Australia Needs to get better at pressuring referees

[Quick Hands]

We performed badly, so did the referee. Does that mean the referee shouldn't have to clean up their act too? What a silly argument, of course they should have to get better.

I think what makes me especially irate is the above you "i don't want to talk to you" attitude. It just doesn't reconcile with our values of a free and democratic society and is completely anti free speech. To refuse to talk to our captain like that should make every good Australian want to ring up Peter Cosgrove and put the army on Defcon 1.

Look, I watch at bit of test match rugby (too much some would say) and I think it's telling that pretty much every referee has the same reaction to Moore and that pretty much every referee doesn't have the same reaction to any other international captain.

Maybe the problem is with Moore and what he says, when he says it and the way he says it, rather than all the international referees. People commonly rate Owen as the best referee in world rugby and he shows the least tolerance for Moore.

NOTE: I don't necessarily think that all the members of the WR (World Rugby) referees panel are in the highly competent category. In fact, Poite isn't even in the bottom 50%.

 

[spikhaza]

I think Owens might have good technical skills as a referee but his attitude to the players belongs in a soviet politbureau. He's anti democratic, anti consultation.

I think that these referee's attitudes to (in particular our) players is at the very least elitist if not outright snobby. You should have to talk to the players, you should have to talk to the captain, you are not above the people that this game runs on.

I guess some people will differ with my opinion, but the best referee should be happy to go and enter the marketplace for ideas and justify their decision to the people, at the very least doing this through the captain. The attitude towards Moore, by the way, a representative of the Australian people, was one of pure rejection.

If someone rejects my representative, be it a Prime Minister, a Business Leader or a Captain of Australia, they lose all elements of my respect. If I was Stephen Moore I would now just refuse to acknowledge Romain Poite - if he's going to refuse to acknowledge me. If a referee refused to even acknowledge me as the captain of a country I would just take my team and walk off the field, the same way the USA or Australia would withdraw their ambassador to a country if they did the same to us.

Not to do is chamberlain level weak

 

[Teh Other Dave]

The referee is not the chairman of a tribunal, the speaker of the legislative assembly, or the commissioner of taxation. He or she is a sports adjudicator. They are making split second judgements in a complex environment, often whilst sprinting.

A rugby field is not a marketplace of ideas. There should not be hundreds of voices in the refs's ear, and the captain of a team does not have an inalienable right to discuss every aspect of the match. It is not amenable to negotiation. It is not a democracy. The referee wasn't elected. Players freely take to the field acknowledging that there are a set of laws to abide by. That includes Law 6(a)(5). Players also know that there are appropriate mechansims for dealing with officiating.

Futhermore, to say that Moore is a representstive of the Australian people is ridiculous. Try telling that to someone who couldn't care less about rugby. He's the captain of a sporting team. Suggesting that Moore ignore a match official is, well, stupid. It's not only childish, and churlish, but it's completely self defeating.

These rants show a distinct lack of perspective into what is a sporting fixture, not international diplomacy or business negotiation.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think Owens might have good technical skills as a referee but his attitude to the players belongs in a soviet politbureau. He's anti democratic, anti consultation.

Refereeing or umpiring sport is an exercise in authority not democracy. The referee/umpires are in charge and the players need to respect that and get on with it.

 

[mst]

If its Owens, we could always get Moore's mummy to sort Nigel out.

"Äre you being mean to my little Steven? His little fiend Michael just rang and said you were picking on him and it was not fair and you wont let him have his turn with the ball, also that you are letting some other boy called Kieran call him names."

 

[Gnostic]

There is a study somewhere (I read many moons ago) that on a basic psychology level somebody with a deep bass voice carries more authority and is able to garner more respect regardless of the subject and message than a person with a higher pitched voice.

Moore didn't get his nick name "Squeak" for having a velvet baritone and like most people under stress the voice goes to a higher pitch again. Tends to make one whiney.

Like it or not something as simple as this can have a significant effect.

 

[Quick Hands]

There is a study somewhere (I read many moons ago) that on a basic psychology level somebody with a deep bass voice carries more authority and is able to garner more respect regardless of the subject and message than a person with a higher pitched voice.

Moore didn't get his nick name "Squeak" for having a velvet baritone and like most people under stress the voice goes to a higher pitch again. Tends to make one whiney.

Like it or not something as simple as this can have a significant effect.

Particularly when they are speaking quietly and slowly. Body language and demeanour also come into it. Moore seems to mostly have an angry expression on his face, sometimes accompanied by hands on hips or arms waving. He's obviously passionate and displays his emotions - we need that on the field, maybe just not as the captain.

The best captains make their referee interactions conversational rather than adversarial.

 

[MungoMan]

The best captains make their referee interactions conversational rather than adversarial.

Dragging RL into the equation may annoy some folk; but even so, current Storm, Queensland and Strayan captain Cam Smith is almost unvaryingly conversational in his interactions with the whistle-bearers.

Insistent but polite, no sign of anger or stress in his voice or his body language and few references to things other than this or analagous incidents in this game. Most certainly, no nonsense as regards what happened last week.

That's just one version of what 'good' looks like. There are others.

None of those others in any way resemble Moore's approach.

 

[tragic]

Here's the narrative if you're interested.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/n...ng-for-alleged-eye-gouge-20160902-gr7a4w.html

 

[yourmatesam]

Dragging RL into the equation may annoy some folk; but even so, current Storm, Queensland and Strayan captain Cam Smith is almost unvaryingly conversational in his interactions with the whistle-bearers.

He's pretty impressive isn't he.