are (should) tournament sponsorship be divided / spent? Should this money be used for travel for those schools that have to come from long distances?

How could this type of sponsorship be directed into clubs and then school kids be encouraged to play in those clubs?

My experience is a bit skewed here as I went to boarding school and this adds a whole other level of complexity. (And before you start I have heard all the cracks about being a pampered private school bitch and the reality is very different and that is a very different discussion.) Personally I don't have a problem with sponsorship for schools to participate in a tournament because these usually attract extra costs that are met but the parents of the kids involved or the school. If sponsorship means that resources are not diverted from academic programs or that kids who would normally not be able to participate could, then realistic it is a good thing.

Sponsorship of the day to day sporting programs of a school are a different kettle of fish. There are arguements for each side and I really don't know which side I would come down on. One thing that I will say however is that I don't agree with sponsorship logos being front and centre on the kit. There is just something not right about it. I would also say that any such sponsorship would need to come with no strings attached. (I have mentioned this before in this thread.)

SFR you said it: a can of worms!
Look at the bandwidth and printers ink spent on these issues at college level (and High School level) in the USA.
Consider what i understand the developments to be in the UK where the clubs are running schools - as i understand it.
And its not as if the private schools are entitled to say its out money and we'll spend it as we see fit - some of it is our money and we have a right to say what is the purpose of schooling.

 

[Freddo Frog]

My complaint is about the tackiness of a commercial logo on the school jersey - money was all it took to buy pride of place
if youre prepared to let 'em put their logo on your jersey and have their banners and signs at the school then youre selling out.......and Im sure there is a quid pro quo

But the logo isn't on their school jersey (or indeed on any schools jersey), except for this one day tournament where it's on all participating teams jerseys. It's not a school sponsorship - it's a tournament sponsorship which exists for one day per season.

I'm not sure what your gripe is aside from the fact you see sponsorship logos as offensive to your sensibilities. The fact is, this sponsorship allows a really good tournament to go ahead each year. It gives the boys a focus for pre-season training and gives them some good tough opposition. I can't find a reason to complain about that.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

But the logo isn't on their school jersey (or indeed on any schools jersey), except for this one day tournament where it's on all participating teams jerseys. It's not a school sponsorship - it's a tournament sponsorship which exists for one day per season.

I'm not sure what your gripe is aside from the fact you see sponsorship logos as offensive to your sensibilities. The fact is, this sponsorship allows a really good tournament to go ahead each year. It gives the boys a focus for pre-season training and gives them some good tough opposition. I can't find a reason to complain about that.

there are flags all over the joint...judging by the photos
Is the TAS tournament sponsored?
I might wander up there and gather evidence...and burst their jumping castle

 

[CTPE]

Remember, in 2011 the Scots Rugby Convenor described TSC as the "premier rugby school in Australia" at their awards night.

3 premierships in the past 50 years.....the last of them 18 years ago!! I would have liked him to have been marking my essays.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

3 premierships in the past 50 years.....the last of them 18 years ago!! I would have liked him to have been marking my essays.

i suppose if you have a rugby convenor who is so far up himself that, in the circumstances you mention, he could think that made it the premier rugby school they are in deep stook.

As a matter of interest Grammar has won 2 premierships in the last 50 years and High have won 4 (the same as SIC I think) - so that shows how much he's kidding himself.

 

[International Badboy]

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread and from personal experience, South Africa is a lot worse than Australia. one only has to look at the schools (one I visited has a prominent Puma logo next to their school sign) or the school Jerseys featuring Mr Price, Puma, ABSA. Also lately i have read the top rugby schools in the country have established random drug testing to combat the amount of boys who use anabolic steroids to try and perform better

 

[Rob42]

A Very Tacky Development?

Are we referring to gossiping about which schoolboys use steroids? Give it a rest. The discussion about the merits and pitfalls of sponsorship of schoolboy rugby was interesting. Gossiping about steroid use embiggens nobody.

 

[Nusadan]

I'll have no quibble with the situation, if it happens, that my alma mater receives sponsorship for the rugby program if all the monies goes to a worthy cause i.e. school bursaries or an mission in India...

 

[Freddo Frog]

The point is that once money starts to infiltrate the sport, at any level, performance becomes an issue. You cant build a reliable income stream if your result vary randomly from year to year....pressure to perform builds on all participants and officials...and if its happening in the absence of commercial imperatives it sure as well going to be a problem in the presence of such imperatives.

Hey, so maybe that actually means they aren't trying to build an income stream. Maybe they're just trying to get sponsorship to host one tournament. Who'd have thought??

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Hey, so maybe that actually means they aren't trying to build an income stream. Maybe they're just trying to get sponsorship to host one tournament. Who'd have thought??

theres at least one unstated assumption in there.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Without being disrespectful and with never ending hope we've turned a corner it's a little hard to see how SBHS fit that description at the moment.


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