Australia v British & Irish Lions, 3rd Test (Sydney)

[Richo]

Amazing how that last 25 odd minutes changed the world, the Lions supporters around me thought we were going to rollover them after those 6 points in the second half, nails were being chewed.

Instead the team is crap, with various units to be scapegoats.

Forget the last 25. Benny A is going to have a hard time coming back from those first 24 minutes.

 

[wamberal]

Amazing how that last 25 odd minutes changed the world, the Lions supporters around me thought we were going to rollover them after those 6 points in the second half, nails were being chewed.

Instead the team is crap, with various units to be scapegoats.

For me, the really frustrating aspect is the dreadful execution by allegedly star players of very basic skills. Beale's kicking out of hand, for example.

We could easily have had the series won before Saturday. But the last twenty minutes is what we will all remember. And so we should. That is when the best performers stand up and are counted.

 

[Ash]

Amazing how that last 25 odd minutes changed the world, the Lions supporters around me thought we were going to rollover them after those 6 points in the second half, nails were being chewed.

Instead the team is crap, with various units to be scapegoats.

You mean the only 15 to 20 minutes we were really on top in the game? Rarely do teams stay in control the entire 80. The Wallabies did well to put on 13 unanswered points before being blown off the park.....for the second time in the game.

Fact is, the first 35 minutes happened, and the last 25 minutes happened, and those "units" were not good for more than this game.

I hate to say it, but many on here were right in saying Beale should not have been picked, that JOC (James O'Connor) should not have been at 10, hell, even that Barnes should not have been at 15 with the limited rugby he has played this year. If fucking average pundits could call it (look at how many on here said before the seires that Beale was a poor call and JOC (James O'Connor) was a poor call for starters), how the hell could Deans not get it right?

I will say this: Deans selections (both his stubbornness and favourites) cost us the series. Forget the last game, those first two games our forwards had the ascendancy. All we needed was a competent backline. Instead, we didn't even have rookie flyhalf at 10, we had an outside back with no vision or game management at 10. Squandering ruck ascendancy with an incompetent backline should be heresy for a nation like Australia with a proud history of backline play.

When you're a national team coach, and you take gambles on guys like JOC (James O'Connor) at 10; Beale back from rehab with no real rugby for months; selecting quite a few guys with limited rugby for the year in that first test that couldn't crack their provincial starting XV; and so on for a huge one in 12 year test series, you better hope they pay off, because if they don't, expect to get the arse.

 

[Blue]

I agree but I don't like it.

Not all refs are as bad as Poite though and if a ref can't make decisions based on current evidence rather than history then I would suggest they should not be called 'professional' and should not be paid for their work.

Disagree.

Go back and watch the replay. He got the bulk of the decisions spot on.

The Wob scrum got mullered. Just accept it and move on.

 

[Blue]

Not sure if you've understood my point given your example.

I don't think anyone did frankly.

Don't come and talk to me about class and grace if you are going to start your point by pulling something from your arse.

If you sling mud you need to expect to get some coming back.

 

[daz]

My only observation from the game is simply this:

I was super-excited in the lead-up, and it took a whole 1 minute of game time to wipe that feeling out.

I have never spent a more miserable 80 minutes as a spectator at a Wallabies game in my life.

 

[I like to watch]

When you're a national team coach, and you take gambles on guys like JOC (James O'Connor) at 10; Beale back from rehab with no real rugby for months; selecting quite a few guys with limited rugby for the year in that first test that couldn't crack their provincial starting XV; and so on for a huge one in 12 year test series, you better hope they pay off, because if they don't, expect to get the arse.

The problem I have with this, is that his alternative options had just as many question marks.
I don't get the urgency to sack him.
I didn't agree with the way he was re appointed,and I don't want his successor being appointed in the same manner.
There should be a proper and transparent process to select the future Wallabies coach.
If he is to go, the new guy should pick the squad for the EOY tour.

 

[Gurz]

I don't think anyone did frankly.

Don't come and talk to me about class and grace if you are going to start your point by pulling something from your arse.

If you sling mud you need to expect to get some coming back.

A saffa sticking up for the ref...??? ...how very unusual....

