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Aussie Player Exodus

noscrumnolife

noscrumnolife

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Pfitzy said:
I see that quote of the kid training hours a day at the school, and then getting maybe 10 hours a week tops in a club / Academy environment.

Why aren't the schools and clubs sharing IP and facilities to help keep people in the game?

Because Schools don't give a shit about those kids once they leave, except to put "Wallaby alumnus" in gold leaf up on a timber board somewhere.
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The schools bear no responsibility for the health of Australian Rugby Union though. If the best path to a career as a rugby playing professional athlete is in France or the NRL, the schools with all their resources wouldn't doing best by their students if they didn't help them into that pathway. Their first and foremost duty is to the student, not the Wallabies or Rugby Australia.

I know some GPS schools have built informal but developed pathways with league clubs (Scots & Roosters to mind most prominently). Personally I don't blame them. The kids are getting higher salaries with more professional opportunities.
 
stillmissit

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
noscrumnolife said:
The schools bear no responsibility for the health of Australian Rugby Union though. If the best path to a career as a rugby playing professional athlete is in France or the NRL, the schools with all their resources wouldn't doing best by their students if they didn't help them into that pathway. Their first and foremost duty is to the student, not the Wallabies or Rugby Australia.

I know some GPS schools have built informal but developed pathways with league clubs (Scots & Roosters to mind most prominently). Personally I don't blame them. The kids are getting higher salaries with more professional opportunities.
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I agree with what you say but the bit about Scots sticks a bit. A private school with, presumably several Wallabies in their Alumni, aligning themselves with the Roosters, is it due to lack of student interest, grabbing at funds from the Roostes or something else?

Looked up the list and its pretty impressive (ken Cathpole et al). but no Roosters players listed.

Wikiwand - List of Old Boys of The Scots College (Sydney)

This is a List of notable Old Boys of The Scots College, they being notable former students - known as "Old Boys" of the Presbyterian Church school, The Scots College in Bellevue Hill, New South Wales, Australia.
www.wikiwand.com www.wikiwand.com
 
Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
noscrumnolife said:
The schools bear no responsibility for the health of Australian Rugby Union though.
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Yes. I've been told that before. Almost in the same breath as how The same schools are the ones creating wallabies.

They're also the same schools who are happy to use the referees developed by other systems. And tell kids they can't play club rugby anymore.

Let's extend that to it's logical conclusion: no club holds any responsibility to the bigger picture.

Let's all circle the wagons and continue to operate as islands, because that's working just fine.

I'm not saying schools should pony up cash. I'm saying they've got to be part of the solution.
 
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noscrumnolife

noscrumnolife

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Pfitzy said:
Yes. I've been told that before. Almost in the same breath as how The same schools are the ones creating wallabies.

They're also the same schools who are happy to use the referees developed by other systems. And tell kids they can't play club rugby anymore.

Let's extend that to it's logical conclusion: no club holds any responsibility to the bigger picture.

Let's all circle the wagons and continue to operate as islands, because that's working just fine.

I'm not saying schools should pony up cash. I'm saying they've got to be part of the solution.
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None of this answers why the schools should be responsible for keeping players in the game and should share facilities and IP like you insinuated though.

Are those issues? Yes. But if there is a systematic problem with the way schools develop talent and help retain it then the bodies who administer our rugby systems bear that responsibility (eg state boards and RA).

The logical conclusion of this point is not that clubs don't hold any responsibility to the bigger picture. A school is not a club. A school is an educational institution which has a duty of care to prepare its students for their future as best as they possibly can. Say you are a 16-18 year old at a GPS school, who is a good athlete with solid rugby skills. You have three potential career pathways open to you:
1. France.
2. NRL.
3. Super Rugby.

France & the NRL have higher salaries, more opportunities, better work conditions. That is all it boils down to. In any other industry you would be baffled if a school didn't prioritise attaining work for the more stable employer who pays its workers more money to more employees.

It would be negligent for the school, which is often receiving $30K+ for the students education, not to maximise the chances of a student attaining the better career available in France or League. Just because it is the 'right' thing to do by Australian Rugby. It is incumbent on Rugby Australia and the States to make Super Rugby a more attractive career pathway.
 
