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aus front row

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JJJ

JJJ

Vay Wilson (31)
Palmer should be in the squad if for no other reason than to give Fatcat a proper workout at scrum practice. And we really need to pick our best scrum next time we play England at least, since workrate isn't really a factor there. They've shown that they're willing to pull the whole game down to scrums and shown they can beat us like that. Signs are that they're only getting stronger at the set-piece. And if we want the rest of the rugby world to know we aren't a scrummaging joke anymore we have to prove it to the English media for the idea to stick. Particularly ahead of the BIL series.

But when we're talking about workrate as a deciding factor I'd like to see the stats. And not just things like rucks "attended", but effective involvements. Counterrucks and cleanouts, that sort of thing. If there are stats along those lines available.

And fwiw, didn't Al Baxter say in his podcast that Holmes was the non-Tah Aussie LHP he rated highest in scrummaging against?
 
dozza

dozza

Bob McCowan (2)
LHP - Robinson for obvious reasons. THP- either Kepu or Palmer although it would be interesting to see Palmer go up against Ben Franks and Tony Woodcock, to get the real measure of him. And Hooker I'm torn between Moore and Taf as both are in good form atm.
 
hammertimethere

hammertimethere

Trevor Allan (34)
I was talking to a friend in the know a few weeks ago and he told me a little story. Gordon Tietjens (NZ 7's coach and legend of the shortened game) was stuck on who to drop from his training squad (he had 14, 2 more than he needed). So apparently he just brought the lads in at the end of one of his famously brutal pre-tournament block camps (before the current group of tournaments), tossed them a ball said "split yourselves into two teams, we're playing a game of sevens with no time limit, the first 2 people to give up aren't coming".

At first that seems ridiculous, most coaches would just say you'll injure your players (fair enough too). But it sure as shit sorts the men from the boys. We need a similarly sadistic selection process for our front row.

Invite the following front rowers to a "scrum camp" as they call it (or do it on the first day of team training).
Robinson, Daley, Holmes, Cowan, Moore, TPN, Hanson, Charles, Fainga'a (if fit), Slipper, Kepu, Palmer, Alexander. Then you take all other wallaby forwards plus as many local ring ins (not front rowers) as you can find. They report at 5 in the morning to an icy field somewhere. Bladesy says "get your jerseys on we're packing live scrums". They then proceed to pack endless permutations of combinations trialling each one twice at a time, with 35-50 secs rest between scrums and some kind of viciously anaerobic running drill (just for the FR's) of 4.5 to 6 mins inserted every 8 to 10 scrums. You do this until only a few are left standing (not eliminated because their technique went to shit under fatigue), or the performance deteriorates to a degree that no useful info is being garnered (lots of successive collapses on the hit). Then you make them perform the running drill another 2 or 3 times. Each time a scrum is packed, an excel spreadsheet is added to which records which scrum wins/is dominant and loses and the players involved and computes raw scores for each player by the end of the session. There is to be no coaching of the players other than them coaching each other.
This raw data provides an invaluable tool in finally getting the selection process to a T

Its not perfect, but it is strangely delightfully sadistic and would "sort the men from the boys" as you will.


thoughts ? :)
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The trouble is that if you got Andrew Blades to devise a contest amongst the front rowers to see who the last man standing was, it would almost certainly be an eating contest.
 
chasmac

chasmac

Dave Cowper (27)
hammertimethere said:
I was talking to a friend in the know a few weeks ago and he told me a little story. Gordon Tietjens (NZ 7's coach and legend of the shortened game) was stuck on who to drop from his training squad (he had 14, 2 more than he needed). So apparently he just brought the lads in at the end of one of his famously brutal pre-tournament block camps (before the current group of tournaments), tossed them a ball said "split yourselves into two teams, we're playing a game of sevens with no time limit, the first 2 people to give up aren't coming".

At first that seems ridiculous, most coaches would just say you'll injure your players (fair enough too). But it sure as shit sorts the men from the boys. We need a similarly sadistic selection process for our front row.

Invite the following front rowers to a "scrum camp" as they call it (or do it on the first day of team training).
Robinson, Daley, Holmes, Cowan, Moore, TPN, Hanson, Charles, Fainga'a (if fit), Slipper, Kepu, Palmer, Alexander. Then you take all other wallaby forwards plus as many local ring ins (not front rowers) as you can find. They report at 5 in the morning to an icy field somewhere. Bladesy says "get your jerseys on we're packing live scrums". They then proceed to pack endless permutations of combinations trialling each one twice at a time, with 35-50 secs rest between scrums and some kind of viciously anaerobic running drill (just for the FR's) of 4.5 to 6 mins inserted every 8 to 10 scrums. You do this until only a few are left standing (not eliminated because their technique went to shit under fatigue), or the performance deteriorates to a degree that no useful info is being garnered (lots of successive collapses on the hit). Then you make them perform the running drill another 2 or 3 times. Each time a scrum is packed, an excel spreadsheet is added to which records which scrum wins/is dominant and loses and the players involved and computes raw scores for each player by the end of the session. There is to be no coaching of the players other than them coaching each other.
This raw data provides an invaluable tool in finally getting the selection process to a T

Its not perfect, but it is strangely delightfully sadistic and would "sort the men from the boys" as you will.


thoughts ? :)
Click to expand...

This would possibly sort out the pecking order for scrummaging ability and fitness under a game type scenario. There are other considerations needed in order to pick the best front row (lineouts, general play etc).
Sounds creative though.
 
chasmac

chasmac

Dave Cowper (27)
Braveheart81 said:
The trouble is that if you got Andrew Blades to devise a contest amongst the front rowers to see who the last man standing was, it would almost certainly be an eating contest.
Click to expand...

Isn't he meant to be a good coach. He comes across well on the podcast(s). Was also a good prop in his day.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I'm sure he is.

But seriously, if you put a bunch of prop forwards together and made them decide a way they were going to work out who was the best, it would surely be an eating contest.
 
R

rugbyfan

Guest
Scott Allen said:
I published some video analysis on this topic today at http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/lets-play-wallaby-props-in-their-best-position/
Click to expand...
Loving your analysis on the scrum work, I personally believe that the combination of Robinson and Kepu would be smart, not only in benefitting our set piece, but by having two front rowers that are accustomed to each others movement in the scrum, which I find essential in timing on the engage which overall leads to a more dominate scrum. I agree in also picking Moore as the 1st Hooker, with Charles on the bench, I just believe Nathan adds a certain dimension to the rugby game, sort of like a raw product, he has so many tricks in the bag. It will be tough for Australian selectors to pick their tight five as there are many contenders. Keep up the good work on your video analysis, loving the tight five stuff as its helping me with coaching.
 
R

rugbyfan

Guest
It's only an opinion, obviously Charles' time is in the future.
 
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