Must say though the Frenchy didn't do too bad a job with exception of one or two things. He wasn't the cause of the demise - in my books, and history will show poor selections was THE MAIN reason for things not going well...

 

[Braveheart81]

A saffa sticking up for the ref.??? .how very unusual..

Must say though the Frenchy didn't do too bad a job with exception of one or two things. He wasn't the cause of the demise - in my books, and history will show poor selections was THE MAIN reason for things not going well.

I'd put most of our loss down to the players.

We were right back in the game early in the second half and then catastrophically fell apart in the space of minutes.

From about the 50th to the 70th minute, the Wallabies were diabolical. I don't think the coach has much to do with going from 19-16 to 41-16 down in that period of time.

 

[wamberal]

A saffa sticking up for the ref.??? .how very unusual..

Must say though the Frenchy didn't do too bad a job with exception of one or two things. He wasn't the cause of the demise - in my books, and history will show poor selections was THE MAIN reason for things not going well.

So who would you have picked?

 

[daz]

From about the 50th to the 70th minute, the Wallabies were diabolical. I don't think the coach has much to do with going from 19-16 to 41-16 down in that period of time.

He does if he picked the players in positions that decreased our chances of playing cohesive rugby.

 

[Gurz]

So who would you have picked?

Not JOC (James O'Connor) @ 10 - and at the very least QC (Quade Cooper) on the bench

 

[Braveheart81]

He does if he picked the players in positions that decreased our chances of playing cohesive rugby.

These are largely the same players that lost the first test by 2 points, won the second test by a point and fought their way back from 19-3 down to be 19-16 down.

If ever there is a time where the players have to cop the blame for what happened, surely it is here.

 

[Gurz]

These are largely the same players that lost the first test by 2 points, won the second test by a point and fought their way back from 19-3 down to be 19-16 down.

If ever there is a time where the players have to cop the blame for what happened, surely it is here.

But seriously you cant defend the poor kicking and passing from your supposed 'play makers' - Every champion rugby team has got a champion 5/8 - its undeniable. Why choose an outside back as your main playmaker when the country had at least 2 better options in To'omua and QC (Quade Cooper) playing IN position.

Factor in too that a game @ Suncorp has got be worth an extra 10pts to the home side...........!

 

[Ash]

The problem I have with this, is that his alternative options had just as many question marks.
I don't get the urgency to sack him.
I didn't agree with the way he was re appointed,and I don't want his successor being appointed in the same manner.
There should be a proper and transparent process to select the future Wallabies coach.
If he is to go, the new guy should pick the squad for the EOY tour.

Disagree 100% that the alternatives had as many or more question marks.

At 10? To'omua or Cooper were both much less controversial options than JOC (James O'Connor). Most of the opposition to Cooper comes from irrational Cooper hate or a more balanced view that Cooper makes too many errors for test football. You know what you get with Cooper so you can plan to include him with the right game plan and take the errors, or take To'omua and more territory orientated game plan. (I realise you are a Cooper hater, so don't agree with me, but frankly taking the effective incumbent prior to his injury, warts and all, is less a gamble than a guy in JOC (James O'Connor)'s situation.) No doubt Deans' personal situation with Cooper ruled Cooper out from the get go.

JOC (James O'Connor) was just about the worst option, especially as JOC (James O'Connor) played poorly at 10 for the Rebels during the Super 15 season. None of the vision at 10, none of the game management abilities, no ability to link with his outside backs, and worse tactical kicking (although arguably better clearing kicks). All of this shown in his games for the Rebels at 10 this year, so why anyone expected different for the Wallabies is beyond me.

In the end, Cooper, To'omua and Foley all had better games as 10s vs the BILs than JOC (James O'Connor), and Deans no doubt watched them all do it, too. I also have no doubt that Deans is too stubborn to admit they did. In my mind the biggest selection issues with Cooper were caused by Deans himself, who gave excuses all year as to why Cooper would not be picked.

