Australia v Argentina - 21 November, Newcastle

[Rebels3]

Rennie made a couple of howlers with his replacements. Tom Wright was the best backline player, not only winger, on the ground. Wilson was immense in defense. Why either of these was replaced instead of Koroibete and Hanigan is a mystery to me.

Talking wingers, I really think it's time to replace both Koroibete and Daugunu. They just don't seem to have rugby brains, just play on emotion and instinct and that lets them and the team down at critical times. I'd like to see Ramm and Wright as the wingers. Filipo unfortunately is an excellent Super player but looks to have no line breaking capability at test level.

I feel sick - Rob Simmons had his best ever game. Not outstanding but a whole lot better in general play than is his usual offering. Ned Hanigan otoh did very little in the game and should have been off instead of Wilson.

Ref was very ordinary but fairly even handed. His worst miss was a head high on Paisami about 35m out in front with a minute or two to play.

Unfortunately for the Brumbies clan the only backline player at serious risk of dropping out of the side in Banks. He just not offering anything

 

[Forcefield]

This game reminds me of that miserable night against Scotland in Newcastle all those years ago. All the territory, all the odds in our favour, and let down by a failure to take the points on offer. This is test match rugby. Every three points is a bit more pressure on the opposition. Every wasted 5 metres line-out causes them to grow another 2 inches. This is the mindset we need in order to succeed in the clutch stages of a World Cup.

We also need to stop that highly frustrating habit of giving up 3 points less than one minute after scoring down the other end.

 

[Slim 293]

Unfortunately for the Brumbies clan the only backline player at serious risk of dropping out of the side in Banks. He just not offering anything

Eh?

 

[Slim 293]

I have to agree with BR - Simmons was probably our best forward tonight.

Hodge and Paisami also going alright at 10-12......... Paisami especially.

Korobeite wasn’t having one of his best games and should’ve gone off instead of Wright...

Petaia made some great breaks in the first half, but needs to work on his decision making and passing the ball at times.

Hanigan gave away 6 points in ineffectual cleanouts and then turned the ball over in the last play.

I think McDermott was a bit hard by not getting another shot this week.

And again, what’s happened to Sio’s scrummaging this year........ the hinge came back in a big way in the second half.

 

[Slim 293]

I think Rennie likes the box-kicking, hence he was selected, he aint doing it for fun. I agree he had a poor (short) shift in execution.

I’m going to have to put on my Brumbies goggles, although to be fair he’s now a Rebel so to hell with him..............

But if you want a halfback for his box kick and all round reliability - Powell would be a big step up from Gordon.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Wobs* missed an opportunity to take control of the comp table: all three teams now have six points, first tie-breaker is points differential:

1. New Zealand +26
2. Argentina +10
3. Australia -36

* Edit: You could argue that Pumas did, too, but they have a game in hand & are unbeaten.

 

[Dan54]

I’m ok with the scratches . I grew up with them, as I’m sure many others here did. I’ll take 50 scratches for a fullback that gives a fuck.

Yep and never got a scratch when I wasn't in the way of the ball! It's the kicks or stomps that should be checked not a coule if scratches.

 

[Dan54]

Geez another test I enjoyed even with no tries etc! Once again a proper test match , both teams I thought gave it everything, I didn't think the Pumas would get back up after last week, but they played their game so bloody well. And I watched it as a complete neutral now I back in NZ, but loved the whole game, as did Mrs Dan54 and daughter, even son in law (an Aussie who lives here) enjoyed the contest! Somehow as I said when Pumas beat ABs last week, these results are not bad for World rugby.

 

[Spruce Moose]

I'm not sure I understand the hate towards Hooper here. Yes he had an off game but wasn't worst on ground or even close. He won us a penalty with smart play 5m out from the sticks and still worked his arse off.

Not taking the points I understand is stupid in first half but obviously easier in hindsight and maybe if Petaia or Koroibete scored those tries we'd be saying he was a genius. Also I'm a fan of his chat with ref before half time, we have been stung before by ref's resetting the YC penalty count at half time so he was in his right to ask(strongly) and discuss the warning to Pumas with the ref.

As for him not calming the team down. I didn't think the Wallabies were too bad, there were a couple stupid ones (BPA should know way better than that) but no one was over aggressive and I felt Pumas started most things. I have 0 problem with players backing/protecting their mates, shows they care for the shirt they're wearing.

In addition those calling for change in captain I would ask who is the replacement? I'm not sure anyone in the 15 today is guaranteed selection/80 minutes on the park every test other than Hooper.

 

[KOB1987]

Eh?

Rebels3 is right though. We need to play the next game with a test match structure, which means if JOC (James O'Connor) is unavailable Lolesio or Harrison have to play 10. We can get away with playing Hodge there as a contingency plan and he deserved a second crack last night, but it’s passed it’s expiry date and so has Banks, he’s just not up to test standard. Hodge has played well enough to retain a starting spot and 15 is where he should be, I’d go so far as to say he can emulate Chris Latham back there.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

If ever we had our best chance to win silverware after some lean years we blew it last night - we win last nights game then only had to win final dec 5 game to win tri nations. Now you would have to favour the darkness given superior points differential as hard to see Argentina beating all blacks next week at this point.

To actually put nz back in this contest is what really hurts from last nights draw...

Yet again we seem to find ways to not win by doing stupid things - which in this case was not taking penalty shots in first half to keep the scoreboard pressure. Argentina got back in the game because they always took the points on offer. Such a pity To’omua injured as he appears more a leader that as captain would not have made such a dumb mistake to not take points on offer. What is disappointing is hooper has made these same mistakes before as captain. Definitely not a fan of hooper as our long term captain. When To’omua fit and playing tests again he should replace hooper as captain imo.