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Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
stillmissit said:
Please explain to me again - all of you guys arguing about how good our talent ID is?
It strikes me that we couldn't ID a talented player until the media pointed it out and by then it is obvious to all and too late if we want to keep them here.
Mostly we only want proven talent and NRL holds some of that. How the hell can we run a professional rugby organisation where we are shovelling $$$$$ into the teat of NRl or fighting for its leftovers?
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We knew exactly who this player was. He was in Reds Academy and had been identified.

The issue is that we will only ever have a handful of these players around the country on full time professional contracts straight out of high school.
 
PhilClinton

PhilClinton

Geoff Shaw (53)
Not sure if already discussed but it sounds like the NRL will officially have cap relief for teams who want to sign players from other codes.

Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase)’s future at the Roosters sooner than later might not be so far fetched.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
PhilClinton said:
Not sure if already discussed but it sounds like the NRL will officially have cap relief for teams who want to sign players from other codes.

Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase)’s future at the Roosters sooner than later might not be so far fetched.
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I doubt anything will happen quickly. The NRL has talked about this a bunch of times but ultimately get a lot of pushback internally. 16 clubs are going to be against the Roosters signing Nawaqanitawase with some or all of his contract falling outside the salary cap. This is the club that everyone else already believes doesn't have to play by the same rules.
 
The Ghost of Raelene

The Ghost of Raelene

Andrew Slack (58)
More threatening is the introduction of a new team and the 30 contracts needing to be filled comp wide when they are brought in. I think we'll see the fringe guys like Jeral Skelton going to the Dogs being more of a realistic target.

Max has all the making of a star but it's a gamble for an NRL side to sign someone from another code to play your 2nd most important position. Flip side might be that an NRL side could offer him 400-500k which is half of what a star Fullback would get. If he doesn't work out, it's not the end of the world.
 
PhilClinton

PhilClinton

Geoff Shaw (53)
Yep - I think the Broncos, Storm and Cowboys got hit the hardest by the Dolphins entering the competition.

If there was a clause in the salary cap which let them chase already established professional rugby player to fill those gaps, at a discounted rate, I'm sure they'd be all for it.

It's almost like they've got a mindset of killing off rugby and happy to blow plenty of cash along the way. They know rugby in Australia has a very finite window of now until 2027 to turn things around at a professional level. They're pushing their expansion teams and salary cap exemptions at a time when rugby really can't afford to lose anyone.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The Marketing Pigeon said:
A bit alarming that the telegraph reports neither Rugby Australia or the tahs are in talks with him about resigning - surely now is the time after he’s already met with the Roosters…
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Why would you rush to talk to him right now?

He's already contracted for 2024 and he and his agent will absolutely be working out what RA is willing to offer him before he signs elsewhere. The standing of the Wallabies and RA is at a low. Wait for the dust to settle, a director of rugby to be appointed and potentially a new coach and then open negotiations.

At this point it has nothing to do with the Waratahs. It's going to be entirely about how much money RA is willing to put towards his contract. In my view he'll end up signing a 3 year deal with Rugby Australia out to the 2027 RWC. He's one of the few players who have really improved their position with the side this year, his improvement has been fantastic and he's surely one of the most marketable players the Wallabies have.
 
Brumby Runner

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
Braveheart81 said:
Why would you rush to talk to him right now?

He's already contracted for 2024 and he and his agent will absolutely be working out what Rugby Australia is willing to offer him before he signs elsewhere. The standing of the Wallabies and Rugby Australia is at a low. Wait for the dust to settle, a director of rugby to be appointed and potentially a new coach and then open negotiations.

At this point it has nothing to do with the Waratahs. It's going to be entirely about how much money Rugby Australia is willing to put towards his contract. In my view he'll end up signing a 3 year deal with Rugby Australia out to the 2027 RWC. He's one of the few players who have really improved their position with the side this year, his improvement has been fantastic and he's surely one of the most marketable players the Wallabies have.
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Probably already being lined up for compulsory transfer to the Brumbies to replace wingers thought to be leaving post 2024.
 
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