All Blacks v Wallabies, Dunedin, 19th October 2013

[lewisr]

Forget JOC (James O'Connor), he is poison on the team. What was the Sydney Swans policy? I think we need that first and foremost. Betham, Cummins and Tomane would thrive in that team.

Don't completely give up on him mate. If him and beale get their sit together like quade seems to have done, then they too could make a return and start busting defences wide open once again. They're both absolute freaks on the footy field so its just a matter of whether they want to fix their attitude r continue to be fuckwits.

 

[Bullrush]

I see GAGR has posted an article about the maul call, and the author is having a whinge about the no release by Faumuina that led to the Read try. About 5 seconds after the game started, Moore does the exact same thing to Thrush, yet this finds no mention.

Of course Hooper's professional foul of lying ontop of the ruck and in from the side where AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) wins the penalty after the Ben Smith / Messam break isn't commented on, as well as the Genia offside from the scrum that eventually led to Kuridrani's try.

I'd suggest the author also to look at the maul at 61 minutes and see what McCalman does to Messam (who is bound the entire time): unbinds, in from behind and choking the opposition player.

I'm sure if you look at the game as a whole you'll find plenty Joubert missed and/or got wrong for either side, I thought he had a particular mediocre game.

The point is, the article reads as if the Wallabies were (as always) the unlucky ones regarding the referee, and you just have to read the comments on there and those going along the lines of "ABs aren't that good, refs only cut them more slack" are the ones that get upvoted 50 times. The wallowing in self-pity is just cringeworthy.

Hooper's one is interesting as there was quite a lot made out of a similar penalty a few weeks back with Aaron Smith over Lealiifano I think it was. Not a word here.

I also noticed McCalman on Messam and thought Messam was going to retalliate with something for a secound there.

This is an Australian fan site though so it's not really surprising that questionable calls in favour of the ABs are shouted and screamed about while the ones in favour of the Wallabies are quietly ignored. The same thing happens on AB fan sites I'm certain.

I haven't had a look but after reading some of the comments on Joubert, I was tempted to skim thru the last Puma game thread to see how bad the ref was in that game.

I'm sure that the ref is never quite that bad if your team wins.

 

[Braveheart81]

This is an Australian fan site though so it's not really surprising that questionable calls in favour of the ABs are shouted and screamed about while the ones in favour of the Wallabies are quietly ignored. The same thing happens on AB fan sites I'm certain.

You Kiwis are invaluable for providing balance in some of the analysis. I think everyone acknowledges that whichever side you're on you end up seeing more things from your perspective. It's almost impossible to avoid unless you specifically sit down and analyse every play like Cyclopath did in his article a month or so ago.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The biggest problem the Wallabies had in that game was that three of our forwards were complete passengers.

Slipper, Alexander and Horwill were all completely ineffectual apart from in the scrum and it killed our competitiveness in many areas. Slipper and Alexander had pretty solid games in the scrum but around the park were awful. Slipper getting held up twice and turned over and Alexander missing a bunch of tackles. Horwill with that simple dropped ball and was generally anonymous around the park.

A fair bit has been said about our lack of competitiveness at the breakdown but I think much of that is down to the fact that our backrow had to work ridiculously hard in defence and were distracted from their core duties.

Mowen got through a lot of defence but was also not very involved at the breakdown or as a ball runner.

We simply can't compete with the All Blacks forward pack if we've got players not pulling their weight.

Getting benched for a couple of games did wonders for Will Genia. Maybe against England, Fardy should return to lock and our backrow can stay the same. In the last few tests, Rob Simmons has certainly shown that he's in better form than Horwill.

This is interesting. How long were posters calling for a front row that could scrummage even if it meant that they were passengers around the park. The Welsh prop, Jones, was the model to get the Wallabies competitive again - hugely effective at the scrum but invisible otherwise. Dan Palmer was on almost everyone's lips. So now we have a scrum that is competitive, if not dominant, early in the game but just look at the player ratings on the side. Slipper and Alexander rated in the lowest three. Seems to be a lot of inconsistency amongst Wallaby supporters.

Personally, I haven't a clue as to what the solutions to the forwards' woes are, but I would prefer to see Robbo start at LH and Slipper at TH with either Alexander or Sio as back up LH. I think we, as fans, should cut some slack for the front rowers if they are at last becoming competitive in the scrum. After all, that is their core business.

I agree that Horwill has been far off the pace in recent games, and is being outplayed by Simmons. But neither has had great impact on a game for some time. We sorely missed Scott Fardy in the Dunedin test.

 

[Braveheart81]

This is interesting. How long were posters calling for a front row that could scrummage even if it meant that they were passengers around the park. The Welsh prop, Jones, was the model to get the Wallabies competitive again - hugely effective at the scrum but invisible otherwise. Dan Palmer was on almost everyone's lips. So now we have a scrum that is competitive, if not dominant, early in the game but just look at the player ratings on the side. Slipper and Alexander rated in the lowest three. Seems to be a lot of inconsistency amongst Wallaby supporters.