Beale? No-one would've batted an eye lid if Beale wasn't selected, or blamed Deans for not selecting Beale. Deans put himself in a losing situation if Beale didn't perform. It was a pure gamble on a guy with an alcohol problem just out of rehab, a guy who had barely played in months due to injury and suspension due to his alcohol issues. In the end, Beale made as many or more mistakes than Cooper would have anyway.

McCabe was a favourite pick pure and simple. Horne, for example, was a better pick for the bench as he had shown better form all year and had actually played a lot more, including starting for his province.

Barnes at fullback was the least controversial, but still not a great selection in many's (including my own) eyes.

Folau at fullback, JOC (James O'Connor) at right wing playing a second fullback role, To'omua or Cooper at 10, Beale left playing club rugby in Sydney to rehab. edit: I'll even put Barnes on the bench, where he made huge difference to the Tahs in the second half but stank when he started. There you go; selections done without the controversy and a shitload less questions, the only real one being Folau at fullback.

In my eyes Deans gambled on JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Barnes, McCabe and so on, and lost. No doubt Deans (and some here) didn't see them as a gamble, but a gamble they were.

Agree that the replacement should not be rushed. There's really only a two horse race for head coach, both coaching locally, so there's no reason a decision cannot be made prior to the RC. The support staff should be carefully put together over the rest of this year and first half of next year.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't get the urgency to sack him.

We need a new start.
We need to see that the trend of the last few years is being addressed.
We being the rugby loving public of Australia.
Discussion needs to move away from the proven inadequacies of the coach to the game and the players. We need a change to give us something positive to talk about.
I, like you, disapproved of the process by which he was reappointed and I would like to see a line ruled under that time in our history ASAP.
It would be nice to talk about selection for EOYT without the baggage of the preconceived, if not misconceived, ideas of the incumbent being added as a rider to every selection proposition - i.e. "X should be in the team but Deans doesn't like his sister so that wont happen".
Maybe its not Deans at all - maybe we just need a change to let us dream of what is possible.

 

[Braveheart81]

But seriously you cant defend the poor kicking and passing from your supposed 'play makers' - Every champion rugby team has got a champion 5/8 - its undeniable. Why choose an outside back as your main playmaker when the country had at least 2 better options in To'omua and QC (Quade Cooper) playing IN position.

Factor in too that a game @ Suncorp has got be worth an extra 10pts to the home side.....!

I'm not defending them at all.

In fact, I'm doing the opposite. I'm laying all the blame on the players.

Also, the choice of 10 had no influence on us conceding 3 tries in a 15 minute period. Our team fell apart on the field, pure and simple.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Forget the last 25. Benny A is going to have a hard time coming back from those first 24 minutes.

They'll be waiting for him on the EOYT!
Havent we been down this road before?

 

[Blue]

A saffa sticking up for the ref.??? .how very unusual..

Must say though the Frenchy didn't do too bad a job with exception of one or two things. He wasn't the cause of the demise - in my books, and history will show poor selections was THE MAIN reason for things not going well.

There is a massive chasm between sticking up for a ref or simply stating fact. I have no interest in sticking up for a French ref in a test that doesn't involve SA. I don't like to Frogs all too much and I would have preferred the Lions to lose because we'll never fucking hear the end of it now. Trust me I still know people who carry on about when they beat the boks years ago as if it was the most defining moment in the history of the universe.

Poite got played a little but it is oh so easy when your scrum dominates. You can milk it.

In any case, Australian fans have taken ref whinging to a never before seen level this Super rugby season (fronted by the Rebel and Force choirs). The bleating on this forum after every Aus team loss has been impressive. We have been thoroughly outdone in this department. An accoloade I am delighted to pass on. It was fun while it lasted.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm not defending them at all.

In fact, I'm doing the opposite. I'm laying all the blame on the players.

Also, the choice of 10 had no influence on us conceding 3 tries in a 15 minute period. Our team fell apart on the field, pure and simple.

That assumes that the kicking tactic was either poorly executed or misunderstood. If neil Jenkins can get on there to help 0.5p with his kicks have we got no one who can go on and say to Genia/JOC (James O'Connor)/Beale "guys can we keep it away from their back 3 - or at least make them run for it"?
With attention span of this generation that person may need to be on before every set piece but did it happen even once?