 

[fatprop]

Petaia made some great breaks in the first half, but needs to work on his decision making and passing the ball at times.

He again demonstrated immense talent and same selfishness he regularly shows, passing is something that he does only in desperation, in contact, with one hand

This week he added hail Mary kicks

 

[fatprop]

If ever we had our best chance to win silverware after some lean years we blew it last night - we win last nights game then only had to win final dec 5 game to win tri nations. Now you would have to favour the darkness given superior points differential as hard to see Argentina beating all blacks next week at this point.

To actually put nz back in this contest is what really hurts from last nights draw.

Yet again we seem to find ways to not win by doing stupid things - which in this case was not taking penalty shots in first half to keep the scoreboard pressure. Argentina got back in the game because they always took the points on offer. Such a pity To’omua injured as he appears more a leader that as captain would not have made such a dumb mistake to not take points on offer. What is disappointing is hooper has made these same mistakes before as captain. Definitely not a fan of hooper as our long term captain. When To’omua fit and playing tests again he should replace hooper as captain imo.

Yeah, our teams are rewarded/encouraged to kick to the corner and "going for it" at all levels

Score board pressure is just not valued enough

 

[KOB1987]

If ever we had our best chance to win silverware after some lean years we blew it last night - we win last nights game then only had to win final dec 5 game to win tri nations. Now you would have to favour the darkness given superior points differential as hard to see Argentina beating all blacks next week at this point.

To actually put nz back in this contest is what really hurts from last nights draw.

Yet again we seem to find ways to not win by doing stupid things - which in this case was not taking penalty shots in first half to keep the scoreboard pressure. Argentina got back in the game because they always took the points on offer. Such a pity To’omua injured as he appears more a leader that as captain would not have made such a dumb mistake to not take points on offer. What is disappointing is hooper has made these same mistakes before as captain. Definitely not a fan of hooper as our long term captain. When To’omua fit and playing tests again he should replace hooper as captain imo.

I understand the decisions to not take the points as we were trying to force the yellow card. Those decisions should have been vindicated when the Argentinian doofus was holding on to the ball in the ruck late in the first half but for some reason he wasn’t binned. We finally got the card soon after resumption of play but then went to sleep and they outscored us despite being a man down. That was the failure right there.

 

[KOB1987]

Yeah, our teams are rewarded/encouraged to kick to the corner and "going for it" at all levels

Score board pressure is just not valued enough

And yes I agree with this.

 

[Spruce Moose]

Those decisions should have been vindicated when the Argentinian doofus was holding on to the ball in the ruck late in the first half but for some reason he wasn’t binned. We finally got the card soon after resumption of play but then went to sleep and they outscored us despite being a man down. That was the failure right there.

They didn't outscore us with a man down. We got 3 points to 0 in those 10 mins (Sanchez missed) then another 3 a few minutes after they got 15 men. I agree though that we didn't dominate those 10.

Second, totally agree about the Pumas 2 not getting a YC immediately. If you're saying BPA wasn't excused for not hearing the ref then how can he be allowed to just continue to hold tight onto the ball with the ref yelling "let go" and "penalty" plus White hitting him. That was probably the part when I got the angriest during the whole match and thought was very poor reffing.

 

[Pfitzy]

Argentina didn't defend well at all for the first 35 minutes, and we failed to capitalised despite looking dominant.

That's the game right there. Could have had 2 tries and then played like Argentina: force a penalty, march upfield, knock over points.

Some of Hooper's calls were wrong I thought, particularly in terms of trying to force a yellow card. I say that knowing Williams isn't the kind of ref to make a decision like that. Or at all.

BUT you can't blame Williams or Hooper for shitty lineout throwing at critical times, or stupid shoulder charges well after the whistle to reverse penalties (BPA). Or dumb flick passes from the sideline back inside to a waiting Argentine winger (Koroibete). And shit house ball retention going into contact 5m out or multiple failures on the high ball (Banks).

Hooper CAN be blamed for taking a guy out past the ball.

Our scrum had them on skates and our maul was going to be a key attacking weapon as the game wore on, then suddenly both teams replace a prop and it changed - Tupou should have been given another 5 minutes to rip in BUT like I said: Argie defence had settled by then.

Sio looked short of a run and got penalised at two scrums in a row - Bell should have come on earlier.

Hodge was good. Unfortunately as Argentina's defense built into the game, he got more lateral and our attack was picked off.

Philip had a big game.

Williams is still a shit ref.

 

[Joe Blow]

It’s a test match against quality opposition. Just take the points as they become available. If Hodge has two or three more opportunities in that opening quarter, which were there for the taking, we are ahead by another 6-9 points.
Tough for the Argies to come back from that. They never looked like scoring a try.

 

[TSR]

Interesting call on Hooper. I thought he actually could do that under the laws.

Listening to Williams he did penalise Hooper for taking him past the ball (he didn’t actually take him that far), he got him for cleaning a guy who wasn’t part of the breakdown because there wasn’t one. But he was part of the tackle, which Williams seemed to subsequently admit to Hooper. As far as I understood the rules he is therefore fair game.

Any refs on here want to give me their view?

I don’t mind in any case - if the ref got it wrong at full speed so be it. Just interested on what the correct ruling is.

 

[KOB1987]

The silver lining to all of this is that it has invigorated an interest in rugby while there is little competition for eyes. The best outcome next week is that either team wins a nail biter without a bonus point, and then we need to put the Argies to the sword to take the silverware.