Personally, I haven't a clue as to what the solutions to the forwards' woes are, but I would prefer to see Robbo start at LH and Slipper at TH with either Alexander or Sio as back up LH. I think we, as fans, should cut some slack for the front rowers if they are at last becoming competitive in the scrum. After all, that is their core business.

I agree that Horwill has been far off the pace in recent games, and is being outplayed by Simmons. But neither has had great impact on a game for some time. We sorely missed Scott Fardy in the Dunedin test.

They have to be able to contribute in both elements of the game. Particularly when their opposite numbers are playing very well around the park (particularly Faumuina).

Our scrum was improved, but it was hardly close to dominant enough that our props can then have a negative impact in general play. Slipper and Alexander are both good players around the park but didn't show that on Saturday.

 

[BDA]

I'd like to see a horses for course approach to the scrums. If we're lining up against Wales, Italy or England I think you go for your strongest scrum even if that means sacrificing a bit of mobility. Against the Blacks I think you need your front row making a significant impact around the field. It seems to me that both Robinson and Kepu are playing better than Alexander atm (in all respects), possibly because they'v both played less rugby over the last 6 weeks.

I'd like to see a bit of tactical rotation next week, with Robbo and Kepu starting.

I'd also like to see Gill replace Hooper.

 

[TOCC]

I hardly keep it a secret, TOCC, as with my true identity. I'm compulsively up-front, make of it what you will.
.

Relax buddy, it was just a tongue-in-cheek comment

 

[fatprop]

This is an Australian fan site though so it's not really surprising that questionable calls in favour of the ABs are shouted and screamed about while the ones in favour of the Wallabies are quietly ignored. The same thing happens on AB fan sites I'm certain.

Yep

 

[Bruce Ross]

Relax buddy, it was just a tongue-in-cheek comment

Fair enough, TOCC. This is one of the problems with written as opposed to verbal communication. The subtleties are lost.
.

 

[Blue]

The biggest problem the Wallabies had in that game was that three of our forwards were complete passengers.

Slipper, Alexander and Horwill were all completely ineffectual apart from in the scrum and it killed our competitiveness in many areas. Slipper and Alexander had pretty solid games in the scrum but around the park were awful. Slipper getting held up twice and turned over and Alexander missing a bunch of tackles. Horwill with that simple dropped ball and was generally anonymous around the park.

That. Zero impact in open play from those three. Like I said earlier in the thread, sort out those three position and bring back Fardy and it becomes a whole new ball game.

Those three were truly awful.

 

[cyclopath]

This is interesting. How long were posters calling for a front row that could scrummage even if it meant that they were passengers around the park. The Welsh prop, Jones, was the model to get the Wallabies competitive again - hugely effective at the scrum but invisible otherwise. Dan Palmer was on almost everyone's lips. So now we have a scrum that is competitive, if not dominant, early in the game but just look at the player ratings on the side. Slipper and Alexander rated in the lowest three. Seems to be a lot of inconsistency amongst Wallaby supporters.

It really wasn't. We had 2 feeds all game, lost one to a penalty, and rarely threatened the AB ball on their feed. AND, the AB scrum is not the world benchmark, as good as it is.
Our scrum has made some small steps forward, but it is never too far away from a debacle.

 

[Shiggins]

The Honey Badger is deeply ordinary. Speight is obviously good. Betham is potentially good. JOC (James O'Connor) in form is a world class player.

Have u seen the highlights from last years northern tour? It's basically a nick cummins tribute.

 

[Shiggins]

It will be interesting too see how many votes cummins gets at the john eels medal. He will defiantly get a few from the EOYT

 

[Dan54]

Geez be even more interesting to see how many votes he get for John EALES medal too huh Shiggins


Ok ok, I couldn't resist!!!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Geez be even more interesting to see how many votes he get for John EALES medal too huh Shiggins


Ok ok, I couldn't resist!!!

You were definitely being defiant in your post.

 

[Braveheart81]

I like the defiant way in which Cummins gets his votes. Always the rebel. Never willing to be one of the crowd.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

I'm a long time critic of Bob One-Eyer but his piece on the front sums up exactly what I think.

Lots to be cheerful about, but you look a little soft.

 

[Bullrush]

I'm a long time critic of Bob One-Eyer but his piece on the front sums up exactly what I think.

Lots to be cheerful about, but you look a little soft.

Might be the first piece from him that I've read that doesn't say anything about the ref or the ABs cheating...

 

[Braveheart81]

Might be the first piece from him that I've read that doesn't say anything about the ref or the ABs cheating.

That's in Part 2.

 

[Shiggins]

Might be the first piece from him that I've read that doesn't say anything about the ref or the ABs cheating.

R u talking about me?